Why those fence lines must go.

[bknight]

Not directing this comment to anyone specific but to all as a general comment. It is meant to all as a "THANK YOU!" for the very informative thread that IMO should be required reading for all Upland game hunters and farmers across the land!

You all have raised some interesting points, and It is my prayer that many will take the time to read it and get educated! I certainly do thank all of you for the education you have given me. Unfortunately, I do not have any influence over any property in any state but Georgia. My Friend in Nebraska has had to sell his farm and move to town, keeping only forty acres of CRP which I can still hunt and love to do so! He was always concerned for the wildlife and was a great steward of the land.

When my wife and I were out to Kansas last year which was our first, we remarked at how all the communities were inhabited by an aging population as the young moved to town to get better jobs. We were saddened to realize it and know that it will one day "cost" us all, and that "but for the grace of God, there go I." We loved our visit in Kansas and the friendliness of the people we met. I think the whole state could benefit by better managing of the land for diversity of crops and wildlife, but my telling you guys how to do it would be like the "batboy telling Babe Ruth how to bat!" I will keep up with this thread.

I know little of Pheasants Forever and any other such organizations, but it sure sounds to me like some of you are immanently qualified to do so, and ought to get to the meetings of them and other farming organizations and educate folks like you have done here on this thread. Thanks for tollerating me and my ignorance thus far. This ought to be a "Sticky"thread!

 

[1pheas4]

I agree Bknight; it's been a good thread with great discussion.

Despite the title:cheers:

 

[Fred74]

$2.25 is fine, that would mean they are donating $1500 to pheasant habitat. Again how many of us donate that amount to the cause?

$1500-$3000, for the average Joe isn't very realistic. I think quite a few PF chapters donate seed for cover. I couldn't say how much this accounts for in dollars per county, but it's a good reason to support your local PF.

 

[greyghost]

O and N,
I agree with you because you seem to be knowledgable in your field and facts. My beef would be, that even if I could afford to donate $1500.00 a year, over and above my licenses, shotshells, motels, food etc., How much of my donation goes to farmers that won't even let me hunt on thier land. The resource is public domain (ours ) but we can't use it because it's on thier land and that's true with big game and fishing as well.
The entire idea of the land owner making a profit off of something that I have already paid for and belongs to me turns my stomach. That is why I don't hire guides or pay for outfitters or other kinds of hunts.

 

[Fred74]

Not directing this comment to anyone specific but to all as a general comment. It is meant to all as a "THANK YOU!" for the very informative thread that IMO should be required reading for all Upland game hunters and farmers across the land!

You all have raised some interesting points, and It is my prayer that many will take the time to read it and get educated! I certainly do thank all of you for the education you have given me. Unfortunately, I do not have any influence over any property in any state but Georgia. My Friend in Nebraska has had to sell his farm and move to town, keeping only forty acres of CRP which I can still hunt and love to do so! He was always concerned for the wildlife and was a great steward of the land.

When my wife and I were out to Kansas last year which was our first, we remarked at how all the communities were inhabited by an aging population as the young moved to town to get better jobs. We were saddened to realize it and know that it will one day "cost" us all, and that "but for the grace of God, there go I." We loved our visit in Kansas and the friendliness of the people we met. I think the whole state could benefit by better managing of the land for diversity of crops and wildlife, but my telling you guys how to do it would be like the "batboy telling Babe Ruth how to bat!" I will keep up with this thread.

I know little of Pheasants Forever and any other such organizations, but it sure sounds to me like some of you are immanently qualified to do so, and ought to get to the meetings of them and other farming organizations and educate folks like you have done here on this thread. Thanks for tollerating me and my ignorance thus far. This ought to be a "Sticky"thread!

Please support your local PF, if you have one. The money your chapter raises stays local, unlike DU. Afew years back PF was one of the highest rated nonprofits by a watchdog group. PF was putting something like 95%+ of their monies back into conservation.

 

[haymaker]

O and N,
I agree with you because you seem to be knowledgable in your field and facts. My beef would be, that even if I could afford to donate $1500.00 a year, over and above my licenses, shotshells, motels, food etc., How much of my donation goes to farmers that won't even let me hunt on thier land. The resource is public domain (ours ) but we can't use it because it's on thier land and that's true with big game and fishing as well.
The entire idea of the land owner making a profit off of something that I have already paid for and belongs to me turns my stomach. That is why I don't hire guides or pay for outfitters or other kinds of hunts.

