Best way for pointing dog to handle phez

Heres a video of my Brit her first year of summer camp in S. Dakota. In this video she was 14 months old, and had been trained on wild birds for 2 months. We just dropped her off for her third summer of camp. She spends a lot of time on the Brittany trial circuit, and I also foot hunt her. I want a dog that learns how to track, and pin birds down. Flash pointing dogs are great, but I want a dog who knows there is a bird in front of them as well ( you won't get as many false points). In this video, she knows there are birds infront of her, but they are still walking on her. You can then see her speed up until the birds lockup. The birds held tight until we walked up and then they started jumping all over (one bird flushed early, but easily within gun range). IMG]<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6eNwQaT7xnU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/IMG]


Heres a link.. Cant figure out how to embed the video without looking at the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eNwQaT7xnU
 
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jetjockey said:
Heres a video of my Brit her first year of summer camp in S. Dakota. In this video she was 14 months old, and had been trained on wild birds for 2 months. We just dropped her off for her third summer of camp. She spends a lot of time on the Brittany trial circuit, and I also foot hunt her. I want a dog that learns how to track, and pin birds down. Flash pointing dogs are great, but I want a dog who knows there is a bird in front of them as well ( you won't get as many false points). In this video, she knows there are birds infront of her, but they are still walking on her. You can then see her speed up until the birds lockup. The birds held tight until we walked up and then they started jumping all over (one bird flushed early, but easily within gun range). IMG]<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6eNwQaT7xnU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/IMG]


Heres a link.. Cant figure out how to embed the video without looking at the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eNwQaT7xnU
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What I see in your video is your dog,s head up working Air sent! relocating ! Not head down tracking foot sent.
 
wesslpointer said:
What I see in your video is your dog,s head up working Air sent! relocating ! Not head down tracking foot sent.
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Amen! Just what I want my Brittany to do. Those birds were spooky and moving. The dog let the master know there were birds present and then stayed composed as the all flushing went on. Excellent dog.
 
BritChaser said:
Amen! Just what I want my Brittany to do. Those birds were spooky and moving. The dog let the master know there were birds present and then stayed composed as the all flushing went on. Excellent dog.
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Exactly. Most people can't always tell the difference. When there is that many birds around, and scents are criss crossing the ground, and the air, its tough on a dog. Tracking a single is easy for a dog, but when they start crossing back and fourth it makes it much more difficult. You can see my pups head down, then head up, then head down. It takes a lot of time on wild birds for a dog not to give up and just best them.
 
JMc said:
D: All the Above. I think conditions warrant different styles of hunting for a well trained GSP. I have experience great points within 10 feet and up to 40 feet. I have also had them in a snow pack standing right on top of a bird...funniest thing I've ever seen. Imagine a hunting dog that finds his prey beneath his feet. Baffled the crap out of him but he did not move. He started to jump up and down with his front feet. Funny as heck.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it...
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:thumbsup: Agree.

I also have enjoyed a few 6" points at birds that had dug in under the snow... By far, my favorite!:D Nothing quite matches the chaos of a bird flushing at the nose of the dog AND the feet of the gunner in a cloud of snow. Love, love, love that snow!!!;)

Any style is probably effective as long as the hunter knows his dog so both are on the same page. My personal preference would be for a close-pointing, self-relocating "meat dog". But then that's the type of dog I have...;) I guess if I had a point-and-hold-on-first-scent dog, then that would be my favorite.:thumbsup:
 
there are some who think take a young dog and get them into pheasants and let them figure it out- many say it takes 30 some wild pheasants before a dog really learns- if it has anything

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jeffstally- thanks- my city slicker kid brother asked if my Britt's could point a pheasant- I said grab your camera- we were walking side by side- hadn't seen my kid brother in 3 years- let the youngster out with the Garmin on as we talked-

ahh Mark- point- he's out there aways- a long ways
we walk- my coment- you think you can get a good picture- kid brother ignores me-

this fella is young- but he's been locked up for at least 20 min- I approach- watching his eyes- I step right in front of him- rooster comes up- instinct as I see this beautifull rooster rise right there- I feel I have a gun and start to swing- he's cackling and so close I think I should reach out

I turn- did you get that- kid brother is all grins-

he sent me the picture when he got back to Los Angles-
always will be in the fondest memories of my kid brother when he came to visit me and cared to go out in a field to watch a bird dog
 
This is just my 2 cents from year and years of hunting wild birds over many different types of pointing dog breeds, and hunting with different buddies. My personal opinoin is you are always going to kill more wild birds with a dog that's going to relocate on his/her own.

