Well Said A5
Hot and Dry Weather
- Thread starter Dakotazeb
- Start date
Well Said A5
UGUIDE
Active member
Exactly. I have yet to see any factual objective data that suggests drought is related to lower bird numbers.
We have had a decline in CRP acres over last 10 years to tune of 500 million +. How can one build any trends of weather impact when habitat impact is so huge?
GFP forecast recently off Winter snowfall amounts and April/May rainfall amounts and low temps. High amounts in either leads to a more down forecast but even that is very regional and highly subjective.
The speculators will say "oh we have drought in the state so numbers will be impacted". Really? That's like saying its been hot and cold and we need more rain and numbers have been impacted.
There's simply too many variables to second guess pheasants on. I was out doing habitat work the last few days and am seeing good bird numbers but have no idea how that relates to fall harvest game bag averages at season end.
There is another factor here. In a drought there is less habitat, the cover is shorter and the competition for what has grown is greater. The hunters that come here this fall will not find the cover as good as last year, even though I planted more acres for that purpose some of that is just comming up now instead of a month ago. Therefore pheasants are more vulnerable to predators.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I think it is pretty obvious that a may/june that is really wet and cold isn't good for chicks...same for really hot and dry. It is a bit like Goldilock's porridge...not too hot, not too cold...just right! I do recall pretty vividly the poor hunting in my area in 2002; very hot and dry that summer. A woman I know who cleans birds for extra $ told me she saw VERY few birds of the year that fall that she cleaned. Funny thing, I remember VIVIDLY coming back from a Willie Nelson concert in Mitchell in late August of 2003, and I stopped to grab a SD newspaper on my way home...the brood count survey was in that paper, and it was a record for SD! Just one year later...keep in mind there was still LOTS of crp then. I just came back from a wedding there last weekend, spoke to lots of farmers...their take is not great overall... compared to mid-summer reports from last year, for example. Not many dewy mornings, not much, if any standing water either, especially back in mid-June. We'll see!!!! Good thing SD GFP releases so many birds right before the opener!!!!!
UGUIDE
Active member
While we can discuss weather impacts till the cows come home, realizing and accepting the 3 biggest impacts to bird numbers and doing something about it is more better.
1. CRP enrollment is down over 500,000 acres in the state of the high mark. Contact your state Rep and request 45 million acre Cap in the next Farm Bill. Current bill expires Sept 2018. Right now we are at 24 Million acre cap and if you walked into your FSA office and wanted to enroll some CRP you could not. I have never seen that even be possible!!
2. The Roundup Ready Corn and Soybean System has replaced small grains in our cropping systems and it started east of us a long time ago. GFP has graphs supporting this huge impact. Thank God there is a soil health movement that threatens to impact this positively.
3. $8 corn converted a ton of grass acres in the state to crop acres. 2 Million acres since 2007 I believe. Some of this are going back to grass. Item #1 and the increase in cap impacts this one.
1. CRP enrollment is down over 500,000 acres in the state of the high mark. Contact your state Rep and request 45 million acre Cap in the next Farm Bill. Current bill expires Sept 2018. Right now we are at 24 Million acre cap and if you walked into your FSA office and wanted to enroll some CRP you could not. I have never seen that even be possible!!
2. The Roundup Ready Corn and Soybean System has replaced small grains in our cropping systems and it started east of us a long time ago. GFP has graphs supporting this huge impact. Thank God there is a soil health movement that threatens to impact this positively.
3. $8 corn converted a ton of grass acres in the state to crop acres. 2 Million acres since 2007 I believe. Some of this are going back to grass. Item #1 and the increase in cap impacts this one.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
sure, that is right Chris, but the title of the thread is "hot and dry weather"....not, "what can we do to increase bird numbers?". I am all for your goal of more birds...I do constructive things towards that end. but we have had an exceptionally hot and dry summer in much of pheasant country...I am interested in this topic, what guys are seeing out there, what the impact is/could be, etc...just a simple thread, kind of like we are standing around drinking a beer and bs'ng...hope I am not overreacting.
Well here is what I am seeing. I have seen three different broods, none of them large. The chicks are good sized and probably more visible because of short cover. We had 4 rains in 5 days totaling over 3 inches. That will change some things cover wise here. The cover crops that I planted a month ago are starting to emerge. I think there has been damage done that this will not fix but it will help.
If you want to know if hot and dry affects bird numbers, ask anyone who hunted the Pierre grasslands for prairie grouse last year, ask anyone who hunted the Valentine NE area for prairie grouse in 2014 & 15, ask anyone who hunted Northern Nevada, southeast Oregon or S.W. Idaho for chukar and Huns in '14 & '15. Or I can tell you, it sucks.
