Changing attitude about pay to hunt ?

[pheasanthunt]

What is payment to hunt? Some do it in dollars, some in beer, some in presents. Any way you look at it, it adds up to paying to hunt. I pay the state to hunt. I pay lots of people on my way out and back, gas, restaurants, tire repair shops, convenience store snacks, etc. I think the real question is how much is too much. That my friends is a debate that will never get answered because expendable income varies between myself and my buddies let alone the entire hunting population. Some spend thousands to be pampered and drove around in buses to premium lands filled with pheasants. I can't afford that but I don't think they are less of a hunter than me. Just lucky to have that much money! Some of us don't have a problem paying $100 a day to experience a do-it yourself hunt where the odds of shooting your limit are reasonable. Some guys choose to hunt public land, their choice and their time. I just think it is funny when people say they won't pay to hunt private then say, well maybe if was just a little money then that would be okay! We all pay, that is why we all have the freedom to hunt. If nobody paid the state or conservation organizations no one would hunt. Keep the comments coming guys, this is good debate.

I really think this summed up the issue very well. Well said Golden.

 

[goldenboy]

Thanks for the thumbs up Pheasanthunt. The more I look at the issue the more complex it becomes. I can see the point of pricing hunting out of the common man's ability if everything goes in that direction. But that is why as a nation we have organizations that are started like Pheasants Forever to pool resources and efforts together to buy land and make more habitat. But that will not solve everyone's desire for hunting. Some people have been blessed with money and desire a different type of experience. When we as hunters start to divide amongst ourselves over issues like this, it just provides an avenue for the anti's to drive a wedge between us and split our forces up. I say thank God that we live in the country we live in and are afforded the freedoms we have!

Now how long do I have to wait till I can shoot birds again?

 

[mgorvi]

Pay to play vs public

I spent time in Oct., Nov., and Dec. hunting some of the most heavily pressured public lands in the state. It was north and northwest of Webster, 3.5 hours from 2 million people. I saw and shot birds every day. I had to work, and for almost all of it I was alone, but the birds were there. I'm not ready to give up on public land just yet. It just has so much to do with your dog, and the methods that we employ. I'm glad I never hunted the "hay" days when you could line up six guys, walk a field, scream and holler at your dogs, collars beeping and bells ringing, and expect to limit out. I don't even have a decade under my belt yet, but from what I read here, those having success have let their approach evolve and adapt to the uncontrollable changes going on. The sad part, for some, is that the comardarie of the group hunt is not what it once was. Deer hunting in Wisconsin has experienced some of the same realities. The good ol' days, they r' a changin', I guess.

 

[Goosemaster]

Curious if others like me have changed their attitude when it comes to a willingness to pay to hunt good private ground? I spend a lot of time in SD and for the most part have good success on public ground and have a few private farms to hunt as well however my approach has changed in the past season or two and it has frankly made for more enjoyable trips.
After years of saying no way I will not pay to hunt I have reached what I think is a great compromise. First let me be clear that the several hundred $$$ per day lodge set up's are not my cup of tea. I have a great place to stay, hunt with my dogs and don't want or need a guide or my birds cleaned for me. I'm quite good at pouring my own Bourbon as well ! Just ask around :cheers: Like most I just want good ground to hunt wild birds. With a little effort I have found locals with family owned farms and acreage ok with a $100.00 per gun fee to hunt excellent non pounded fields.

That said there is no doubt a great sense of accomplishment outwitting and outworking on public ground and my approach is mainly aimed toward the multitude of folks making long trips to chase birds.
My personal approach over the course of a week trip is to alternate public days with private days. This generally gives me the opportunity for limits each day and my total outlay for a week of great wild bird hunting runs around $300.00 which I think is a great deal for all concerned. The best bonus is the friends and connections I have made getting to know some terrific people out there.

Opinions welcome.

You can take that 100 dollars, and pay for 3 nights in a motel!!

 

[Goosemaster]

Yep thats what you deal with on public land. I would pay to avoid other people too. Ive tried to team up and hunt with guys too. Didnt work out. Guys were running to the dog on point. Shooting 3 times as fast as they can in whatever direction....When I was a kid, dove hunting, 2 of us would get out early before light, set up lawn chairs in various spots and put lit flashlights in them so it looked like the spots were occupied. Then right before shooting hours we would go take em all down. We could usually kill a limit before others caught wind and moved into those spots! I have run into people on accident myself in the pheasant/quail field. Usually deer hunters that I didnt know were there, or someone who parked in a weird spot and didnt see their vehicle.

