Poached Deer

we would be more overrun withthe damn things than we are now if we didn't open it up to out of state hunters
 
RoosterTim said:
This kind of thing makes me sick to my stomach.


http://www.kansas.com/2011/06/22/1902959/texas-man-led-illegal-hunts-in.html

Gives all sportsmen a bad name.
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The results of pay hunting. When you put a high value on anything..including game birds and animals. Where big profits are to be made..you will find poachers and those that will do anything to put themselves in the spot light among their friends and fellow hunters.

Make it illegal to sell hunts or trophy's and this kind of thing will all but disappear.
 
west,
most often gcb is spot on with his comments,I tend to agree with him about the deer herd in Kansas.I live in extrem SEK,and I travel 22 mile one way to work,and I can asure you,ther are more deer know,then there was 20 yrs ago.
More big racks,little rack,big does,little does,just alot more deer. If the deer population is thinning out where you live,just come on down,we have more then enough to go around.
 
I live north of Kansas City, in Missouri, Conservation Department sent me a questionaire to see if I thought we had to many deer, not enough deer, or just the right amount. It's all your life is worth to drive down our road after dark. I will have at least 4-5 cross the road on a 7 mile trip into Liberty, Mo. Interstate 35 is a slaughter zone around Liberty Hospital. Every doe has two fawns, and some have three! This is a scene repeated throughout the country in general. When I used to hunt deer, it was well known that it is the encroachment of whitetails into mule deer country that lowers the mule deer population. Whitetails are to competetive, and are harder to hunt. Muleys not only loose in direct competition to whitetails, but are harvested in higher percentages when occupying the same range with whitetails because they prefer more open country, and frankly are not as cagey. Like antelope believe distance is safety, and stop for a last look. The same encroaching brush and woodlands that reduce quail and pheasant habitat also favor the Whitetail over the Muley. Let the Whitetails fend for themselves, they are perfectly capable. I told the state we had way to dang many!
 
If you look at the numbers from the early 90's til now, state wide there are less numbers. I lived in sek KS from the mid 60's until 2002 when I moved out west. Now when I go back to sek ks I see less and less deer every year than I did back in the 80's and 90's. Mostly due to loss of habitat. We can argue that there are more or less than there were years ago and accomplish nothing. But to make a statement that "I hate deer" and to "shoot them all" is foolish. Surely we don't have to debate that one.
 
Not foolish just simply my opinion and the opinion of every dirt farmer in this county and everyone knows opinions are like ass%%* everyone has 1 and a concervationalist huh no never claimed to be 1 of them tree huggers but what i do know is there are more than enough deer to go around if you choose to do it legaly great and if you dont hunt deer like myself and a few others so be but thats our choice and just for conservations ssake to make you happy the deer herd around here is so great and does so much dammage to the wild bird population habitat and food source wise that yea i kinda hate the damn things every food plot for the birds that we have planted about half gets destroyed by them and nesting habitat well i would like to walk through the grass without spooking at least 3 up everytime i go into it
 
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The problem is pay to hunt operations and opening up the state to out of state hunters who were willing to pay big money to have the land to themselves has cut off most hunting opportunities.

How many Joe 6 pack locals do you know that have hung it up due to loss of access?

A lot!!! If I wasnt bat sh*t crazy about hunting I would have hung it up a long time ago. In fact I stopped deer hunting from the time I was 18 to 26 due to loss of access (Im 31 now)

The time and expense I put into this hobby is simply too much for a lot of people. We are losing a lot of participants who may not be as crazy as us that frequent the boards here. To lose a lot of casual participants is not a good thing. Some may believe otherwise, but in doing so you are losing a lot of future participants in the sport and future conservationists who respect wildlife.


To the poster that stated that I35 was a slaughter field in NE ks, it certainly is....same can be said for the Turnpike between Emporia/Topeka, Topeka/KC and El Dorado/Oklahoma.

Ive went to a couple football games in Lawrence and holy crap, on my way home from a Nebraska Game I was definitely putting my life in Gods hands. I had never seen so many fresh deer kills.