UGUIDE
Active member
My position is that the title of the thread is similar to saying "Normal weather in South Dakota is affecting birds". I have heard our hunters say that they believe some of the habitat on our farms is managed so well that it mitigates much of the weather extremes that can impact bird production.
I'm saying that some will be greatly impacted but others will ride the tide because they have seen drought and seen high prices and planned and managed accordingly. The people that farm my ground farm a completely different system than those adjacent to me. Optimal soil management can hold tremendous water reserves that feed crops, bugs and birds when the rain is absent from the sky.
In these conditions you will see the Roundup ready corn and soybean system fail. Especially if the ground was cultivated at all. This infers that it really is not sustainable although most believe it is a highly sustainable system. The addition of wheat, high stubble management and cover crop in the rotation can save the day.
If hunters are educated on this and other fronts then they can lobby it intelligently.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
well alrighty then!
I talked with the person who we rent our house from near Faulkton. This person lives there and has lived there for a number of years. This person drives to and from work and drives the area on weekends.
She has given me very good reports throughout the years. This was her exact quote last night when we talked.
"We have received some nice rain over the last week which should help with the current drought. However, as far as Pheasants go, they are few and far between. I see one here and one there but the numbers will be way down!
I will take this report as bad news for the north central part of the state. Others can wait and decide in December what The final bird numbers are and how it looks like but my hunt is at the end of October and that does me no good.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Chris I agree with you that there are way too many variables that play into pheasant numbers. However, you keep posting that there is no "Factual Data" to suggest that drought is related to lower bird numbers. While that my be true, I think you are having a difficult time convincing the members here that a severe drought doesn't negatively effect pheasant numbers. The mid to late 1980's was a very dry period in South Dakota. If you look at the numbers from 1984-1990, they were down considerably from the prior 4 years. Then in 1991 we started getting more moisture and the numbers shot up. Now I realize the CRP and numerous other factors probably came into play as well. I've been hunting pheasant for over 60 years and through my observations I do believe that drought does negatively effect pheasants. You have your opinion, I have mine and everyone else has their's. Think we've beat this issue to death on this thread and time to put it to rest!
benelli-banger
Well-known member
if conditions occur that deprive chicks of food or water, or, other necessities needed for survival, then populations will suffer. Period. I believe weather extremes are one of those conditions that could cause that to happen. Are there farming practices that could help to mitigate that from happening? Sure. Or, habitat that could be installed which, in time, could do the same? Sure. I am simply saying that, all else being equal, if weather extremes occur, especially during the May/June period, chick survival probably becomes an issue. I think that this would best be classified as a "blinding flash of the obvious" ... but I could be wrong!
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Gettin Birdy
Member
If anybody questions drought hurting bird numbers just look at what it did to KS, OK, and TX bird numbers on quail and pheasants. Everything needs water and a lack of sufficient water is a problem. Localized populations around water may not see as big of a decline due to the pond, lake, etc...
Agree many factors involved but water is a key component in the equation.
Agree many factors involved but water is a key component in the equation.
UGUIDE
Active member
See, the voice of reason has prevailed. The title to the news article should have read "Drought may lead to increase in beer consumption during hunting season".
For me this means less beer and more rubber worn off the truck tires as well as off my boots. Probably a bit more gas burned up as well. Oh well, still gonna go, still gonna find birds somewhere. I have all season to look. I'm sure I'll have some rough days and some great days. Just might be more of one than the other this year. If I just wanted to shoot I'd just go shoot clays and buy chicken. It's cheaper that way.
UGUIDE
Active member
Here was my main point. This story made national news https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...drought-conditions-affect-pheasant-population.
Every pheasant hunter with a South Dakota pheasant hunting plan, intent or interest got the news. It was bad news. Bad news travels at the speed of light. News originated out of Pierre. Hmm.
One of my outfitters just texted me that sky opened up a dropped an inch twenty on their farm (1.20"). Huge beneficial impact. Very localized weather.
You could have absolutely drought busting rains and I can assure you it would not make the national news (drought is over!!!!).
The bad news is akin to announcing an oil slick is coming ashore on the gulf coast. Pheasants need $$$. NOT GOOD.
Every pheasant hunter with a South Dakota pheasant hunting plan, intent or interest got the news. It was bad news. Bad news travels at the speed of light. News originated out of Pierre. Hmm.
One of my outfitters just texted me that sky opened up a dropped an inch twenty on their farm (1.20"). Huge beneficial impact. Very localized weather.
You could have absolutely drought busting rains and I can assure you it would not make the national news (drought is over!!!!).
The bad news is akin to announcing an oil slick is coming ashore on the gulf coast. Pheasants need $$$. NOT GOOD.
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
chick survival is the issue...absence of insects and dew...interesting thread on the nd forum...suspect that in much of NE MT, lots of ND, and some of SD there was a dearth of those required things during June...