Where have all the Quail gone? - SE KS

In 1986 when I started my habitat mission, I was reading everything I could get my hands on and the West Texas studies were talking four quail per acre. Didn't take me long to calculate how many that could be here on the Ponderosa. Never have came close, but man would that be neat. I still know what I need to do to achieve really good numbers, but money and time are my limiting factors.

The Pheasant Fest is coming. I have not had a chance to attend one, but plan to this year. If it is on the schedule this year you should hear Pete Berthelsen, Sr Field Coordinator from Nebraska talk about quail on his farm, which I believe is 160 acres.
 
not to stir the pot,but back in the 70's,I could take anyone who wanted to go,and find 8-10 coveys of quail. I had swveral small pocket fields that would hold several(3-4) coveys,and they where less then 160 ac fields.
I can remember at least 2 places that held 3 coveys and there was less then 80 ac fields.
Like I said,not to stir the pot,but i know that 3-4 coveys can survive on less then 80 ac,if the conditions are right.
 
You are so right oldandnew. It is possible, but it is expensive. We have allowed our perennial habitats to mature to a point that it make take more $ than the land is worth to improve it to the point that it is once again productive for quail. We have changed our agricultural system to the point that is is often more of a detriment than a benefit. This is a complete reversal from historic time. Fred Guthrie himself said: give me a couple trillion dollars and dictatorial power and I can restore the quail population across it's range in 10 years, or something to that effect. We need to find habitat options that are financially beneficial to landowners and functionally beneficial to quail to make this happen. I've always thought that "when" this cellulosic ethanol technology catches up, if we could remove cellulose sources that would benefit habitat and ag at the same time, it could be a boom for quail. Thin canopied timber, bale noxious weeds, chip invasive woody species, harvest introduced exotics. It has merit.
 
A good 80 can hold 3 or more coveys of quail. I have an 80 now that will have at least 3 coveys and probably more. As a matter of fact I have a 40 that usually has 3 coveys. We have had a good hatch for the first time in several years. I was bushhogging a waterway last week and saw 4 coveys in less than a half mile along one side of and 80. The field was corn with upland buffers around the whole field. The birds were from barely flying to half grown.
 
gsh lover said:
not to stir the pot,but back in the 70's,I could take anyone who wanted to go,and find 8-10 coveys of quail. I had swveral small pocket fields that would hold several(3-4) coveys,and they where less then 160 ac fields.
I can remember at least 2 places that held 3 coveys and there was less then 80 ac fields.
Like I said,not to stir the pot,but i know that 3-4 coveys can survive on less then 80 ac,if the conditions are right.
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I believe it b/c I was fortunate enough to experience this even in the 80's. My earliest experiences of quail hunting spoiled me. Grampa and my uncles never hunted more than a few hours. We'd start around noon, hit a couple of 80 acre pastures hitting only the "highlights" as gramps had come to know them over the years and see 5-6 coveys regularly. He hunted those cow pastures more than he hunted feed fields, but I digress.

Another spot surrounded by managed tallgrass prairie (not burned every year w/ edges around every crop field), was not quite a full section. 8-10-12 (probably times the birds across the road visited to feed) coveys in 4-5 hours of hunting was not uncommon. We kicked 'em up, then hunted the singles that landed directly in our path, then went on to find the next covey. I find the desire to leave a covey difficult to resist these days b/c I know the next one may take awhile to find.

It's best to leave each covey w/ good #'s. One time last season I shot a few birds out of a covey that someone else had already busted up (WIHA). I can only say w/ certainty that there were 6 or 7 birds left after I'd shot a couple over great points (may have been more, didn't look too hard). I've regretted that decision for months and will regret it until I see whether they're back this fall:eek:
 
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I have seen at least 3 coveys on 80 acres several times. I have seen more than that in fact, but I am sure they were also using the surrounding fields as well.

A place like that is gold for working a young dog.
 
I was born in 1980, so didn't get in on any of the 'good' hunting as my dad and uncle always referenced, hunting behind their 'awesome' Irish Setters. But I personally have seen the 3+ coveys on 80 acres, and that was just behind some backyard bred shorthairs ;).
 
