Why those fence lines must go.

My two cents worth

Here we go again--its not as easy as that. Not all of a farm is in a program, ours for example is near a thousand acres yet only about 140 of that is in CRP and its mostly the marginal ground. Having said that if it were not for the the CRP program it would be farmed. We get less(in some cases lots less) in gov. payments than we can get by leaseing it to a farmer and then there is the fact that by doing that we pay the costs of weed control and everything else that goes wrong. Just the pest conrtol (weeds) cost us around $1500 a year and that does not count the loss of less rent by the gov vs a farmer. On top of that you can't adjust the rent to the gov if land prices/rent goes up. So why do it? BECAUSE THE BOTTOM LINE IS NOT EVERYTHING. We had a renter that farmed fence row to fence row--it sucked the farm just had a sterile feel to it and now its alive again.

Kill CRP amd like programs and we will all end up regretting it. Just my two cents worth:D
 
Amen, Coot. After the government pays them to drain and tile, they will pay them to restore the "critical" wetlands. Albeit at a fraction of their former size and productivity. Don't forget the tax increment financed commercial developers either! Right now if you claim to create jobs, the government will support stripmining. Future be D#*&$^.
 
moellermd said:
Keep in mind that the only thing preventing farmers from tiling everything under the sun is the farm program.
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Someone please help me with this. I was under the impression (obviously a misinformed one) that after the dust bowl citizens using land for farming purposes were required by law to leave fence/hedge rows to help prevent another catastrophic loss of top soil.

What happen? Are those laws no longer in place or are they just being ignored?
 
I can tell you what happened to farm soil conservation in two words, Earl Butts! Secretary of Ag under Nixon told farmers to farm roadside to roadside, grow as much as possible, that the government would sell the crop for them. We would be the breadbasket to the world. They took his word for it. Even after the disaterous grain embargo by the Carter presidency, the momentum of big equipment, big debt, and high input costs continues on. Just as decisions made today by government will not be fully felt for 20-50 years from now. Note the timeline here, the last decent upland populations were in the mid to late 70's in many states, the precipitous gamebird decline began right then.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
According to the farmer that works for me, he gets 18-20 dollars per acre for being in the farm program. Now, a small farm around here may be 1000 acres, that's half the income of many people just for being in the biz. I think that is a lot of $.
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you know his name just go here and find out:

http://farm.ewg.org/search.php?fips=...SubsidySummary

I don't know how many of you get the Pheasants Forever Jornal Of Upland Conservation Magazine but look in the FAll 2011 under the Readers Opinions on page 5.By Dennis Mayer. I haven't found my summer mag. to read what Mr. Clayton said but I take offense that we do not help out the farmers. I also treat their land with respect.
I also have calls from hunters who want to rent my house because they have hunted some farmers land for 10 to 20 years and now they got the boot!
I hear alot of anger in his words especially when he said how would Clayton feel to useing his back yard for a hog roast. He can use mine!
Look how much in subsidies a the guy from Grackle ND has gotten for the last 15years.
I can only speak for myself But all I want is some land to hunt with my dogs and get a few pheasants for the freezer. Why is that such a struggle and it only comes around once a year.

I am not here to start anything but I guess I am fustrated on what to do. I would like to hunt SD more but cannot afford to pay to hunt. I hope that doesn't get started in other states too.
I am fortunate for what I have after reading that some of you sleep in the back of your trucks with your dogs just to be able to get a chance to hunt.

I live breath pheasant hunting!

Lazlo
 
oldandnew said:
I can tell you what happened to farm soil conservation in two words, Earl Butts! Secretary of Ag under Nixon told farmers to farm roadside to roadside, grow as much as possible, that the government would sell the crop for them. We would be the breadbasket to the world. They took his word for it. Even after the disaterous grain embargo by the Carter presidency, the momentum of big equipment, big debt, and high input costs continues on. Just as decisions made today by government will not be fully felt for 20-50 years from now. Note the timeline here, the last decent upland populations were in the mid to late 70's in many states, the precipitous gamebird decline began right then.
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I agree with most of what you said. Small farms could no longer compete without increasing their outputs, which in turn opened the door for the large farming business. The momentum of big equipment was just a matter of time. Today’s smart technology of digitizing planting & harvesting equipment is the next necessity to remain competitive. Hopefully, closely monitoring low crop production areas with this technology will aid in the recovery of needed wildlife habitat areas. We need to focus on Killing ethanol programs.
 
There is a guy that bought 80 plus acres next to where I live that he uses for a tax right off because it floods evey year.That field has about 15-20 acres that floods and goes onto my mothers yard and what used to be her garden and refuses to fix the tile because he would not be able to right off the crop loss on his taxes.Some of the big farmers like this guy does not get my sympathy at all.
 
Bad day

I just spent all day working on the damm goverment paper work required to have a lousy 111.4 acres of CRP--- it would just be easier to lease it to our farmer and if I had to make that decision today it might have just gone away. Trying to manage all of it and the problems it creates from 300 miles away is getting to be not fun. Then every once and awhile a tread comes along and people start bashing the idea of gettin' paid for conservation work and I sit back and say " is it really worth it all" well today I am not so sure.

