StoneBrook I could have not said it better. Living is small town SD. I see locals shut out on private ground all year. pretty dam sad. You have all kinds of farms/operations were family and friends have been shut out from hunting pheasants all but maybe one weekend. All in the name of paid hunting. Every time someone pays to hunt it denies some local, family or friends that opportunity. I understand as a property owner that it is up to the landowner if he wants to charge to hunt but I see the negative effect of it in our locals and young kids who have for the most part quit hunting pheasants.
Changing attitude about pay to hunt ?
- Thread starter Brad6260
- Start date
Stonebroke
New member
You are correct. It's difficult for the young people to try to get permission. It's not a lot of fun for anyone to ask permission and be rejected time and time again. Maybe older people with decent jobs can afford to slip a farmer a $100 bill, but the young folks trying to start a family, who are paying off student loans, trying to buy a home, etc. just don't have that kind of money. My son loves to hunt, but has decided fishing is way less hassle. He can grab his fishing pole and go without asking anyone permission... It's sad that it's coming to that for far too many people....... young and old.
UGUIDE
Active member
2 guys are each fortunate enough to purchase 1000 acres of good farmland. Land price was same on both and property taxes are the same. They both have 20 year mortgages on the property with the local bank. They both cashed in their retirement account to come up with a down payment on the land. If they manage it right they may get it paid for in 20 years and maybe have it be their retirement when it comes time.
Land price was $4,000/acre. Down payment was 20% down.
One guy grew up farming crops and livestock. The other did not farm but hunted ducks and fished on public lands and waters.
Now they have to make the annual mortgage payments at the bank. They have to figure out how best to pay the bills.
The options are grow and sell grain crops, grow and sell livestock, rent the ground out to a neighboring farmer, farm the ground for conservation dollars, mine the ground for minerals, generate agri-tourism dollars in the form of a vineyard or commercial hunting, others could be selling the wind rights or oil rights if they exist. All have risk and all require hard work and knowledge and expertise.
The one decides that he will make his living from growing and selling grain crops and grows 1000 acres of corn and soybeans.
The other decides to do a blend of conservation revenue and agri-tourism revenue as well as some cash rent to the neighbors.
The land costs $4,000,000. 20% down payment is $800,000. The annual mortgage payment for 20 years on remaining $3,200,000 is $263,000/year. The property taxes are $20,000/year. Corn prices are $3.00/bushel and cash rent is $125/acre.
Both landowners spend significant amounts of money at the local elevator, grocery, hardware store, bank, etc.
The question is: Which one should allow free hunting?
Land price was $4,000/acre. Down payment was 20% down.
One guy grew up farming crops and livestock. The other did not farm but hunted ducks and fished on public lands and waters.
Now they have to make the annual mortgage payments at the bank. They have to figure out how best to pay the bills.
The options are grow and sell grain crops, grow and sell livestock, rent the ground out to a neighboring farmer, farm the ground for conservation dollars, mine the ground for minerals, generate agri-tourism dollars in the form of a vineyard or commercial hunting, others could be selling the wind rights or oil rights if they exist. All have risk and all require hard work and knowledge and expertise.
The one decides that he will make his living from growing and selling grain crops and grows 1000 acres of corn and soybeans.
The other decides to do a blend of conservation revenue and agri-tourism revenue as well as some cash rent to the neighbors.
The land costs $4,000,000. 20% down payment is $800,000. The annual mortgage payment for 20 years on remaining $3,200,000 is $263,000/year. The property taxes are $20,000/year. Corn prices are $3.00/bushel and cash rent is $125/acre.
Both landowners spend significant amounts of money at the local elevator, grocery, hardware store, bank, etc.
The question is: Which one should allow free hunting?
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My thoughts on the topic (for what they're worth). A community is about people coming together to help each other. There are volunteer fire departments, ambulance crews, as well as little league coaches, soccer coaches, and all sorts of volunteers in the communities throughout "Pheasant Country".. In our area the vast majority of volunteers are not farmers and ranchers as they live too far from town to be able to help. When there is a fire or the ambulance is needed, it's mostly people in our near town who respond......business owners, law enforcement personnel, etc.
