Peterson, Harvin and the Queens are Back!

Dakotazeb said:
The clueless Ponder showed up again today and the Vikes still won thanks to AP and a pretty good defense. Ponder was 11/17 for 91 yds. That's at least 3 games this year he has failed to reach 100 yds in passing. When are Frazier and the owners going to wake up and realize this guy was a wasted first round pick. At least put Webb in one game and see what he can do. He certainly can't be any worse that Ponder. Doesn't take a lot of talent to hand the ball to AP.
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What goes on behind closed doors over at Winter Park is anyone's guess. My Guess (and only a guess) is that Spielman and Frazier are not removing Ponder from the starting QB position because doing so at this point would be an admittance of failure on their part in drafting him in the first round when other teams would have passed. The part that bothers me the most is the way Ponder keeps making the same mental mistakes game after game and is actually regressing not progressing. You can't coach that, you either get it or you don't.

Take a look at his throwing mechanics, pathetic. Many times he's throwing off balanced, off the wrong leg and across his body. The point is, he's NOT LEARNING from his mistakes and that is not just some rookie needing more time, it's complete inept, period !!

There... I'm done slammin the lad. I truly wish a miracle would happen and the light switch does come on for Christian, but I just don't think it will ever happen to the degree that he will be a bone-a-fide NFL starter.
 
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UGUIDE said:
I don't know man. I sure would not put Harvin and Moss in the same category. What two other players on the Vikings put out more effort that Peterson and Harvin and a regular basis? I have never seen Harvin "sandbag" like Moss did.

Here's what I just read in Star Trib from what I could find on a Harvin search:

"On another subject, Mark Wilf was asked about the status of superstar Percy Harvin, who has been put on injured reserve for the rest of the season because of a bad ankle and has just one year left on his contract. He said that every effort will be made to keep Harvin with the Vikings because of his great contributions to the team when healthy."
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It doesn't take much to see there's a lot more going on here than a sprained or whatever ankle. Percy has been seen on the sidelines visibly agitated and arguing with Frazier. The comparison I drew with Moss wasn't that Percy has ever sandbagged or taken a play off etc.. but the attitude, that left unchecked becomes a cancer to the rest of the team. If he gets a big contract, no telling what kind of crap he may start to pull. Regardless of what the Vikings end up doing with him, it's going to be a gamble.
 
birdshooter said:
It doesn't take much to see there's a lot more going on here than a sprained or whatever ankle. Percy has been seen on the sidelines visibly agitated and arguing with Frazier. The comparison I drew with Moss wasn't that Percy has ever sandbagged or taken a play off etc.. but the attitude, that left unchecked becomes a cancer to the rest of the team. If he gets a big contract, no telling what kind of crap he may start to pull. Regardless of what the Vikings end up doing with him, it's going to be a gamble.
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Not buying it. If I was Peterson and/or Harvin and saw the potential of the team and with a little better coaching decisions, I too would be frustrated with my coaching staff and showing it.

I bought a vikings jersey for first time in my life this year and bought a Harvin one at that. Why? That boy plays harder than anyone I can remember and I love his attitude toward the game. He wants to win and when you can see it and can't do it you are frustrated. Kinda like being in Viet Nam. The leaders are always responsible for the outcomes. You gotta give some credit to the coaches for AP leading the NFL in rushing by 300 yards. it ain't all AP all the time.
 
UGUIDE said:
You gotta give some credit to the coaches for AP leading the NFL in rushing by 300 yards. It ain't all AP all the time.
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Yeah, give the coaches the credit! :confused: When you have a QB that can't pass his way out of wet paper bag it doesn't take genius to figure out what play to call. Just hand the ball to AP. Talk about a one demensional team. I really don't think you can give the coaches any credit. It's all the OL and AP.

When you have a running back that has put up the numbers that AP has, the passing game should be a piece of cake. That is if you have a competent QB, a couple of competent receivers and a competent coaching staff. Unfortunately the Vikes have none of the above.

Sorry Chris, I have to disagree. :)
 
Dakotazeb said:
Yeah, give the coaches the credit! :confused: When you have a QB that can't pass his way out of wet paper bag it doesn't take genius to figure out what play to call. Just hand the ball to AP. Talk about a one demensional team. I really don't think you can give the coaches any credit. It's all the OL and AP.

When you have a running back that has put up the numbers that AP has, the passing game should be a piece of cake. That is if you have a competent QB, a couple of competent receivers and a competent coaching staff. Unfortunately the Vikes have none of the above.

Sorry Chris, I have to disagree. :)
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I was referring to the players that blocked for AP and the plays that they execute. They don't all just show up and know what to do. Coaches probably have a little say in the plays and who is doing what otherwise what in the hell are we paying the coaches for in the first place?
 
Troy Aikman only averaged 159 yards per game his rookie and 2nd year.
He also had a 50 something quarterback rating. 9 TDS rookie season, 11 his second season.

Joe Montana averaged 119 yards per game his second year in the league.

John Elway averaged 151 his rookie season.

1987 & 1988 Steve Young only averaged 61 and 71 yards per game.

We all know how these guys' careers developed.