All this and although I let people hunt at no charge sometimes I don't even get a thank-you. So next time ya go and look at the web site that shows all the payments farmers recieve, look a little deeper into the figures and see how much is for conservation and how much is for crops and livestock etc. I guess I feel put out when those of us who at sometimes lose way more money than you think just so there is 100 or so acres for the birds and the deer and everything else, ( NO I WILL NOT CHARGE TO HUNT to try and recoup those dollars) remember its not only those great moments when your dog flushes that ROOSTER but a lot of time,money and yes a good dose of headaches likely went into providing that moment for you.:confused:
 
Iappreciate all the things farmers like you do SDJim. It's just a few that makes it look bad for the ones that are trying to do good and help the wildlife and the hunters.
 
SDJIM said:
I just spent all day working on the damm goverment paper work required to have a lousy 111.4 acres of CRP--- it would just be easier to lease it to our farmer and if I had to make that decision today it might have just gone away.:confused:
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Selflessness SDJIM. That's what your doing and you're doing it for the benefit of wildlife and your fellow man.

Like many others, I sacrificed the past two weekends for the benefit and hope of giving habitat and wildlife boost.

I often tell myself "enough is enough". My wife often tells me "ENOUGH!"(lol) But like you, something; I'm not exactly sure what, makes MANY folks continue on in participating in selfless donations of time, $, and talents. It truly is a unique American virtue.

I suppose that "virtue" is nothing more than hope. A hope in a better future for wildlife. A hope that our next generation of Americans will have ample chances to experience and live out what we have experienced and lived out.

Thanks for doing your part SDJIM. It's people like you whom I and others put our hope in. That my friend keeps us moving forward.;)

(And I too, like yourself and others have lost $$$$ due the cause of wildlife/habitat)
 
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This will be the first year for as long as I can remember that I have not invested a considerable amount of money for my wildlife. Oh, I have spent money on my habitat, but with the extreme drought there has not been that much I can do to help. Each year I use weather events to critique my habitat, but usually that weather event is a blizzard when I will look my habitat over and think what I could have done differently to have made it better for the wildlife. This year I am looking at ways I can improve the habitat during a drought year and I have plans for that. I actually have had plans on the drawing board for two years but health issues put them on the back burner. Now that I am retired(to the ranch) the plans are back and preliminary work has begun and if my body will take it I will be starting on the main work next month. For the next five years or so, I hope to plant 3,000 to 6,000 shrubs and trees per year. All will be planted with weed barrier and watered with sub drip irrigation. My Spring 2012 planting will involve about a mile and a half of double row shrubs/trees and a few savannas of hard and soft mast trees. To make that work I have about two and a half miles of water line to install.

My three hundred acres of CRP expires in September 2012 and I will try to re-enroll with improvements. I have interseeded forbs and legumes over the years, but still don't have the stands I would like to have and would try to improve. Plan to intermix shrub thickets throughout those acres.

Pasture improvement for the lesser prairie chicken will be high on my list. I have already installed stock tanks for rotational grazing, but lack the cross fencing. My pastures took a beating this year due to the drought. I went into the spring with half my normal stocking rate, but even that is way too much. This year's drought has robbed the deep soil moisture leaving no profile at all. The moisture profile in these steep sloped short grass pastures cannot be restored by rainfall, since the rain will run off quicker than it will soak in, the only way this moisture will be restored is with a freeze/thaw of some snow cover. I, therefore, hope for a nasty wet winter, but I suspect it could take many years for my pastures to recover fully. I cannot remember a year in which there has not been a green up of the pasture, but this year the pasture has never greened up once.

I hope the next five years will see great improvements to the Ponderosa for all the critters that like me call it home.(quail, pheasant, lesser prairie chicken, turkey, whitetail deer, mule deer and some occasional elk).
 
M.R. BYRD, Sounds like you have a great plan and it is a wonderful thing you are doing. Hope mother nature gives you a hand and provides you with some moisture. If I lived closer I would sure offer to help you. Good luck with your efforts.
 
Maynard, if I might speak with blinders on for a minute, I am hearing bits and pieces of your overall plan without full knowledge of your goals. However, something you said about Randy Rodgers sticks in my head and seems to substantiate my concern. Your goals seem significantly related to mostly lower successional species and you live in the short grass prairie. However, a significant part of your plan involves tree and shrub plantings. Now, 20 years ago, biologists often recommended tree and shrub plantings in the western half of the state to improve wildlife habitat. However, in more recent years, those recommendations have been significantly tempered as new research has unveiled how deliterious trees, and any vertical structure, can be to prairie chickens; and how cedars and other "den" type trees can be a problem for any ground-nesting bird in grassland settings. Now back to Randy. I think another way to interpret what you said that Randy quoted: "You can't have everything", when asking about a wetland to attract waterfowl. The second interpretation is that some of the additional "plans" you've discussed may actually work against the goals of your other wildlife management schemes. Trees in a chicken, quail, pheasant, or turkey nesting area will increase the number of mesopredators like coon, skunk, and possum and thus decrease nesting success. Wetlands in conjunction with the same nesting area will also attract predators that will lead to the same end. Again, I am talking from a black box of knowledge of your Ponderosa, but my biologic ear is hearing contradictions with my visualization of your place. I may well be totally wrong in my mental picture of the Ponderosa. However, if your entire acreage is in one parcel and is not centered on a riparian corridor, I would have a hard time imagining how the various habitat practices won't facilitate contradictory results. Hep me I'm blind.
 