The dog has a much better idea of where the birds are than we do. We all want pheasants to hold perfectly and never move, but that's just not reality. My buddies who do all the testing always make fun of my "meat dog" but me and my dog will kill 5 birds to their 2 every single time.

My dad and I have trained many dogs over the years. Young dogs are going to bump birds, that's just a fact. Most of them figure over time if they go charging after a running bird, it's not going to get killed. They learn to slow down and ease up on the birds that are moving.
 
Did anyone read Steve Smith's article in Retriever Journal about pheasant dogs?

He said that if he was in a competition to bag the most roosters in a field, he would pick his lab over a pointing dog every time, but if it was to go for style he would take the pointers. It was an interesting article.
 
ehudgens said:
This is just my 2 cents from year and years of hunting wild birds over many different types of pointing dog breeds, and hunting with different buddies. My personal opinoin is you are always going to kill more wild birds with a dog that's going to relocate on his/her own.

The dog has a much better idea of where the birds are than we do. We all want pheasants to hold perfectly and never move, but that's just not reality. My buddies who do all the testing always make fun of my "meat dog" but me and my dog will kill 5 birds to their 2 every single time.

My dad and I have trained many dogs over the years. Young dogs are going to bump birds, that's just a fact. Most of them figure over time if they go charging after a running bird, it's not going to get killed. They learn to slow down and ease up on the birds that are moving.
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:thumbsup: You can teach your dog to turn "not come back" turn on elc buzz. Every time he bumps or a bird jumps wild turn him DONT let him chase!! When he under stands that the only way he gets a bird is when he hold's and you shoot you well have a " WILD BIRD" bird dog. Pen raised birds are another matter better of teaching them to stand them.
 
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interesting- I know of NSTRA Pointer who was entered in a pheasant run and gun competition- 4 roosters shot and retrieved in 15 min- they were accused of cheating- he just said- you need better dogs

these fields arround here- I have to say- come hunt with me Rick- 5 shells should be plenty for a limit
 
jeffstally said:
Did anyone read Steve Smith's article in Retriever Journal about pheasant dogs?

He said that if he was in a competition to bag the most roosters in a field, he would pick his lab over a pointing dog every time, but if it was to go for style he would take the pointers. It was an interesting article.
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It is interesting that he just doesint get a dog that's both? :rolleyes:
 
ehudgens said:
This is just my 2 cents from year and years of hunting wild birds over many different types of pointing dog breeds, and hunting with different buddies. My personal opinoin is you are always going to kill more wild birds with a dog that's going to relocate on his/her own.

The dog has a much better idea of where the birds are than we do. We all want pheasants to hold perfectly and never move, but that's just not reality. My buddies who do all the testing always make fun of my "meat dog" but me and my dog will kill 5 birds to their 2 every single time.

My dad and I have trained many dogs over the years. Young dogs are going to bump birds, that's just a fact. Most of them figure over time if they go charging after a running bird, it's not going to get killed. They learn to slow down and ease up on the birds that are moving.
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you haven't seen NSTRA dogs have you-

I've had English Setters, English Pointers, American Brittany's- I've trained 2 of them- self relocating- pretty soon you have a dog that blinks, creeps, never really freezes up 1/2 the time, false poits, tracks, can take you all over a 1/2 mile field- I'll takle one that freezes and doesn't move unless told to or knows the bird had left and it was only recently fresh scent-

you are correct in saying a young dog will figure it out- providing the one who is handling the dog knows what he's doing-
you don't think a couple young pointing dogs can locate and freeze a rooster- perhaps you might think different if you walked with someone who had a pointing dog who froze on scent and didn't relocate-

