Why Pointing Labs?

[Deadbird]

I understand why you hunt with a pointer or hunt with a flusher.

I have hunted pheasants behind some good pointing dogs and some good flushers (Carptom's lab being one of them)

Why do you need a lab to point pheasants?

Most of the time when my pointing dogs go on point, the pheasants have moved on by the time I get to them. (I know some pheasants hold for point, but not the majority do)

Does a pointing lab range out farther than a flushing lab.

I am not trying to say one dog is better than another. Just asking.

I might get a lab some day. Just did not know if it needed to point.

Thanks

 

[Nimrod]

They're ideal for people who can't shoot very well.

Actually, I can see the attraction if you're primarily a duck hunter who also hunts bobwhites or grouse but I find that when a pheasant does decide to hold for a pointing dog, the shot isn't usually challenging enough to make it interesting.

I much prefer the way a flushing dog works pheasants but I'm still young enough to keep up. Maybe in a few yrs I'll change my tune.

 

[canthitathing]

You don't need a pointig Lab for upland hunting, BUT, I will say, if you are looking for a Lab that have stamina, desire and the NOSE to go along with it. Three years ago I was looking for a new lab, 90% for upland birds, 10% water fowl. I was use to flushing labs and they pretty well did the job. My son had a aging female that is a super spectacular water dog and finding dead roosters. He suggested I looks for a male that had good breeding behind it. After reading a number of articals and doing some research, I decided on on a pointing Lab. I looked at a number of kennel websites, I wanted something that had desire and could a nose that could find birds. I guess I really didn't care if it pointed, I just wanted the genetics of real up-land hunting dogs. I found a Reputable breeder in MN, the man was a trainer and a guide, and his breeding dogs were all titled or had their CPA. Well I got the last pic of the litter, and I was very nervous, infact it was a sight unseen purchase. I HAVE NO regrets at all, that pup had turned into a hunting machine, and yes he does point and will hold the point, (as long as the bird doesn't decided to run). This year in SD I had him hold point for up to 5 min while we got in position to flush. Sure he wasn't cheap, but to me he is everything I wanted and the breeder felt the litter should produce. I got a hunting companion that is very tractable, and hast the Nose and stamina I was looking for---and is a retrieving idiot
:10sign:

 

[D Bros.]

Well, I'm certainly no expert, by any means. I've had 2 Labs now, both of them pointing Labs. I've found that when they point, it's not always the classic point, sometimes just a very intense stare at a particular piece of cover. As for why I like them...sometimes the point will give me just that extra few seconds to walk up on the bird. And, I've found that I really love to watch the dog work in on a bird and then lock up. I suppose that I could get one of the pointing breeds for my next pup, but I just really like the Lab personality.

About a month ago, I got to hunt some really nice private land owned by a friend's father. At one point in the hunt, I watched my yellow Lab Diesel work his way in on a patch of grass, moving in tighter and tighter, tail going like mad. He got in close, then locked up in a perfect classic point. As I walked up on him, I could see the grass moving where the bird was. He held the point until the bird tried to run, then when it did he moved in and flushed it, as most pointing Labs will do. It was a hen, so I didn't get a shot, but he still got praised and loved on quite a bit. I was so happy and proud of my boy, I could've just busted. That one little moment just made my entire day.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Labguys want their flushers to point, and those with pointers want the dog to point. How come there are no pointing Springers, Goldens. In your hearts, you Lab guys all want a pointer

 

[Emperor_MA]

If folks want to hunt with mixed-breeds, that is fine by me. I'm not really sure we needed to do that to make a "pointing Lab" but the Labrador Retriever as a purebred is such a out-of-this-world popular breed that it is easy to see why some set out to do it.

I don't mind hunting over flushers, pointing dogs or flash-pointing dogs. In fact, some of the best pheasant dogs I've ever hunted over have been GSPs with what most pointing dog purists would call "bad manners" on game.

All can be effective. All can be fun for at least some of the hunters out there. Too each their own as long as you're doing it legally, safely and having a good time.