M. R. Byrd said:
I hope the next five years will see great improvements to the Ponderosa for all the critters that like me call it home.(quail, pheasant, lesser prairie chicken, turkey, whitetail deer, mule deer and some occasional elk).
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Maynard,

We will recover from this drought. A drought is one way mother nature resets the eco system enabling for a balanced recovery for wildlife and habitat. We al hate to see this drought, but I will remain hopeful that something positive can become of this devastating drought we are experiencing.

I'm very observant every day I'm out on the range. I make a point too take the time and observe changes, as you never know when it maybe your last day. Here is what I see in Oklahoma. I'm seeing reduced number of coyotes, field mice, wood rats, all types of snakes and feral hogs. Deer & elk counts showed good numbers with exception of the doe/ fawn ratio which are down (20-30%). Avian predators were at an all-time high the last 5 years, now I drive for hours each day to see one maybe two. Quail have seemed too make a successful early hatch, however I do not believe there will be any successful late hatches. This winter, I believe that Raccoons, skunks and armadillos will be reduced in numbers due to the lack of viable food sources.

This year’s wildfire season has been severe. It has been the very devastating in many areas throughout TX and OK that have not seen fires for decades. Cedar, blackjacks and even some mesquite on the parries have been cleansed. When the rain returns the grasslands will once again be vibrant and lush.

Only time will tell if the drought will have positive outcomes, I do agree with you that it will take a few years to recover.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Maynard, if I might speak with blinders on for a minute, I am hearing bits and pieces of your overall plan without full knowledge of your goals. However, something you said about Randy Rodgers sticks in my head and seems to substantiate my concern. Your goals seem significantly related to mostly lower successional species and you live in the short grass prairie. However, a significant part of your plan involves tree and shrub plantings. Now, 20 years ago, biologists often recommended tree and shrub plantings in the western half of the state to improve wildlife habitat. However, in more recent years, those recommendations have been significantly tempered as new research has unveiled how deliterious trees, and any vertical structure, can be to prairie chickens; and how cedars and other "den" type trees can be a problem for any ground-nesting bird in grassland settings. Now back to Randy. I think another way to interpret what you said that Randy quoted: "You can't have everything", when asking about a wetland to attract waterfowl. The second interpretation is that some of the additional "plans" you've discussed may actually work against the goals of your other wildlife management schemes. Trees in a chicken, quail, pheasant, or turkey nesting area will increase the number of mesopredators like coon, skunk, and possum and thus decrease nesting success. Wetlands in conjunction with the same nesting area will also attract predators that will lead to the same end. Again, I am talking from a black box of knowledge of your Ponderosa, but my biologic ear is hearing contradictions with my visualization of your place. I may well be totally wrong in my mental picture of the Ponderosa. However, if your entire acreage is in one parcel and is not centered on a riparian corridor, I would have a hard time imagining how the various habitat practices won't facilitate contradictory results. Hep me I'm blind.
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I wish I could entice you with a job offer down here in Oklahoma. We sure could use your talents and savy enthusiasm.
 
Okie, much to ask of a KState grad:) If the winds in the north, I can sneeze over the line. To bring this full circle, it doesn't matter where I work, it only matters when I can influence management on acres that benefit the species that we want to benefit. Doing so on a landscape scale is the long-term goal of all wildlife managers. Thus my hope to get ALL landowners to evaluate the production of their ag acres and put acres that can't make a profit under tillage into farm programs that will benefit game species in a cover type that will provide the landowner positive income. I am honored that you think this way, truely!
 
Okie, good observations, by the way. I think I'm seeing an upturn in coyote numbers. Coons, it's hard to tell. Raptors are quite numerous, but the migratory ones may or may not stay around based on their success rate hunting, so the "population" is transitory. Dillers, wish Oklahoma was a better obstacle:) We are getting way too many dillers. My seasonal reduced the populaltion by over 40 on the area this summer. I take sebaticals at night in the yard to try to keep them from completely tilling the yard.

What I am seeing, is a lot of species in areas that they normally don't live and at times that they normally aren't active. I think that they are having to search for food. I am seeing significant roadkills of a number of species that may support what I am seeing with game/animal movements.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Thus my hope to get ALL landowners to evaluate the production of their ag acres and put acres that can't make a profit under tillage into farm programs that will benefit game species in a cover type that will provide the landowner positive income.
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That is an excellent point and the only realistic means of improving habitat. Asking producers to take land out of production that is profitable is a non-starter.
 
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