Best way for pointing dog to handle phez

. There's no such thing as "pure breed" all good breeders 'ADD'. :10sign: If you want a trial dog.

Yes and no. The belief is that Brits origins trace back to crossing two english pointing dogs. You are 100% correct that the brits of today are different then the brits of even 30 years ago. They have become a little taller, and longer legged (any idea how that happened :)), much like an EP or ES (believed to be the origin of Brits anyways). You can bet that people were breeding EP's and ES's into brits to get longer legged bigger running dogs. However, now that we have DNA evidence breeders can't exactly get away with that anymore. But, there are enough big running AA brits in the breed now to continue to get bigger and bigger running All Age dogs. Its really no different then breeding two labs who point to try and get pointing labs. Most folks don't realize that EP's and ES's used to point with their tails down. The 12 Oclock tail is something that has been breed into the two breeds.
 
Please help me to understand why you want a dog that far away. I have limited hunting experience in that all of my life I have hunted here on my land in South Dakota. I am sure it is different elsewhere and that is probably what I am missing. If my dog goes ahead of me shouldn't he stop at the first one he comes too? When I bought my Drahthaar the breeder told me about how far he would range in terms of hundreds of yards. I told him I wanted him to stay within shotgun range. He told me that I would have to train him that way and I did. If he ran out 200 yds he would have to pass by 30 pheasants getting there. We hunt all types of cover from heavy food plots to native pastures and he points birds the same.
 
The nice thing now days is DNA! Just because a Brit is a true All Age dog doesn't mean its been bread with an ES or EP.. At least not any more then the original breed which was created by crossing an ES. DNA makes it much, much harder to cheat... BTW.. Cheating has occured at every level of Field Trials. But that is a completely different subject that we could hash out for years!

Oldandnew. I agree with you 100% about trials and birds. Young birds are a piece of cake for pointers. Its the late season wild birds that give them fits. But remember, even when running dogs in the summers, there are a lot of those hold over older birds still out there, and they haven't forgot what its like to be shot at. IMO the perfect early season pheasant dog is any of the big running pointing breeds, and I prefer a dog who knows how to track and pin birds. I don't want a dog who ignores scent, and won't track even though they know a bird is not far away. It takes a lot of bumped birds for the dog to get to that point, but Ive seen first hand what a big running AA dog can do in the prairies when it comes to finding and pointing pheasants. Ill be in SD in 3 weeks to run my dog at the trainers off horse in the prairies, and then were going to spend a few days hunting sharptails off foot. When you go to a lot of trials, and then get to see what a pros string can do while running on wild pheasants and sharptail in the prairies, you really get to see the difference between what makes a dog good, and what makes a dog great. With that said, go to enough trials and its interesting to see how the different trainers dogs perform against eachother as well. Not all trainers are created equal, not by a long shot. Ill be honest though, If I had to pick the perfect late season pheasant dog, it wouldn't be one of the pointing breeds. During the late season with spooky birds, I think you will kill more birds over a close working lab or springer. Too many roosters just aren't going to hold for a point, if your not ontop of a pointing dog when it locks up, many of the late season birds are just going to walk out from under the point.. That won't happen with a flushing dog. A perfect example was last year when we spent a few days hunting public land in SD in December. My buddies Brittany (shes the direct daughter of Nolan's Last Bullet) locked up hard on a bird. My dad and he walked up for the flush, and you could see the bird run out from under the dog and go blowing through the grass. You couldn't actually see the bird, all you could see was the ripple through the grass as the bird ran into some heavier cover. We relocated the dogs but I think the bird flew off once it got behind the trees because the dogs lost the scent. If we would have been hunting over any of the flushing breeds, that bird would have been in the air and it would have been dead. On that trip we did get a lot of nice points, and killed a lot of nice birds over those points, but I think we would have killed more birds with flushing dogs.

my dogs better than your dog,,my dogs better than yours, my dogs better cause he eats kennel rations my dogs better than yours..;):rolleyes::eek:
 
Please help me to understand why you want a dog that far away. I have limited hunting experience in that all of my life I have hunted here on my land in South Dakota. I am sure it is different elsewhere and that is probably what I am missing. If my dog goes ahead of me shouldn't he stop at the first one he comes too? When I bought my Drahthaar the breeder told me about how far he would range in terms of hundreds of yards. I told him I wanted him to stay within shotgun range. He told me that I would have to train him that way and I did. If he ran out 200 yds he would have to pass by 30 pheasants getting there. We hunt all types of cover from heavy food plots to native pastures and he points birds the same.

haymaker, i'm with you.
 
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Please help me to understand why you want a dog that far away. I have limited hunting experience in that all of my life I have hunted here on my land in South Dakota. I am sure it is different elsewhere and that is probably what I am missing. If my dog goes ahead of me shouldn't he stop at the first one he comes too? When I bought my Drahthaar the breeder told me about how far he would range in terms of hundreds of yards. I told him I wanted him to stay within shotgun range. He told me that I would have to train him that way and I did. If he ran out 200 yds he would have to pass by 30 pheasants getting there. We hunt all types of cover from heavy food plots to native pastures and he points birds the same.