I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't think there can be 3 coveys in 80 acres because if they feel that way they have never experienced good quail hunting.
 
In the old south if ground didn't support 1 bird per acre it was considered to poor to lease! As someone else mentioned, I had forgotten the good old days of covey hunting. You get a pointed covey and following up the singles you get covey # 2 pointed, before you can get to the singles, each rise leads you to the next covey, hunting a half a day was the norm, with limits or the razzing for bad shooting the norm, dogs were better too, because they saw more quail in a day than they see now in a season.
 
There is a place, but not SE Kansas that supports a lot of coveys, but it is a lot of acres also. I have had the invite twice, and hope, Lord willing to get another invite and that my body can handle it.

It looks like this-

stick11Jan09A031.jpg


BTW, when I lived in Frontenac(late 70's) and got to know an old-timer down by Columbus and he talked of the days before the forestation of SE Kansas and he said, "You know this country used to be prairie, more like your western Kansas."

NOW IF YOU LOOK BACK TO PRAIRIE DRIFTER POST #29, YOU WOULD SEE THESE COMMENTS, AND I QUOTE----

About the same time, we reached some kind of tipping point. The woodlands of the area were seeing reduced pressures for cooking and heating, fire was becoming more rare, and the seed bank/productivity of the maturing trees launched a fairly agressive timber expansion in that part of Kansas. I don't remember the exact number, but 20+% expansion since 1985 is the gist of the change. All this time, the existing timber was maturing and canopying out ground level cover, making the wooded habitat largely unuseable.
END QUOTE
 
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More like western Ks. except wetter on average. Sorry, I know that hurts this year especially. Our farm had a 40 of mature timber along a creek, my granddad kept cattle on it in the summer and it got thinned out good, there were quail everywhere even in the trees due to the first succession understory and sunlight which touched the ground. They were bigger, slower, and had yellow legs, sat like ticks for a dog. I think they are now gone, replaced or crossbred, by smaller wily running birds, or maybe we just mutated the survivors. Now it's a jungle of tree sprouts, as is all the surrounding property. It's the forest canopy and maturity of the pits with the attended undergrowth that cut the quail out of the equation. All farmers used to grow Kaffir corn, (milo) instead of beans. I do think there is a direct correlation to beans and decline. I'd give up the internet and cable TV, possibly even a/c, to have quail back like that. As Will Rodgers said, "I wish I was as smart now as I was when I was 18, I knew everything then"
 
M.R. That place looks like heaven on earth, If there is one covey left on the planet it would be there. Just screams quail.
 
I grew up in SEK as well, in Parsons. I didn't hunt then, but I remember seeing a lot of quail while fishing. Now that I hunt, I hardly ever find birds in Southeast Kansas. I've hunted the mined wildlife areas and a lot of private land. There are just not enough birds to even shoot at.
 
oldandnew said:
M.R. That place looks like heaven on earth, If there is one covey left on the planet it would be there. Just screams quail.
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Screams quail that hit the ground and scatter like ghosts! They can really get away from you in places like that, especially if you try to shoot on the covey rise.

No doubt, my best quail hunt last season took place in a field like that. There were more sandburrs than you could shake a stick at though:mad:
 
Since we're taking about quail I thought I'd share this. My 6 year old daughter is in Southwest Kansas visiting her Grandparents. She loves going out there because she gets to do farmwork with "Papa". I stayed home this time and today happens to be my birthday. She called this morning and the first words out of her mouth.........not happy birthday, but "hey dad, guess what. Papa and I seen some quail last night while on the tractor." That's my girl!
 
KansasGsp said:
Since we're taking about quail I thought I'd share this. My 6 year old daughter is in Southwest Kansas visiting her Grandparents. She loves going out there because she gets to do farmwork with "Papa". I stayed home this time and today happens to be my birthday. She called this morning and the first words out of her mouth.........not happy birthday, but "hey dad, guess what. Papa and I seen some quail last night while on the tractor." That's my girl!
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That's a nice thing to hear:thumbsup:

Happy B-day man! My daughter now shares it w/ you. She was born this morning at 7:46am:cheers:
 
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