Hot and Dry Weather

UGUIDE said:
Here was my main point. This story made national news https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...drought-conditions-affect-pheasant-population.

Every pheasant hunter with a South Dakota pheasant hunting plan, intent or interest got the news. It was bad news. Bad news travels at the speed of light. News originated out of Pierre. Hmm.

One of my outfitters just texted me that sky opened up a dropped an inch twenty on their farm (1.20"). Huge beneficial impact. Very localized weather.

You could have absolutely drought busting rains and I can assure you it would not make the national news (drought is over!!!!).

The bad news is akin to announcing an oil slick is coming ashore on the gulf coast. Pheasants need $$$. NOT GOOD.
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Guess there was no "Factual Evidence" in that news release to support that the drought effects pheasants? :)
 
UGUIDE said:
Here was my main point. This story made national news https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...drought-conditions-affect-pheasant-population.

Every pheasant hunter with a South Dakota pheasant hunting plan, intent or interest got the news. It was bad news. Bad news travels at the speed of light. News originated out of Pierre. Hmm.

One of my outfitters just texted me that sky opened up a dropped an inch twenty on their farm (1.20"). Huge beneficial impact. Very localized weather.

You could have absolutely drought busting rains and I can assure you it would not make the national news (drought is over!!!!).
In 5 days we had 4 rains that totaled a little over 3 inches of rain. That will make a big difference in cover. It might not have much effect on total bird numbers unless there are some late hatchers.
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haymaker said:
In 5 days we had 4 rains that totaled a little over 3 inches of rain. That will make a big difference in cover. It might not have much effect on total bird numbers unless there are some late hatchers.
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From my SD Ringneck book you get the impression that good cover produces birds. I tend to agree.

One thought I had recently is the ability of the hen to assess survival conditions for her brood and determining to abandon the nest or not. It takes about 15 days to lay all the eggs and another 25 days to incubate them to hatch. Another few days to get them all hatched and moved to a suitable feeding area.

The book suggests that if there is nest or brood failure anywhere along this timelime the hen will attempt to renest.

The book talks about temps on the cool side delaying incubation and hatching timeline but it has no info as to affects when temps are in the high side or issues due to lack of moisture.

This might explain some of the pre laying behavior some outfitters are seeing where there is 6-7 hens with a lone rooster in mid July like you would normally seeing prior to egg laying in May. If hens had a brood or nest with eggs you would not see that.

If a hen was on a nest and conditions were such that she saw there would be nothing for her brood to eat (no insects due to lack of moisture) is it possible she would determine to abandon her nest and renest when conditions are more favorable?

I have yet to come across any biological or factual data that indicates that excessive drought or heat contributes to nest or brood failure. One consideration is we know the hen can warm the eggs during cooler periods but what about the need to cool the eggs when conditions are extreme?
 