Unlike everyone else, I believe Ponder has all the skills to be a good quarterback. He needs to get his confidence back and the coaches need to allow him to throw the ball. His mechanics definately need work. But, he's a very intelligent guy, he can fix those things. It doesn't help when you have no recievers that can get open, and then when he does throw to them, they drop the pass. He's thrown some bad interceptions, but those things you can correct. Either way, SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheers:
 
I believe Dakotazeb is a little misguided. Does Christian Ponder have any recievers to throw to? Do they get open? In my opinion, No.......... I will agree with you, Bill Musgrave needs to go. His play calling is horrible......Vikings used to be a GREAT screen team, and AP thrived in it the last few years, I haven't seen a screen pass to AP all year long. I about fainted when they tried it against the bears yesterday, although the play got blown up...........






Dakotazeb said:
Yeah, give the coaches the credit! :confused: When you have a QB that can't pass his way out of wet paper bag it doesn't take genius to figure out what play to call. Just hand the ball to AP. Talk about a one demensional team. I really don't think you can give the coaches any credit. It's all the OL and AP.

When you have a running back that has put up the numbers that AP has, the passing game should be a piece of cake. That is if you have a competent QB, a couple of competent receivers and a competent coaching staff. Unfortunately the Vikes have none of the above.

Sorry Chris, I have to disagree. :)
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Labman said:
Troy Aikman only averaged 159 yards per game his rookie and 2nd year.
He also had a 50 something quarterback rating. 9 TDS rookie season, 11 his second season.

Joe Montana averaged 119 yards per game his second year in the league.

John Elway averaged 151 his rookie season.

1987 & 1988 Steve Young only averaged 61 and 71 yards per game.

We all know how these guys' careers developed.

Unlike everyone else, I believe Ponder has all the skills to be a good quarterback. He needs to get his confidence back and the coaches need to allow him to throw the ball. His mechanics definately need work. But, he's a very intelligent guy, he can fix those things. It doesn't help when you have no recievers that can get open, and then when he does throw to them, they drop the pass. He's thrown some bad interceptions, but those things you can correct. Either way, SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheers:
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Lab, I'm not going to argue the stats on the QB's you mentioned. I will only say the NFL is a different game now then it was in those years. It's all about the pass and you can't win if you can't at least be fairly successful doing so. Even since Troy played it has been more about the pass and less of a balanced attack of both running and passing.

I personally don't think Ponder is ready. He needs to play behind a quality veteran QB for awhile to learn how the position is played. He may never pan out and wouldn't be the first college QB to come to the NFL with high hopes to fall on his face and never amount to much.
 
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Labman said:
I believe Dakotazeb is a little misguided. Does Christian Ponder have any recievers to throw to? Do they get open? In my opinion, No.......... I will agree with you, Bill Musgrave needs to go. His play calling is horrible......Vikings used to be a GREAT screen team, and AP thrived in it the last few years, I haven't seen a screen pass to AP all year long. I about fainted when they tried it against the bears yesterday, although the play got blown up...........
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I may be a lot of things but misguided is not one. If you had read my post I said that the Vikes don't have any competent receivers. But Ponder is not showing much as a QB in the NFL either. Like someone else said, he's probably just not ready. Look how many years Rodgers got to play behind Favre. Too bad Ponder wasn't able to have tutelage.
 
Time would be a nice thing to have for QB. This is Ponders 2nd year. He still has to compete and look at the rookie QB's like Newton, RGIII and Foles let alone the vets like Brady and Manning's.

The separation is immense.

The Pats smoked Houston 2 nite so the Vikes will have some good film to look at for thier match. Ponder just needs to look like Brady and it will be in the bag.
 
FCSpringer said:
Brad Johnson was about the next best we had. Then they let him go when he got good, same with Gannon. But they still were not great, but good. If we had either now, this would be a sweet ride.
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You'd put Brad Johnson over my man Tommy Kramer?? :eek:

Come on.... 2 minute Tommy..:D

Don't tell me you've forgotten Two minute Tommy in this game

 
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I must say that was pretty cool and I remember watching that game now-the Vikes were classy when Bud Grant was there.
 
The Vikings have has some good QB's Sir Frances for sure the best.
The others didn't last long. Tommy Kramer got His bell rung and never recovered. Culpepper got His knee torn up, once He couldn't scramble he lost His edge. Gannon was good, coach didn't like Him. Wade Wilson was good for a year or two, Brad Johnson had a good football brain, Warren Moon was good for a year, Randal Cunningham was a superstar for a year, so was Brett. Jeff George was MVP for 5 games. :confused:
Ummm am I missing some?

Ponder smart? whatever. Same stupid mistakes over and over.
What do you guys think Rogers or Brady would do with the receivers the Vikings have? Yep make em pro bowlers. :)
With Vikings running game, teams play them 8-9 in the box playing a one dimensional offense. That should be a dream come true for a NFL QB and coaching staff. Vikings coaches and QB can't do anything with it.
3 games left, if things go badly look for major changes.
 
What about Joe Kapp, he threw wounded ducks but was effective, tough as nails and a winner-I think he was after Tarkington. Does he show up at old timers games in Mn.
 
Geno said:
What about Joe Kapp, he threw wounded ducks but was effective, tough as nails and a winner-I think he was after Tarkington. Does he show up at old timers games in Mn.
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Actually, Kapp played between Tarkenton's two separate stints with Vikes until 1970. SI Dubbed Kapp the "toughest Chicano on the planet". What a colorful guy to say the least.

Most people may forget Tarkenton was drafted by the Purple in 1961 and played until 1966 under Van Brocklin (Pre Bud Grant) until traded to the Giants.

Even though the Vikes lost those 4 Superbowls in the 70's, those were special years for Vikings fans. What a cast of characters they had....
 
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