Why those fence lines must go.
- Thread starter moellermd
- Start date
UGUIDE
Active member
Mike, you finally got me. I will say that you hit the nail right on the head as far as the economics of pheasants go.
What you refer to is same math I have to calculate to get landowners in UGUIDE camps to keep acres in pheasant cover vs. putting it to crops.
And I would also argue that the farmer is not necessarily concerned with feeding the world as much as he is about feeding his family.
not just 1 extra row
once the fence is out the extra greedy producers move down into the ditches
. where is the line between a producers rite to make money and our rite to clean water etc. you can't just say i'll hunt waterfowl because all the extra run off is silting in those areas also. maybe they should simply be fined for pollution like any other big business? :cheers:
once the fence is out the extra greedy producers move down into the ditches
. where is the line between a producers rite to make money and our rite to clean water etc. you can't just say i'll hunt waterfowl because all the extra run off is silting in those areas also. maybe they should simply be fined for pollution like any other big business? :cheers:
moellermd
Super Moderator
Greedy because they remove a fence????
moellermd
Super Moderator
It is unfortunate that you have that attitude, because that is not how we are going to convince producers to change production habits. We need to find ways that make sense to producers. Calling them greedy for taking out a old unused fence lines is not going to help our cause.
I'd like to hear what you think in face of 7.00 corn, just exactly what you believe, will convince "producers" to change their habits? Short of paying an equal amount to set aside production which isn't in the political cards, or a worldwide corn market collapse, it isn't going to happen. Pheasant populations as we have had are a fast fading memory, all the 50.00 donations and Pheasantfests in the world aren't going to do squat, eventually the tide will turn and there will be a collapse of the commodity market, and corresponding sell off of all things ag. We will invent programs to save the "producers", weeds will grow, and if we have a residual population of pheasants, we will have numbers again. Why beat around the bush, this is a reality we have replayed before. it's a sorry time be born a birddog.
moellermd
Super Moderator
Fence lines were being pulled long before $7.00 corn, by the way new crop is closer to $5.00. You and I both know prices will not be that long forever. We need to think long term and thinking farmers are being unreasonable and greedy for pulling out unused fence lines is not helping the cause it only alienates farmers to hunters.
SDJIM
New member
The article I read in the Michell Daily Republic projected corn to be at $7 at the start of the fall 2012 USA harvest due to production short falls due to drough from Mexico to South America.
I don't think fence rows are the issue to focus on, just an obvious symptom of the overall practices. What I am asking, is what are your suggestions that are reasonable to producers, that we can support while we're being cordial and understanding. You have been quick to tell us what doesn't work, and suggest there are measures these producers would except, what are those? For the life of me, I don't see it, some of these guys barely even have a fescue lawn around the house, fescue mowed ditches and waterways, the rest in years with beans looks like a billard table. I don't see any accomodation. You are uniquely positioned to speak for both sides. Show us the way.
onpoint
Active member
That's a two way street, farmers will only alienate hunters and conservationists. In which they will air their dislike of their actions at the voting booth. Isn't it easier to just do the right thing by choice, then to be forced to by LAW?
moellermd
Super Moderator
Could very welll be. I suspect some old crop might get close to $7 yet but if 94 million plus acers of corn get planted this year that is a lot of corn
Obviously high commodity prices make CRP and CCRP a tuff sell I will grant you that. Most producers I know are open to the idea of smaller targeted programs. Like bufferstrips and small areas of HEL or low ground that they might have. Most producers I do not think are aware of whay type of payment they can get for ground like that.
A very good point. I suspect big changes are in the works for the farm program and crop insurance.
captaincoot
Banned
Why is it wrong for a farmer to cleanup fencelines? We actually have some extra money now to improve our properties. It's no fun to break mirror off tractors or have areas of weeds where you can't get close to the fence. If you want to get mad at someone go at the supervisers who take the trees of the drainage ditches. I haven't heard one farmer say they wanted them gone.
One thing is for sure, there is a lot of passion on both sides of this debate. Its only human nature for there to be a bit of disdain for those that don't see our side of the story and hold the same passion or commitment towards the goals we are seeking. Therein lies the problem, our goals as hunters are different then the landowners goals and there doesn't seem to be a lot of common ground between the two, or if there is commong ground its overshadowed by the light at the end of each proverbial tunnel. We want more birds and farmers want more income. And wildlife and the environment is caught in the middle. I dont see a solution or at least a long term solution. A market correction or collapse would probably help in the short term, 5-10 years, but sooner or later things will rebound and we'll be right back to where we started from. And with fuel prices going through the roof, will there come a time when even if a farmer rips out his fencerows, its not going to be profitable enough to continue? What then? Abandoned farmsteads, overgrown fields, early sucession habitat, hmmn, sounds somewhat familiar.:cheers:
mnmthunting
Banned
Corn ethanol has changed everything. So has the growth of world population. More land will be put into crops.
Don't worry about those fencelines, they NEVER were good pheasant habitat, just good places for hunters to walk and flush birds. Narrow corridors are poor nesting and good for pheasant killing predators.
Don't worry about those fencelines, they NEVER were good pheasant habitat, just good places for hunters to walk and flush birds. Narrow corridors are poor nesting and good for pheasant killing predators.
1pheas4
Moderator
Moe, can you elaborate on this? What changes do you suspect are coming (possibly)? Thanks.