Look at the historical pheasant data that GFP has available on its website...you will see certain years where pheasant #'s are markedly different from one year to the next. we know that they can rebound drastically in just a year, given the right weather conditions (2003), but it also shows that they can drop severely in just a year as well. They dropped 75% from 1935 to 1936, for example. I would hope that nature worked so efficiently, and that hens knew what the state of the insect hatch was going to be weeks out in order to give her a cue as to whether she should abandon a clutch of eggs...but that would surprise me. But I am not a biologist. Maybe this does happen. over the past 10 years I have seen dove sized pheasants on opening weekend more than once, suggesting that nesting was happening in late august, which tells us that hens probably attempted to nest 3 times or more...my memory tells me that these were very wet years. In the area I hunt, it seems like you can set your watch to monsoon-like rains during the first half of june...happened about 4-6 times in the past 8-10 years. Most of those years the local farmer who takes care of my land couldn't get food plots planted until very late June or early July...too wet. so yes, I can see where nests got washed out or had to be abandoned, and the process started over. Maybe a predator destroyed a clutch and she had to start over. I tend to think a hen will react to events that already happened, but that it is unlikely she will make decisions based on what will be weeks out. But that is just me. I have hunted the same piece of ground for over 25 years...ground that hasn't been drastically different as far as the habitat is concerned. I watch the weather like a hawk, I talk to farmers year round, I get out there several times a year during the off-season. I would be VERY confident stating that in my opinion, based on empirical data, periods of prolonged hot and dry weather negatively affect pheasant chicks, and the resulting huntable population of birds. Having said that, I don't have NEARLY the experience that UGUIDE does as it pertains to pheasant habitat. but I am enough of a "pheasant nerd" that i spend a good bit of time on the old farmers almanac and look at historical weather info for certain zip codes during the june/july periods for lots of different years and I would tell you that in the really good and really bad years there are certain conditions that tend to occur....kind of a "blinding flash of the obvious" in my opinion. Now I know for sure that in 2012 I was sitting in an insurance continuing ed session and i got a phone call from a farmer around july 23rd, and he wanted to know if i would allow him to take hay from my CRP, as the USDA announced that day that our county was eligible for emergency haying and grazing. That would tell us that it was a pretty severe drought, and had been during the nesting period that summer. As I recall, hunting was pretty weak that fall, not many young birds. Anyone else recall how 2012 was, assuming they were impacted by the drought? I don't keep journals, but I should. I do recall bird #'s being weak for about 2 years thereafter as well, despite the gfp estimates to the contrary for our area. They were better in '15 & '16. Now, keep in mind, habitat was declining during that whole period, so I am keeping that in mind as i say these things...but I tend to hunt areas where the habitat was fairly consistent from one year to the next.
 
benelli-banger said:
Look at the historical pheasant data that GFP has available on its website...you will see certain years where pheasant #'s are markedly different from one year to the next. we know that they can rebound drastically in just a year, given the right weather conditions (2003), but it also shows that they can drop severely in just a year as well. They dropped 75% from 1935 to 1936, for example. I would hope that nature worked so efficiently, and that hens knew what the state of the insect hatch was going to be weeks out in order to give her a cue as to whether she should abandon a clutch of eggs...but that would surprise me. But I am not a biologist. Maybe this does happen. over the past 10 years I have seen dove sized pheasants on opening weekend more than once, suggesting that nesting was happening in late august, which tells us that hens probably attempted to nest 3 times or more...my memory tells me that these were very wet years. In the area I hunt, it seems like you can set your watch to monsoon-like rains during the first half of june...happened about 4-6 times in the past 8-10 years. Most of those years the local farmer who takes care of my land couldn't get food plots planted until very late June or early July...too wet. so yes, I can see where nests got washed out or had to be abandoned, and the process started over. Maybe a predator destroyed a clutch and she had to start over. I tend to think a hen will react to events that already happened, but that it is unlikely she will make decisions based on what will be weeks out. But that is just me. I have hunted the same piece of ground for over 25 years...ground that hasn't been drastically different as far as the habitat is concerned. I watch the weather like a hawk, I talk to farmers year round, I get out there several times a year during the off-season. I would be VERY confident stating that in my opinion, based on empirical data, periods of prolonged hot and dry weather negatively affect pheasant chicks, and the resulting huntable population of birds. Having said that, I don't have NEARLY the experience that UGUIDE does as it pertains to pheasant habitat. but I am enough of a "pheasant nerd" that i spend a good bit of time on the old farmers almanac and look at historical weather info for certain zip codes during the june/july periods for lots of different years and I would tell you that in the really good and really bad years there are certain conditions that tend to occur....kind of a "blinding flash of the obvious" in my opinion. Now I know for sure that in 2012 I was sitting in an insurance continuing ed session and i got a phone call from a farmer around july 23rd, and he wanted to know if i would allow him to take hay from my CRP, as the USDA announced that day that our county was eligible for emergency haying and grazing. That would tell us that it was a pretty severe drought, and had been during the nesting period that summer. As I recall, hunting was pretty weak that fall, not many young birds. Anyone else recall how 2012 was, assuming they were impacted by the drought? I don't keep journals, but I should. I do recall bird #'s being weak for about 2 years thereafter as well, despite the gfp estimates to the contrary for our area. They were better in '15 & '16. Now, keep in mind, habitat was declining during that whole period, so I am keeping that in mind as i say these things...but I tend to hunt areas where the habitat was fairly consistent from one year to the next.
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Since I have been in business I have experienced droughts in 76 80 88 06 12 and 17. I have not studied the numbers but I can tell you that 88 affected numbers of birds. 06 we had good bird numbers but that was mostly carryover from 05 when we had great numbers. 12 was very hot and dry. It boils down to moderation, extremes are seldom a good thing.
 