However I dont blame this on anything other than loss of hunting access. I find it very amusing that the same bozos that charge $10k to trophy hunt on their property are probably the ones causing problems and will have problems in their immediate area with the deer population. Before they allowed out of state horn hunters in, how many children, once a year hunters etc went out and were content shooting a spike buck or a doe for meat and their experience for the year helping to keep the population in check.

Access is the problem. Not the # of tags. You can print all the tags you want, until farmers and outfitters are forced to stop profiting off of Gods/the states animals then the problem will only get worse.

That being said, if this guy would have been poaching does for the heck of it and not profiting off of the scam then he would have got a slap on the wrist. The fact he was flipping the bird at the laws/regulations and profiting off of the illegal taking of trophy game sealed the deal for him. IMHO he should have got more time. In the area I hunt we've had problems with poachers (Im pretty sure) taking the mule deer out of the spot we hunted. It was locals and out of staters both. Needless to say we dont focus most of our time in the area now.

Im kind of in the middle on the situation. If you shoot a trophy and dont take it using fair chase methods then you should not display it at all and should have your balls cut off. But to shoot some does and help thin out the population, Im open to people upping the scope of their methods as long as its done safely, however people just have no common sense anymore.

I still think increasing access would help to solve a lot of problems, especially around more populated areas.
 
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Hey guys....why all the pickering?

I have enjoyed your posts.

As a non-res, I feel very fortunate to be able to travel to KS and enjoy your hospitality and great hunting!

3 years ago I hit a large buck just east of Downs, KS....
Did bout $6K damage to the front end of my Suburban.

However the truck was still drivable and we have a damn fine hunt!

I would like to say....that I feel your pain:)

HB68
 
westksbowhunter said:
I wonder how things would be if we would have never opened up deer hunting to out of state hunters here?
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WKB I know how you feel. This attitude is wrong however. All states have some one in it with these thoughts.... Fact is, it is not non res hunters it is non true hunter, poor ethics that are the problem.
If you stiffen the penalty's for crime, it will stop mostly......
They are too light in punishment across the board in every state.
But to say no out of stater's is ,well simply un American. This is all our country, not one state boarder to another's. People from every state could say the same thing. ND, SD NE and so on. I hear that sentiment here all the time about our fishing that people from your state and every state in the union come to enjoy. I have seen plates from every state but Hawaii here. Fact is it is good for economy, jobs and the Nations blood line. All states need to welcome respectful non residents and should do so kindly. And simply toss the book hard on violators. Locals or non res, we need to remember that all our states have more locals breaking laws then non res.;)
 
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FCSpringer said:
WKB I know how you feel. This attitude is wrong however. All states have some one in it with these thoughts.... Fact is, it is not non res hunters it is non true hunter, poor ethics that are the problem.
If you stiffen the penalty's for crime, it will stop mostly......
They are too light in punishment across the board in every state.
But to say no out of stater's is ,well simply un American. This is all our country, not one state boarder to another's. People from every state could say the same thing. ND, SD NE and so on. I hear that sentiment here all the time about our fishing that people from your state and every state in the union come to enjoy. I have seen plates from every state but Hawaii here. Fact is it is good for economy, jobs and the Nations blood line. All states need to welcome respectful non residents and should do so kindly. And simply toss the book hard on violators. Locals or non res, we need to remember that all our states have more locals breaking laws the non res.;)
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Totally agree. Judges and lawmakers have always gone easy on wildlife crimes. Once the penalties fit the crime it will slow down. It is not an out-of state hunter problem. It is an ethics problem. I know a guy who was road hunting deer and shot a decoy. He was arrested, also had an unregistered .40 cal under his seat, he did no jail time. Payed a fine and had his license suspended for 5 years. But you know a guy that does this don't need no stinking license. He is not someone that i associate with. I pheasant hunted with him a couple times prior to this incident. He wanted to break all kinds of trespass laws. Made me uncomfortable so i never went with him again. I have heard through others, of other deer he has shot illegally before and after this incident. He is a piece of crap. Point is this is all done within 50 miles of his house, you don't have to travel.
 