I understand every point that you made, but I would like to add a couple more. Last year I left 20 acres of corn for winter pheasant feed. With the winter we had they needed it. We probably wintered around a thousand birds last year. If we had not left that corn out there for them there would not have been many birds make it through the winter and the thing that you have already paid for and belongs to you would have been dead and eaten by whatever. Where would have you been then. Now if you take 20 acres times 100 bushels times $6 equals 1000 live pheasants. Does it turn your stomach that I left $12000 plus the cost of planting and keeping the weeds under control standing to take care of your pheasants. This year when bird numbers are down my hunters are having a good time. Yes I want a return on my investment but at least there are still birds here and alot of hunters had some fun and made some memories when they got to watch their grandson shoot his first pheasant. Again I understand and respect your points but it looks to me like the way farmers are farming the pheasant hunters best friends are people who make it a business and the cattleman that gets them through the winter. These are just my thoughts maybe I am wrong.

 

[oldandnew]

I understand every point that you made, but I would like to add a couple more. Last year I left 20 acres of corn for winter pheasant feed. With the winter we had they needed it. We probably wintered around a thousand birds last year. If we had not left that corn out there for them there would not have been many birds make it through the winter and the thing that you have already paid for and belongs to you would have been dead and eaten by whatever. Where would have you been then. Now if you take 20 acres times 100 bushels times $6 equals 1000 live pheasants. Does it turn your stomach that I left $12000 plus the cost of planting and keeping the weeds under control standing to take care of your pheasants. This year when bird numbers are down my hunters are having a good time. Yes I want a return on my investment but at least there are still birds here and alot of hunters had some fun and made some memories when they got to watch their grandson shoot his first pheasant. Again I understand and respect your points but it looks to me like the way farmers are farming the pheasant hunters best friends are people who make it a business and the cattleman that gets them through the winter. These are just my thoughts maybe I am wrong.

It's time we all realize that the era of free lunch is over, if it ever existed at all. More likely traditional agricultural practices allowed our birds and sport to live on the margins. Very few margins left. More than likely if you have good bird hunting now SOMEBODY is paying a cost to provide it! Maybe not you, but somebody, be it Federal, State, or as in this case an individual who makes a calculated sacrifice to provide for wildlife. Why should we support this private operation? Because every repository of wildlife habitat helps fill the void in the habitat around it! Those birds move, they don't call it wildlife for nothing! The bird you kill a mile down the road may well have wintered in that private corn field you can't hunt. Instead of lamenting the refuge you might subsidize and can't hunt we ought to be encouraging more! In case anybody is in doubt we need all the help we can get.

 

[1pheas4]

Those birds move, they don't call it wildlife for nothing! The bird you kill a mile down the road may well have wintered in that private corn field you can't hunt. Instead of lamenting the refuge you might subsidize and can't hunt we ought to be encouraging more! In case anybody is in doubt we need all the help we can get.

Yes! Every bit counts. Food plots, unharvested crops, wide fence rows, hedgerows, nesting cover, large yards converted to native grasses and wild flowers, wintering cover, wetlands. It all plays into boosting bird #'s.

Whether it's 5, 10, 20, or 400 acres. Heck, even an acres or two can serve as a safety point for birds as they move from one field to the next.

We know by now that field fragmentation has played havoc with our pheasant populations. This is one reason I've suggested to home owners who own a 5 to 20 acre yard out in the country to consider removing their turf grass and install upland habitat.

I've seen a few of these properties within the county I reside. Not only are these properties sheltering birds, many are producing birds!

This may be nothing else but a dream, but could you imagine if even 20%-30% of rural home owners converted their turf grass into native grasses and wild flowers? Just imagine the explosion of pheasants and other wildlife we could witness.