I spent some time on the gfp website this morning...one thing it said was that chicks eat insects almost exclusively for the first 8 weeks that they are alive...so, a chick can hatch and die pretty quickly if there are few insects...because that hen had a chick that hatched, she will not renest, I am told. So 3-5" of rain (like my area got last week) will not help if June and the first 25 days of July were hot and dry. I was out there for a wedding July 14th and 15th and talked to mailmen, farmers, a vet clinic employee that drives 20 miles one way to work, several hired men, etc, and the consensus is that there are few broods being seen, and when they are, there are few chicks per brood. The last 2 summers I was getting more positive feedback. The ground looked pretty dry...and we are not even in a part of the state that is considered "drought"...we are "abnormally dry" (prior to the rain last week). Again, not many dewy mornings had been reported...no water in the dugouts...no water, tough survival for chicks. It will be a fun season, they all are. There are always birds, especially this year, when winter was almost non-existent. Hunting will get better as the birds bunch up. But it probably won't be like 2015, when my partner and I started on opening day on some walk-in land, and he killed 5 roosters by 12:08 pm...a bunch of birds moved from nearby corn to the grass we were in, landing within 100 yards of my partner...he and his 3 labs wandered that way, and he got 5 of our 6 birds in about 3 minutes! He is a great shot and has great dogs...he went 5 for 5 and found them all...all young roosters. That will never happen again!!!
 
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benelli-banger said:
Look at the historical pheasant data that GFP has available on its website...you will see certain years where pheasant #'s are markedly different from one year to the next. we know that they can rebound drastically in just a year, given the right weather conditions (2003), but it also shows that they can drop severely in just a year as well. They dropped 75% from 1935 to 1936, for example. I would hope that nature worked so efficiently, and that hens knew what the state of the insect hatch was going to be weeks out in order to give her a cue as to whether she should abandon a clutch of eggs...but that would surprise me. But I am not a biologist. Maybe this does happen. over the past 10 years I have seen dove sized pheasants on opening weekend more than once, suggesting that nesting was happening in late august, which tells us that hens probably attempted to nest 3 times or more...my memory tells me that these were very wet years. In the area I hunt, it seems like you can set your watch to monsoon-like rains during the first half of june...happened about 4-6 times in the past 8-10 years. Most of those years the local farmer who takes care of my land couldn't get food plots planted until very late June or early July...too wet. so yes, I can see where nests got washed out or had to be abandoned, and the process started over. Maybe a predator destroyed a clutch and she had to start over. I tend to think a hen will react to events that already happened, but that it is unlikely she will make decisions based on what will be weeks out. But that is just me. I have hunted the same piece of ground for over 25 years...ground that hasn't been drastically different as far as the habitat is concerned. I watch the weather like a hawk, I talk to farmers year round, I get out there several times a year during the off-season. I would be VERY confident stating that in my opinion, based on empirical data, periods of prolonged hot and dry weather negatively affect pheasant chicks, and the resulting huntable population of birds. Having said that, I don't have NEARLY the experience that UGUIDE does as it pertains to pheasant habitat. but I am enough of a "pheasant nerd" that i spend a good bit of time on the old farmers almanac and look at historical weather info for certain zip codes during the june/july periods for lots of different years and I would tell you that in the really good and really bad years there are certain conditions that tend to occur....kind of a "blinding flash of the obvious" in my opinion. Now I know for sure that in 2012 I was sitting in an insurance continuing ed session and i got a phone call from a farmer around july 23rd, and he wanted to know if i would allow him to take hay from my CRP, as the USDA announced that day that our county was eligible for emergency haying and grazing. That would tell us that it was a pretty severe drought, and had been during the nesting period that summer. As I recall, hunting was pretty weak that fall, not many young birds. Anyone else recall how 2012 was, assuming they were impacted by the drought? I don't keep journals, but I should. I do recall bird #'s being weak for about 2 years thereafter as well, despite the gfp estimates to the contrary for our area. They were better in '15 & '16. Now, keep in mind, habitat was declining during that whole period, so I am keeping that in mind as i say these things...but I tend to hunt areas where the habitat was fairly consistent from one year to the next.
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I just saw a brood of 6. They were smaller in size than any previous broods that I have seen, whatever that means.
 