I've got a picture of my youngster pinning a wild pheasant- dad was backing
 
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Shadow said:
you haven't seen NSTRA dogs have you-

I've had English Setters, English Pointers, American Brittany's- I've trained 2 of them- self relocating- pretty soon you have a dog that blinks, creeps, never really freezes up 1/2 the time, false poits, tracks, can take you all over a 1/2 mile field- I'll takle one that freezes and doesn't move unless told to or knows the bird had left and it was only recently fresh scent-

you are correct in saying a young dog will figure it out- providing the one who is handling the dog knows what he's doing-
you don't think a couple young pointing dogs can locate and freeze a rooster- perhaps you might think different if you walked with someone who had a pointing dog who froze on scent and didn't relocate-

I've got a picture of my youngster pinning a wild pheasant- dad was backing
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Are you talking about wild or pen raised. Its my understanding that NSTRA only uses pen raised? Blinking and creeping are usually man made problems. Tracking, false points and "freezing" are usually type or breed of dog? You can train a dog to relocate as well as lock up.
 
This has been an interesting thread. There are several different opinions or personal preferences. They all work to one degree or another.

My current Setter is a stop on first body scent dog. I don't have many birds that are bumped, but there are times that the birds move off and I have to relocate him. There are times that they escape out the end of the field.

But a buddy of mine has a GSP that is a creeper / self relocator. When he gets birdy, a bird is going to come up most of the time, but often it is well out of range.

We both shoot our share of birds. But I much prefer my dogs style of pointing and waiting for me to relocate him if I can't flush the bird. I don't shoot birds that the dog hasn't pointed and let me flush, so I think I shoot more birds than I would if I hunted with his GSP.

This was a picture from the last weekend of the season. This pheasant was pointed, but moved off before my son got there, He was relocated, and I took this picture just before my son flushed and shot the bird. It might be faster if the dog relocate on his own, but speed is not what I am after.
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You're killing me !!!!!!

You're getting my throat dry!!! Great pic!!! I can't wait!!:10sign::10sign:
 
SetterNut said:
This has been an interesting thread. There are several different opinions or personal preferences. They all work to one degree or another.

My current Setter is a stop on first body scent dog. I don't have many birds that are bumped, but there are times that the birds move off and I have to relocate him. There are times that they escape out the end of the field.

But a buddy of mine has a GSP that is a creeper / self relocator. When he gets birdy, a bird is going to come up most of the time, but often it is well out of range.

We both shoot our share of birds. But I much prefer my dogs style of pointing and waiting for me to relocate him if I can't flush the bird. I don't shoot birds that the dog hasn't pointed and let me flush, so I think I shoot more birds than I would if I hunted with his GSP.

This was a picture from the last weekend of the season. This pheasant was pointed, but moved off before my son got there, He was relocated, and I took this picture just before my son flushed and shot the bird. It might be faster if the dog relocate on his own, but speed is not what I am after.
Norton11_10.jpg
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It sounds to me that your buddy GSP is trailing or "chaseing" not relocating to pin the bird with A solid point.
 
jeffstally said:
Did anyone read Steve Smith's article in Retriever Journal about pheasant dogs?

He said that if he was in a competition to bag the most roosters in a field, he would pick his lab over a pointing dog every time, but if it was to go for style he would take the pointers. It was an interesting article.
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I read it, and I have to agree. Who would argue that hunting thick cover with a lab is effective, or that pointing dogs have style? I would say the same thing if I had a good lab or a stylish pointing dog.:laugh: However, I have a geriatric golden and a meat-dog GWP. I get birds too, so there's plenty of ways to skin a cat.

I don't put much of a price tag on "style" honestly.:eek: I think the most important quality that bags pheasants is teamwork. If your dog is really hunting for you and you know your dog well and do your part to help him out, then that is a tough team to beat.
 
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