 

[Fred74]

I understand every point that you made, but I would like to add a couple more. Last year I left 20 acres of corn for winter pheasant feed. With the winter we had they needed it. We probably wintered around a thousand birds last year. If we had not left that corn out there for them there would not have been many birds make it through the winter and the thing that you have already paid for and belongs to you would have been dead and eaten by whatever. Where would have you been then. Now if you take 20 acres times 100 bushels times $6 equals 1000 live pheasants. Does it turn your stomach that I left $12000 plus the cost of planting and keeping the weeds under control standing to take care of your pheasants. This year when bird numbers are down my hunters are having a good time. Yes I want a return on my investment but at least there are still birds here and alot of hunters had some fun and made some memories when they got to watch their grandson shoot his first pheasant. Again I understand and respect your points but it looks to me like the way farmers are farming the pheasant hunters best friends are people who make it a business and the cattleman that gets them through the winter. These are just my thoughts maybe I am wrong.

First and foremost I would like to say thanks for leaving the 20 acres of corn in, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I wish more people were like you. I have never hunted in SD, although would someday like to, or even relocate there. Please don't think I'm taking a shot at you, but you asked if it "turned" oldandnew's stomach that you left $12000 worth of corn in. I would like to know if it turned yours ?, obviously you did it for a reason. If it doesn't bother you, it shouldn't bother oldandnew. I can honestly tell you that kind of thing doesn't happen here in Iowa unless it's an isolated incidence from flooding, early heavy snowfalls etc. We do have areas where the state pays farmers to leave a snow fence in, but without cover near, it doesn't really matter for the pheasant. What "turns" my stomach, is seeing old barns, farm houses, groves etc bulldozed and also the fences pulled, kinda wrecks the beauty, habitat and landscape. I don't blame the farmer, just hate how things have changed ! I hope you keep leaving the standing corn in year after year, and also SD pheasant hunting never dips to Iowa's current levels , because without knowing you, I could honestly say "that would turn your stomach" !

I'll tell you what really breaks my heart. I have a 15yr old daughter that likes to hunt and fish. I take her pheaasant hunting as often as it allows, but so far we haven't had good luck for her. She says she has fun, but I think she doesn't want me to feel bad. After every hunt I ask her if it was fun, she says yes, but has that blank look on her face. How the heck do we get the kids off the couch and in the outdoors, if hunting keeps declining like it is.

 

[Fred74]

It's time we all realize that the era of free lunch is over, if it ever existed at all. More likely traditional agricultural practices allowed our birds and sport to live on the margins. Very few margins left. More than likely if you have good bird hunting now SOMEBODY is paying a cost to provide it! Maybe not you, but somebody, be it Federal, State, or as in this case an individual who makes a calculated sacrifice to provide for wildlife. Why should we support this private operation? Because every repository of wildlife habitat helps fill the void in the habitat around it! Those birds move, they don't call it wildlife for nothing! The bird you kill a mile down the road may well have wintered in that private corn field you can't hunt. Instead of lamenting the refuge you might subsidize and can't hunt we ought to be encouraging more! In case anybody is in doubt we need all the help we can get.

Like Bob Dylan sang " The times are a changin "

 

[1pheas4]

She says she has fun, but I think she doesn't want me to feel bad. After every hunt I ask her if it was fun, she says yes, but has that blank look on her face. How the heck do we get the kids off the couch and in the outdoors, if hunting keeps declining like it is.

LOL. If my daughter turns out to be anything like her mom there's no way I'm getting her out and into the outdoors. I think I'm going to be in the same boat your in Fred.

Some kids don't have the personality for hunting and fishing.

 

[Fred74]

LOL. If my daughter turns out to be anything like her mom there's no way I'm getting her out and into the outdoors. I think I'm going to be in the same boat your in Fred.

Some kids don't have the personality for hunting and fishing.

I know for a fact that my daughter loves to hunt and fish, but her getting skunked everytime we go pheasant hunting is depressing for both of us.