I almost got shot by a deer hunter one time. They arnt my favorite people.

 

[Goosemaster]

The TV show pay for play hunt relates better to the pheasant lodge where the birds are raised at a hatchery in Janesville, WI, 40 miles from my home, and are deposited in a dumpster after they are shot. I prefer to believe that when I give a local farmer $100 to hunt his shelter belt, he takes that $100 to town and stops at the local cafe. He pays for his breakfast, catches up with his buddies that he grew up with, and leaves the waitress a good tip. She really needs it cuz she's single, has two young kids at home, and they want a Christmas present or two. Then he heads to the hardware store to pick up some nuts and bolts of various sizes. The high school kid has a job because the farmer needed some supplies. Then the farmer heads to the local John Deere Implement Dealer because he needs a bearing for the the feeder house on his combine. The parts guy gets to have a job, and the tech in the shop installs the bearing, making himself and his company some money. Then the farmer stops at the grocery and works down his list for gramma. The mark up on grocery is only 4%, so every cent that the farmer spends at the grocery makes a difference. Before he heads home, he stops and has one beer at the local bar. His bar tab and tip keep the place going, which is important, especially when there aren't many places to meet up in a small town, and the winter is six months long. If you look at the big picture, the $100 that you spend to shoot a few multi-colored chickens, has a much larger impact than just making you feel like you had a good, safe, successful hunt.

I'm not buying that argument. Some farmers makeBANK!! Off of pheasant hunters.

 

[Goosemaster]

I'm moving to SD, because $100 goes a long way there! J/k
We show our appreciation with gift certificate,booze,or some cash, but no $100 bucks a day.

I give them a 6 pack of bud light.they like it.

 

[Goosemaster]

From Montana Fish & Wildlife
Public Land Hunting Opportunities in Montana.
"Montana boasts over 30 million acres of state and federal lands, nearly one third of the state".

Goosemaster,
I have yet to hunt Montana so I am going strictly off stats and those that I have talked with who have experience there. I'm planning to hunt there next season.

Granted a good amount of the 30 million public acres may be garbage for upland but I can't imagine the acres owned privately that are set up for upland commercial hunting are not a tiny fraction compared to the public acreage available. I'm having a tough time seeing where the commercial side of Montana bird hunting is taking such a toll on the ability of average joes like you and me to find good opportunities.

Respectfully.

Montana is being bought up fast by rich -/---/holes.They build lodges, and charge money. They are not ranchers. They don't even live there.

 

[alberta jonny]

Montana is being bought up fast by rich -/---/holes.They build lodges, and charge money. They are not ranchers. They don't even live there.

So let me get this straight, private land is being bought by someone and their in turn making a profit off their purchase.... oh the horror. I don't understand what you want? These people are spending their money not you and it has no real effect on you because you never had a right to the land anyhow. Why don't you get off your soap box, buy a chunk of land and donate it to the public... Then maybe I'll listen. Until then stop crying about people that have more then you, a different view then you, or drive a new truck then you.... it's getting old.

 

[mgorvi]

Pay to hunt

I'm not buying that argument. Some farmers makeBANK!! Off of pheasant hunters.

You want them to make "bank". That should always be the goal. The entire economy of most of those small communities out there are agriculture driven. When the ranchers and row crop farmers flourish, everybody experiences the benefits; job security, wages based on supply and demand, and an upward trend in the standard of living. It's no different than a small town in northern wisconsin being supported by one large business. You want that business owner to make "bank". The entire town depends on it. It makes no difference if it's corn or soybeans, angus beef, or dog collars. I used to think differently about it, but after spending time out there you can't help but realize it. You got to remember, we might spend one 3 day hunt for the year, but they have to live and survive there, and raise their kids. Emotions aside though, it's basic economics.

 

[alberta jonny]

You want them to make "bank". That should always be the goal. The entire economy of most of those small communities out there are agriculture driven. When the ranchers and row crop farmers flourish, everybody experiences the benefits; job security, wages based on supply and demand, and an upward trend in the standard of living. It's no different than a small town in northern wisconsin being supported by one large business. You want that business owner to make "bank". The entire town depends on it. It makes no difference if it's corn or soybeans, angus beef, or dog collars. I used to think differently about it, but after spending time out there you can't help but realize it. You got to remember, we might spend one 3 day hunt for the year, but they have to live and survive there, and raise their kids. Emotions aside though, it's basic economics.

Well said.

 

[PheasantWhisperer]

Montana is being bought up fast by rich -/---/holes.They build lodges, and charge money. They are not ranchers. They don't even live there.