 

[carptom1]

Labguys want their flushers to point, and those with pointers want the dog to point. How come there are no pointing Springers, Goldens. In your hearts, you Lab guys all want a pointer

Actually Buck there are many of us that prefer the Lab not to point.. Oh and jonnyb does have a golden that points. I have wittnessed a bunch of them

 

[oldandnew]

Labguys want their flushers to point, and those with pointers want the dog to point. How come there are no pointing Springers, Goldens. In your hearts, you Lab guys all want a pointer

I hunted behind a beagle who would route out pheasants, rabbits, foxes, quail, and retrieved them, ( sort of). No body tried to make him point! No what I tried to get for a birddog! My point being that lots of dogs are good at a style of hunting, which does not agree with the standards of people who determined what those standards should be. I.E. no black on Brittany, according to breed standards labs are flushing dogs, a point is a fault. Most of these are waterfowl devotes, or others, who never looked down a shotgun barrel! Some theory of use, should be appropriate, I don't think pointing should be outlawed, especially since we decorate "companion dogs", "working certificate" dogs, "tracking dogs", "drug enforcement" dogs, and sight dogs. What different does a dog who points? By the way, no lab will take your breath away pointing like the professionals. But they produce for the bag. I have said before, probably, for pheasants, better than a pointing dog, taking cover as it comes, Personally I like the sight a great find of the pointing dog, but I might wish for a Lab, to retrieve it!

 

[BrowningCitori]

If folks want to hunt with mixed-breeds, that is fine by me. I'm not really sure we needed to do that to make a "pointing Lab" but the Labrador Retriever as a purebred is such a out-of-this-world popular breed that it is easy to see why some set out to do it.

I don't mind hunting over flushers, pointing dogs or flash-pointing dogs. In fact, some of the best pheasant dogs I've ever hunted over have been GSPs with what most pointing dog purists would call "bad manners" on game.

All can be effective. All can be fun for at least some of the hunters out there. Too each their own as long as you're doing it legally, safely and having a good time.

Pointing Labs are not a mixed breed, at least none of the lines I know. They are labs lines that breeders have selected for their pointing (all canines point to some extent, watch a coyote or fox hunt, they often "point" to make sure the prey is where they think it is). Just as pointers that retrieve (I have heard they exist) are not mixed breed.

 

[D Bros.]

Labguys want their flushers to point, and those with pointers want the dog to point. How come there are no pointing Springers, Goldens. In your hearts, you Lab guys all want a pointer

Believe me, I've thought about it. I love the look of a nice Brittany, or a Llewellin Setter. But, I'm kinda hooked on the Labs. So, for now, I kinda have the best of both worlds, I guess. Maybe down the line a few years I'll get a pointer.

 

[PairOfLabs]

The only dogs my wife and I have had are male yellow labs-6 so far, soon to be 7. Cody was already retired from hunting when we put our 2 yr old Logan down due to epilepsy. It was the first time since 1990 that I was facing an upcoming hunting season without a hunting dog. I always thought it might be difficult to run a flushing lab and pointing lab at the same time so I had never looked for one. But with no able lab I thought I would take a stab and found Parker as a 13 wk old pup at an APLA event. He's been great so now I'm getting my second pup with strong pointing background. We'll see how he does. Since he was going to be a lab anyway, and always yellow, why not have him point some, too. It's the best of both worlds.
Tom

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

Actually Buck there are many of us that prefer the Lab not to point.. Oh and jonnyb does have a golden that points. I have wittnessed a bunch of them

tom my chessie points. half second flash points on the close stuff or in the thin stuff. he had a point on 3 roosters the other day. They were on the other side of a steep ditch. I was looking for them, was like man theres no birds in here. Then they busted about 60 yds out on the other side. Setternut stuff, classic, wish I brought the camera.
Pointers are cool just wouldn't want one everyday.

 

[carptom1]

tom my chessie points. half second flash points on the close stuff or in the thin stuff. he had a point on 3 roosters the other day. They were on the other side of a steep ditch. I was looking for them, was like man theres no birds in here. Then they busted about 60 yds out on the other side. Setternut stuff, classic, wish I brought the camera.
Pointers are cool just wouldn't want one everyday.