Our economy is based around agriculture. Our town wouldn't exist if it wasn't for farming and ranching, but "one hand washes the other", as the old saying goes. Without the community farmers and ranchers wouldn't have the teachers and schools for their children. They wouldn't have the local grocery store, clinic, and other businesses that they utilize every day. They wouldn't have the county road dept. to maintain the roads from their farms and ranches to town, etc., etc., etc.,
Is it really too much for those of us in the communities to ask to hunt without paying? Only a very few are fortunate to be born into a farming or ranching family. The only way to get into farming or ranching these days is to be born into it, marry into it, or win the lottery.
As everyone knows, the landowners do not own the game on their land. We pay through our licenses to support the Fish and Game departments that protect the wildlife. If it were not for our laws, fish and game departments, etc. there probably be no pheasants and other game (or very little). This will be a never ending debate. There is no good answer. Landowners control their land and under our current laws they have every right to charge to hunt if they choose to.
Several years ago I coached little league baseball. A local farmer had a son who played. I picked up his son for practice and games and brought him home afterwards as he lived relatively close to us. I did this for several years as I went from coaching Little League to Babe Ruth. When I asked for permission to hunt on their property, I was denied. I never said a word, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me. It was more important to me to see that their son had a chance to play baseball than it was to be able to hunt on their property....
Some farmers and ranchers struggle financially, but not many. The ones around here do very, very well. Very few need the few extra bucks from either charging to hunt or leasing their land out...
The fact that this thread never dies must mean that this is an important discussion. You make some good points and I agree with you but in my case I do this as a business. I invested in a building to house hunters, I take land that I could rent out and plant habitat for wildlife. When I have a group of hunters here I can't let other people hunt, it would not be fair to the customers that have traveled many miles and paid me for the right to hunt here. When they have left and before the next group comes the birds rest. I don't even hunt myself because that is not fair to the next group. I do give away a weeks hunt every year that I could have sold for several thousand dollars. This last year a young girl shot her first pheasant. Right now I can buy corn cheaper than I can raise it. Cattle prices are less than half of what they were two years ago. I sell grass fed beef and that is profitable the only other thing that is right now is Pheasant hunting. I do this because I want this place to be wildlife friendly and that costs money and I still like to eat.
Every landowner has the right to do as he pleases with his land including charging for access. However it comes with it negatives. Locals, youth and average Joe and his son loose and when you loose enough you just quit and it is happening all over the country including rural SD when it comes to hunters. If you need to want to charge to hunt and tell your self it is the only way to can make money off your entire farm then so be it that is your call.
I guess it comes down to your attitude and morals in life and business.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
Do even 1% of SoDak landowners fit into either of these two models noted above ?
Most are "family" farms handed down to those children willing to stay in the area and work the land ... or owned by family that inherited the land, but chose to cash rent to larger operations ...
goldenboy
Well-known member
U guide your equation is a great point! 1,000 acres at $125 an acre cash rent won't make the annual payment to the bank! Growing corn and realizing a good bushel per acre equation of 150 bushel per acre will give you a profit but I am not sure how much based on the cost of seed, fuel and equipment to grow and harvest the crop. Seems like there are always guys willing to hunt. Even at a profit of $6,000 per week for paying customers for a total of 12 weeks you still can't make the payments on the land. I think we better make sure the local farmer keeps his land and I help him keep it by offering him a little money for the rights to hunt. Otherwise I won't be able to afford the cost of hunting at a place that has to charge a certain amount just to make the payments!!! Pretty sobering details when you look at it that way. Makes me want to encourage the local guy all the more to keep his land and charge me a little to help him and me out!!!!
UGUIDE
Active member
What's really scary is that what we charge today is based on 2002 land prices. At 2017 land prices, the UGUIDE model is not possible. Or, what we charge $1,000 for per man today would have to bring $4,000/man to make the current economics work.
The recreational buyer of land, present at auctions in the early 2000's, is gone. Just farmers now.
The ground around me is soybean stubble. Happy hunting because without a way to put habitat acres on the ground and get it paid for that is what you are faced with.
The recreational buyer of land, present at auctions in the early 2000's, is gone. Just farmers now.
The ground around me is soybean stubble. Happy hunting because without a way to put habitat acres on the ground and get it paid for that is what you are faced with.
UGUIDE
Active member
Let's say your assumption is right and 99% of the farms are handed down from generation to generation. Lot's and lot's of kids in that family tree that want hunting rights. And they will get first dibs for sure.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
Off topic.....Hunting numbers have about bottomed out. Women are the key to any future growth in the sport. IMO
Not here in NW Iowa, with a good down payment CRP is a money maker. Lots of lawyer ground around here.
PheasantWhisperer
Member
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