I did some research after hearing the complaints about all the land being bought up by out of state outfitters. 80-85% of all hunting lodges in Montana are in the Rocky Mountain range. If you go online it's tough to find an outfitter in the prairies of Montana. You should research other states like South Dakota, Kansas, and Texas. Montana wont seem so bad then. I'm going up there next fall. Just from making phone contacts and sending emails, we have several private farms and ranches to go hunt on. We may mix in some public but it looks like we won't have to. There are other states with waaayyy more lodges in them. And all these states other than Texas are smaller than Montana.

 

[pheasanthunt]

Wow! We have really done some tongue and cheek criticizing from afar on this thread. I can find someone who pays less to hunt than me. I can also find someone who pays more to hunt than me. Does it make one of them better than the other? No. Just different sets of values, ideas, and economics. If the state puts in more public land that is good for everybody including the pay to hunt places. More habitat means more birds. If private landowners put more land into CRP, or wildlife habitat that is good for everybody. We need to work together on these issues instead of touting how my way or viewpoint is better than yours. In the end we all want to see more birds survive the winter and more nesting habitat for broods in the spring.
Guys we still live in the greatest country in the world! I travel to other parts of the world where the money you spend on a 870 wingmaster is excessive and out of touch with their reality! I think a bit of our arguments are based on a society that is pretty well off as a whole.
But keep the comments coming, I enjoy the banter as long as we in the end can agree to disagree.

well said again!!!

 

[pheasanthunt]

You can take that 100 dollars, and pay for 3 nights in a motel!!

that might be tuff.

 

[UGUIDE]

Once the masses realize that EVERYONE pays to hunt....and everyone realizes that quality of public land hunting relies mainly on what is being done on private land....then the focus can be on the real issue that affects better hunting.....CASH FLOW.

Turkeys and booze, as compensation, are on the low end of the cash flow spectrum.

 

[small munsterlander owner]

Once the masses realize that EVERYONE pays to hunt....and everyone realizes that quality of public land hunting relies mainly on what is being done on private land....then the focus can be on the real issue that affects better hunting.....CASH FLOW.

Turkeys and booze, as compensation, are on the low end of the cash flow spectrum.

I'll never understand that logic...

Why not improve public land habitat to make public hunting better??? How dose pay to play operations make public land better??? Many pay to play lands have no public land options close your place by lake Andes has lots but that's not the case statewide...

If we need cash flow to be able to have a quality hunt in the USA that's a sad day or future to look forward to...

 

[Chip]

I'll never understand that logic...

Why not improve public land habitat to make public hunting better??? How dose pay to play operations make public land better??? Many pay to play lands have no public land options close your place by lake Andes has lots but that's not the case statewide...

If we need cash flow to be able to have a quality hunt in the USA that's a sad day or future to look forward to...

Why not improve land habitat on public better. Well that is pretty easy to explain. The reason no one what's to talk about is it costs money and we as a country are BROKE no money honey. As you call it pay to play operations put their own bucks into there own land in the hope of getting a return on investment. Let's look at public vs private for a second. I can't tell you how many times I've hunted good looking public with no results just to see 100 's of birds pour out of a private corn field right after shooting time. After the birds get shot at a few times they will go to a place with little or no pressure. Last how does pay to play help public. Look at it the other way does pay to play hurt public. I think not

 

[alberta jonny]

SMO, one way to look at it is there would be less hunters pressuring game and more then likely better habitat for survival, leading to a higher population. The higher the population the more area required, so in theory they would be leaking out of the private land onto public.
The idea of paying a trespass fee is completely foreign to me (because it is illegal up here), but the more I look at the situation I really don't see a problem with it.

 

[haymaker]

If all the hunting operations that are in it as a business took the acres that are dedicated for the benefit of wildlife and put them back into ag production, would hunting get better or worse in South Dakota?

 

[Goosemaster]

I did some research after hearing the complaints about all the land being bought up by out of state outfitters. 80-85% of all hunting lodges in Montana are in the Rocky Mountain range. If you go online it's tough to find an outfitter in the prairies of Montana. You should research other states like South Dakota, Kansas, and Texas. Montana wont seem so bad then. I'm going up there next fall. Just from making phone contacts and sending emails, we have several private farms and ranches to go hunt on. We may mix in some public but it looks like we won't have to. There are other states with waaayyy more lodges in them. And all these states other than Texas are smaller than Montana.

So you found a bunch of free places to hunt, over the phone? Come on man.