Yea I am sure that was a pretty sight 12 o'clock tail and everything. Maybe you could get the labs to back and setternut could eat crow. My dog does what I would call marking of the bird before he goes in. This only happens in deep cover or snow. He will stand tall and tense while he figures out the best way to go in then he's gone. In short cover or thinner cattails there is no hesitation. If I was going to go pointy, I would prefer a classic point like an english pointer or a setter

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

own line

Yea I am sure that was a pretty sight 12 o'clock tail and everything. Maybe you could get the labs to back and setternut could eat crow. My dog does what I would call marking of the bird before he goes in. This only happens in deep cover or snow. He will stand tall and tense while he figures out the best way to go in then he's gone. In short cover or thinner cattails there is no hesitation. If I was going to go pointy, I would prefer a classic point like an english pointer or a setter

I figure we can dock the tails, grab a few pictures. We'll be rich I tell you......RICH:thumbsup:

 

[BritChaser]

I hunted over a friend's pointing lab this season. Very effective dog in the Dakota cattails. The point gives the hunter extra time to take a position or catch up.

 

[Emperor_MA]

Pointing Labs are not a mixed breed, at least none of the lines I know. They are labs lines that breeders have selected for their pointing (all canines point to some extent, watch a coyote or fox hunt, they often "point" to make sure the prey is where they think it is). Just as pointers that retrieve (I have heard they exist) are not mixed breed.

If you were around dog breeding about 15-20 years ago (even as recently as 10 years ago), just about every "pointing lab" breeder seemed to keep a few intact English Setters on the grounds. If you hung around a bit more, you'd even notice puppies that looked a lot like labs but had quite a bit of white on their chests.

It is pretty widely accepted in the PNW that pointing lab stock was liberally infused with English Setter blood to help get it off the ground. It slimmed the labs down, gave pointing instinct and, most importantly, the setter's genes seemed to not do too much in terms of changing the lab's appearance other than adding a bit of wave to the coat (didn't seem to change the density, though), slimming them down some and gave a slight narrowing and elongation of the snout. Of course, first generation out-crossings often produced pups with some white fur, but it was never very much. The pups were bred back to labs to get them all black again, then their offspring re-bred to setters to get more pointing instinct. Make 'em black again .... rinse, repeat.

The lines are pretty set now from all the previous out crossings so you don't see the setters hanging around anymore. But if you were to do a deep dive DNA analysis of pointing labs, you'd find English Setter blood, for sure.

Not a big deal, really. All the breeds we love were started the same the way. The pioneers of the pointing lab world saw a market and went out and did something about it. They were right, as pointing labs are extremely popular....rightfully so for folks who hunt upland birds and also hunt waterfowl.

 

[Uncle Buck]

#1 guys, I winked.
#2 most of you have not heard of the Versitile breeds or you would note that the Wirehairs, SMs. Pudelpointers etc in addition to pointing will retrieve very nicely, thank you. I invite you all to go to one NAVHDA EVENT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND GET YOUR EYES OPENED.

 

[carptom1]

#1 guys, I winked.
#2 most of you have not heard of the Versitile breeds or you would note that the Wirehairs, SMs. Pudelpointers etc in addition to pointing will retrieve very nicely, thank you. I invite you all to go to one NAVHDA EVENT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND GET YOUR EYES OPENED.

Keep beating the drum Thanks for clearing it up though. I thought V-dog meant something else entirely

 

[koja48]

I partnered with Labs (non-pointing) my entire life. When it came time to replace Maggie, I had a) quit hunting waterfowl, and b) turned 62 . . . with the tired knees & other badges of experience one earns with that many years of hunting hard in the outdoors eagerly chasing behind flushers. So . . . I opted for a versatile Braque du Bourbonnais. Hank was easy to train, is extremely devoted, is an outstanding bird dog & companion. Do I miss Labs? I do & always will; Labs hold a very special place in my heart, but as long as I am able to hunt upland birds from here on out, I will likely own pointers & most likely Bourbonnais. My pup goes everywhere with me & Hank fills that bill nicely . . . as a matter of fact, he insists on that (and I don't mind at all.).

 

[Gatzby]

Look at these two sweethearts and tell me you don't want them

I am relieved to see you don't spoil your dogs between hunts!