Haymaker, it is mostly personal preference or hunting style.

But in areas that don't have the kind of pheasant numbers you have in SD, it is helpful to have the dog cover more of the surrounding ground.

A major benefit to a good pointing dog is that they cover a lot of area, if you let them get out of gun range. But you have to have confidence in them that they will hold the bird so that you can get there.

A young or inexperience pointing dog on wild pheasants that have had some hunting pressure, can be frustrating for a while. The dogs are going to make some mistakes handling the birds.

If you want a pointing dog that handles wild pheasants, you got to get them into them and let them work it out. That means if they bump the bird up, you got to let the bird fly off, or you are going to teach them that they can bump the birds up. That is not something that you can have a dog that is out of range do, if you want any birds in the bag.

My experience on the ground that I hunt, is that range is good to the point at which you can't get to the dog before the bird decides to get out of there.
 
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Setter Nut

Thank you for that explanation. I guess I am spoiled. It would be fun and educational to see how it is done elsewhere. If anybody has video of dogs ranging that far and holding birds I would like to see that. I still think we should put together a video of the guys on this site as they hunt this fall. Maybe we could get a video of the hunt between Shadow and Jet Jockey and their dogs.
 
Setter Nut

Thank you for that explanation. I guess I am spoiled. It would be fun and educational to see how it is done elsewhere. If anybody has video of dogs ranging that far and holding birds I would like to see that. I still think we should put together a video of the guys on this site as they hunt this fall. Maybe we could get a video of the hunt between Shadow and Jet Jockey and their dogs.

You are spoiled. Thats why Im willing to drive 1300 miles to hunt in SD every year to hunt wild pheasants. You have no idea how lucky you guys are. Even Kansas doesn't have near the numbers of birds that SD has. I hunt a lot of quail down here in the south. Most bobwhites hold pretty darn well, so a big running pointing dog that knows how to run the edges will find a heck of a lot more birds then a 30 yard dog. Plus, Im lazy, I don't want to cover every square inch of a field on foot. A bigger running dog is going to cover a heck of a lot more ground, so you don't have to....

I just got off the phone with my trainer. I was offered a pup from him for free last fall because she was so small and he didn't think she would make a trial dog. Unfortunately my wife wouldn't let me bring her home, so I did the only logical thing, and called my dad.:D Turns out that little dog aint so little anymore. See, she's perfectly happy hanging out at 800+ yards off horse in the prairies with the occasional 1000+ yard cast! Guys breed and breed and breed to get a brittany like that, and my dad fell into one that I was offered for free! It kills me that little pup will never get a chance to run a trial, because she would find a ton of birds, and win a lot of All Age trials!
 
Setter Nut

Thank you for that explanation. I guess I am spoiled. It would be fun and educational to see how it is done elsewhere. If anybody has video of dogs ranging that far and holding birds I would like to see that. I still think we should put together a video of the guys on this site as they hunt this fall. Maybe we could get a video of the hunt between Shadow and Jet Jockey and their dogs.

been thinking about Jetjockeys last post to me- "which is it" will try to make a civil post to Jetjockey

these two head to head with your very best champion and your other FC
here in SW Kansas- on foot- 4 dogs down at all times- I have 2 square miles of private farm land, split up a bit, there are nice WIHA's within 8 miles- so- between now and the opener in November-

sort of- 2 FC's head to head with 2 just bird dogs-
of course the Garmins will tell how the dogs run
not a lot of pheasants arround here- so whichever dog could find, point, hold till flushed in a full morning time, would be considered a real good dog

anyone who wished could come along and hopefully have a cam corder and camera



 
Haymaker

Not all trial dogs would make a good walk behind hunting dog. If they don't adjust their range for the terrain and cover, you would shoot few pheasants because you would never get there soon enough. But a couple hundred yards in not a problem most of the time hunting pheasants.

I did not keep track last season, but I would bet that most of the pheasants I shot last season were pointed inside 120 yards but well outside gun range.

Also, some of the spot that we hunt a 800 yard dog is off the hunting area before you get started. A smart experienced dog will adjust to the situation.

But the breeding done for FT has done a lot for the guys that just hunt. They have improve almost every area of the dogs we have.

When I am hunting I like to watch the dog work, but not too close to me. The range I like depends on the cover you are in, and the type birds you are hunting.
 
This is all very informative. I relate to what you are saying in that when I do an evening hunt on native praire my dog stretches out a little because it is lighter cover, maybe 60 yds. What would you guys do in a 3 acre food plot surrounded by CRP. Maybe you would not even hunt it. You probably are not interested in what I call the big explosion where you don't know which bird to shoot as that probably is not condusive to the kind of dog work that you are looking for. Is that correct.
 
This is all very informative. I relate to what you are saying in that when I do an evening hunt on native praire my dog stretches out a little because it is lighter cover, maybe 60 yds. What would you guys do in a 3 acre food plot surrounded by CRP. Maybe you would not even hunt it. You probably are not interested in what I call the big explosion where you don't know which bird to shoot as that probably is not condusive to the kind of dog work that you are looking for. Is that correct.