Renesting

The key to renesting is what happened the first time,
If the hen had a brood and all chicks died from heat, lack of food or water she WIll NOT renest.
If eggs in nest did not hatch or nest was destroyed by predators or farm equipment she will renest however the number of eggs will be less.
 
Hockeybob said:
The key to renesting is what happened the first time,
If the hen had a brood and all chicks died from heat, lack of food or water she WIll NOT renest.
If eggs in nest did not hatch or nest was destroyed by predators or farm equipment she will renest however the number of eggs will be less.
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correct. that is my understanding as well.
 
Hockeybob said:
The key to renesting is what happened the first time,
If the hen had a brood and all chicks died from heat, lack of food or water she WIll NOT renest.
If eggs in nest did not hatch or nest was destroyed by predators or farm equipment she will renest however the number of eggs will be less.
Click to expand...

The book and study (WI, Gates , 1966) states that "Rarely, a hen will renest if the brood is lost in the first few days after hatch".
 
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benelli-banger said:
Now I know for sure that in 2012 I was sitting in an insurance continuing ed session and i got a phone call from a farmer around july 23rd, and he wanted to know if i would allow him to take hay from my CRP, as the USDA announced that day that our county was eligible for emergency haying and grazing. That would tell us
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I can cut my hay this year (but will not) under the same reasons as 2012 drought but it is to help out those in tougher areas. The cows around my place are wading thru high cotton.

For me the surprise about the 2012 drought was the impact it had in bird numbers in 2013. Who'd a thunk it?
 
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Rained here in NE South Dakota over the past 24 hours. Wheat harvest just started, not that there is a lot of wheat around this area. We have been seeing chicks of two different sizes, partridge size and Robin size. CRP was being cut about a week ago. So with the rain we will see how much cover is baled up and how far the farmers will bale into the sloughs. I am hoping for the best. With the lack of rain this year the food plots are almost all weeds, SDviking
 
Some of the sloughs getting cut or burned this year with things being dry could actually turn into a good thing in the long term. Some of these sloughs are so thick and blown over that no wildlife will use them. Short term loss vs long term gain.
 
I keep hearing of more and more CRP that is being hayed off due to the drought. And yesterday I was taking my dog to a GPA for some exercise and training and when I arrived I found that all the grass had been cut and baled. I wonder if there are other GPA's that this is also happening to. If they are cutting some of the GPA's and a lot of the CRP it's going to make for some really tough hunting this fall.
 
Dakotazeb said:
I keep hearing of more and more CRP that is being hayed off due to the drought. And yesterday I was taking my dog to a GPA for some exercise and training and when I arrived I found that all the grass had been cut and baled. I wonder if there are other GPA's that this is also happening to. If they are cutting some of the GPA's and a lot of the CRP it's going to make for some really tough hunting this fall.
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I completely understand that farmers have to do what they can to provide for their livestock and while on one hand it is good that the State is allowing those areas to be cut to help the farmers, reading comments about public land cover being removed, especially in a year where the bird numbers will probably be down, unfortunately helps in making the decision for an out of stater like me who has to hunt public lands on whether to make the trip this fall. It's never been all about killing birds for me, but I'm not real interested in walking around public land stubble fields either.
 
Lots of CRP being hayed off. A buddy rode through Miller/Highmore area and checked about a half dozen public areas, all but one were completely hayed. Said he didn't see anything but hundreds of hay bales. Also talked with friend in Redfield area, he said most farms haying all CRP & sloughs. Gonna be a TOUGH season.
 
I'm telling everyone to cancel their trips. Pheasant hunting in South Dakota is worthless. In addition to that I recommend selling your dogs and gear too because there is no hope for the future.

I guess rain does not impact drought at all since no positive news out there.
 
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