I started her very young. At least if she ever moves to the big city and becomes city slicker, she'll know that hunting is morally acceptable.:thumbsup:

 

[haymaker]

First and foremost I would like to say thanks for leaving the 20 acres of corn in, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I wish more people were like you. I have never hunted in SD, although would someday like to, or even relocate there. Please don't think I'm taking a shot at you, but you asked if it "turned" oldandnew's stomach that you left $12000 worth of corn in. I would like to know if it turned yours ?, obviously you did it for a reason. If it doesn't bother you, it shouldn't bother oldandnew. I can honestly tell you that kind of thing doesn't happen here in Iowa unless it's an isolated incidence from flooding, early heavy snowfalls etc. We do have areas where the state pays farmers to leave a snow fence in, but without cover near, it doesn't really matter for the pheasant. What "turns" my stomach, is seeing old barns, farm houses, groves etc bulldozed and also the fences pulled, kinda wrecks the beauty, habitat and landscape. I don't blame the farmer, just hate how things have changed ! I hope you keep leaving the standing corn in year after year, and also SD pheasant hunting never dips to Iowa's current levels , because without knowing you, I could honestly say "that would turn your stomach" !

I'll tell you what really breaks my heart. I have a 15yr old daughter that likes to hunt and fish. I take her pheaasant hunting as often as it allows, but so far we haven't had good luck for her. She says she has fun, but I think she doesn't want me to feel bad. After every hunt I ask her if it was fun, she says yes, but has that blank look on her face. How the heck do we get the kids off the couch and in the outdoors, if hunting keeps declining like it is.

Actually it was Grey Ghost that I was addressing. No it did not bother me to leave the corn in the field I wish that it hadn't got burried with snow, it fed them for most of the winter though. It was an investment for the future and it paid off because guys are rebooking their hunts for next year. I just hope we don't have another tough winter. The way the muskrat houses are it looks like it will be a deep one.

 

[Fred74]

Actually it was Grey Ghost that I was addressing. No it did not bother me to leave the corn in the field I wish that it hadn't got burried with snow, it fed them for most of the winter though. It was an investment for the future and it paid off because guys are rebooking their hunts for next year. I just hope we don't have another tough winter. The way the muskrat houses are it looks like it will be a deep one.

I know Minnesota is expecting another year with above average snowfall,
I haven't heard how far south that will extend. If Iowa has another tough winter. our pheasants may pratically be non-existent next season. Our roadside count last year was the lowest in recorded history at 11 birds per 30mile route, this year it was 6.8 per route.

I'm glad their are still some farmers/conservationists like yourself.:thumbsup:

 

[1pheas4]

. I just hope we don't have another tough winter. The way the muskrat houses are it looks like it will be a deep one.

I think we're all on board with that haymaker. Less snow this winter will help along with less rain in the spring. These wet springs of our have been devastating to nesting birds. If these cold snowy winters and overly wet springs continue on as they have the past few years I fear the worst for our pheasant populations.

 

[mnmthunting]

We all need the snow to hold off, the longer the better. For the sake of the birds. A year ago over the Northern pheasant range we were experiencing heavy snow and -20 temps. So far this Fall, much! much! better. And no heavy stuff in the 2 week forecast. We all know how fast things change.

 

[BritChaser]

Hunted some really hairy fence lines on the KS opener and found birds.

 

[UGUIDE]

Absolutely. Cattle provide what pheasants need to survive the winter. If you add some nesting habitat to that you have a winner. I have said this before but it is true. SAVE A PHEASANT EAT A STEAK The new slogan for Pheasants Forever.

I buy a ribeye at Krull's market everytime I roll into Armour. $5.99 LB When they ring it up at the till a rooster cackles.

 

[SDJIM]

While we are sitting here lamenting the low pheasant numbers and lack of habitat he often point the finger at changing farm pratices for this loss. Such as the loss of fence lines. Certainly the loss of fence lines does not help the pheasant numbers, but lets look at it from the producers prospective.

A quarter of land has 2 miles of fence line.

One extra row of corn planted in place of that fence means an extra 6/10 of an acre of crop production.

At $5.50 corn thats an extra $300 per quarter.

The average SD farmer farms almost 10 quarters.

Thats $3000.

How many of us donate $3000 for pheasant habitat.

The world corn reserve is est. to be 123.43 milliom metric tons on 1 Oct 2012 or just 52 days of consumption as reported by Bloomberg News.

With drought from Mexico to Argentina the predicted price of corn will be near $7 a BUSHEL, so for the second straight year demand will out pace production.

My guess is that a lot of land is going to get corn planted on it and lots from fence row to fence row & corn planted on top of corn ( no rotation).

 

[onpoint]

Who cares? I'll go elsewhere and hunt other fowl. It'
s that simple