I would hunt that 3 acreas with a flushing dog that never got out more than 25 yards- or no dog at all- not a place for a pointing dog
 
This is all very informative. I relate to what you are saying in that when I do an evening hunt on native praire my dog stretches out a little because it is lighter cover, maybe 60 yds. What would you guys do in a 3 acre food plot surrounded by CRP. Maybe you would not even hunt it. You probably are not interested in what I call the big explosion where you don't know which bird to shoot as that probably is not condusive to the kind of dog work that you are looking for. Is that correct.

When there are that many birds around, I don't think the dog would have much chance to get way out there, the should find a bird before that.

I have only seen on "Big Explosions" on pheasants. It caused me to go back to the house to change shorts :D

I will say that when you have a lot of pheasants running around in are fairly small area, that is pretty tough on a young pointing dog.

As far as hunting 3 acres in the middle of a bunch of CRP, I would love it. Drive them out of the foodplot and let the dog run on them in the CRP
 
i think having a smart well trained animal and handler is the key.
dog should stop upon the first scent. some days the scent is better than others. no dog should run past the first bird scented. :confused: dog will learn to reposition a moving bird if it has any breeding worth a darn. if not get rid of it and move on;)
 
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When there are that many birds around, I don't think the dog would have much chance to get way out there, the should find a bird before that.

I have only seen on "Big Explosions" on pheasants. It caused me to go back to the house to change shorts :D

I will say that when you have a lot of pheasants running around in are fairly small area, that is pretty tough on a young pointing dog.

As far as hunting 3 acres in the middle of a bunch of CRP, I would love it. Drive them out of the foodplot and let the dog run on them in the CRP

I have a quarter of CRP that has 3 food plots in it. There are some shorthair guys that come and hunt the food plots then they go have a sandwich and water their dogs and then go back and hunt the CRP. They might spend all day on that one quarter and they are as happy as can be.
 
I have a quarter of CRP that has 3 food plots in it. There are some shorthair guys that come and hunt the food plots then they go have a sandwich and water their dogs and then go back and hunt the CRP. They might spend all day on that one quarter and they are as happy as can be.

sounds like a nice day a field!!:cheers:
 
This is all very informative. I relate to what you are saying in that when I do an evening hunt on native praire my dog stretches out a little because it is lighter cover, maybe 60 yds. What would you guys do in a 3 acre food plot surrounded by CRP. Maybe you would not even hunt it. You probably are not interested in what I call the big explosion where you don't know which bird to shoot as that probably is not condusive to the kind of dog work that you are looking for. Is that correct.

I would hunt that 3 acreas with a flushing dog that never got out more than 25 yards- or no dog at all- not a place for a pointing dog

I agree with Beaglebog 100%!

Id hunt the heck out of it. Just because a dog can run big doesn't mean it has to run big. I have a video of my dog doing nearly the exact same thing you are talking about on wild birds on a nice SD evening during summer camp in September. She was only about 14 months old at the time, and having that many birds jump up is hard on any pointing dog, let alone a 14 month old dog. The dog just has to have a lot of wild bird work and be able to handle birds. The area was only about 2 or 3 acres. You can see 10 birds flush on the video, but there were probably 30+ total that got up, not a huge SD jail break, but not bad either. I could have limited easily in that one small area. The key is that a dog has to be broke to flush and totally under control. Heres the link, Im not sure how to attach it directly to this post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eNwQaT7xnU&feature=related
 
jetjockey

That was really nice work for a young dog. I would like to get my setter into more pheasants, we hunt quail most of the time. Pheasant exposure is mostly by accident, as we are a little to far east for good pheasant numbers.
 
I agree with Beaglebog 100%!

Id hunt the heck out of it. Just because a dog can run big doesn't mean it has to run big. I have a video of my dog doing nearly the exact same thing you are talking about on wild birds on a nice SD evening during summer camp in September. She was only about 14 months old at the time, and having that many birds jump up is hard on any pointing dog, let alone a 14 month old dog. The dog just has to have a lot of wild bird work and be able to handle birds. The area was only about 2 or 3 acres. You can see 10 birds flush on the video, but there were probably 30+ total that got up, not a huge SD jail break, but not bad either. I could have limited easily in that one small area. The key is that a dog has to be broke to flush and totally under control. Heres the link, Im not sure how to attach it directly to this post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eNwQaT7xnU&feature=related

nice steady animal:thumbsup:
 
nice steady animal:thumbsup:

Gotta agree with ya BB........ a good steady pointer that the owner has control of should be the right combination.
 
jetjockey- not sure why you included my words in that post

I sit here and look at the 1/4 mile of wheat- which was corn stubble last year- has a nice stretch of 24-32" tall grass at the end that is 160 yards wide tapering to 40 yards wide at the end of the 1/2 mile

I always try to keep my Britt's out of it- because with 3 Britt's I can shoot 4 roosters in 10 or so min- isn't any fun for me or the Britt's

not sure why those guys would ever come back in the same day- we run it- every rooster and hen is gone by the time we cover it well- never seen a pheasant come back untill the evening to roost- matter of fact every pheasant left it alone for a day or so- must be tame pheasants
 
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