I should re-call that statement. Not that we should not have opened it up but we should have had better management in place. There was no game plan just open it up and sell as many tags as possible. To this day we have no guidelines for drawing a tag for NR's. If you want a tag we have one. Iowa really does a great job of managing their resource. We do not. I have said on the KS bowhunting forum that we should have a draw system of every 3 years. Right now the control of our game laws are in the hands of the outfitters and legislature.
 
carptom1 said:
He was arrested, also had an unregistered .40 cal under his seat, he did no jail time.
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What exactly is an unregistered .40 cal? What is a registered .40 cal? With what group/organization/governmental body does one register with?
 
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cheesy said:
What exactly is an unregistered .40 cal? What is a registered .40 cal? With what group/organization/governmental body does one register with?
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I've never "registered" any of my guns that I know of:confused:

Funny, I just heard about hang-gun permits yesterday. I mean, I was sure they did something of the sort in the left-leaning states like NY or CA, but I found out yesterday they do it in NE:eek:

In reference to the thread title, I agree w/ all that have stated the key is more strict and possibly more conservative management of our resources. I'd support a lottery for deer and a reduction in upland limits. 3 pheasants in one day is a GREAT day. Why on earth a guy can still shoot 8 quail in one day in KS is beyond me. 6 from 2 or 3 coveys maybe, but 8? One guy, one dog, one covey and 8 birds; come winter that covey is doomed....stop highjacking the thread Windy (me:rolleyes:)!

:cheers:TO STIFFER PENALTIES FOR VIOLATORS
 
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I've listened for years of stories of illegal hunting and fishing, told by a DNR enforcement warden. Amazing the time and effort that has to go into catching and arresting violators.

Haven't voiced it, but everydamnedtime I've thought that the convictions ought to be more severe and consistent by the judiciary. One of the problems is no place to put the violators, and some do poaching as a cultural way-of-life, not an economic food issue.

With the various stricken economies of the states, not likely to see more emphasis put on this. And as the current staff of enforcement officers retires, I'd bet there will be fewer new hires.

Hope I'm very wrong.
 
unregistered was not the correct term. The gun was actually purchased by another and transferred illegally. It was just part of the story not the focus.
 
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carptom1 said:
Totally agree. Judges and lawmakers have always gone easy on wildlife crimes. Once the penalties fit the crime it will slow down. It is not an out-of state hunter problem. It is an ethics problem. I know a guy who was road hunting deer and shot a decoy. He was arrested, also had an unregistered .40 cal under his seat, he did no jail time. Payed a fine and had his license suspended for 5 years. But you know a guy that does this don't need no stinking license. He is not someone that i associate with. I pheasant hunted with him a couple times prior to this incident. He wanted to break all kinds of trespass laws. Made me uncomfortable so i never went with him again. I have heard through others, of other deer he has shot illegally before and after this incident. He is a piece of crap. Point is this is all done within 50 miles of his house, you don't have to travel.
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LOL, the same thing in an undisclosed CO in sth MN happened. The guy who shot the decoy out his window was a local sheriff retired.:D I think he got a slap as well. Jerk.
 
Part of it is our fault. We have not demanded higher penalties for wildlife violations, we haven't turned in known or observed violations/violators, we allow acquaintances to believe that we accept what they are doing because we don't jump them when they're bragging about their debachery. Most significantly, we have villified certain species like whitetails and predators to the point our non-hunting neighbors hold little respect for those speces, making it easier for the court system to sweep these violations under the rug.

If WE want to have a quality, vigorous wildlife resource, WE need to show up at wildlife commission meetings and project a strong showing in support of beneficial regulations and legislation and against detrimental ones. We need to require that guides and outfitters be regulated and licensed with enforceable inspections and record keeping.

As for the 8 bird bag limit on quail, where there are quail, the coveys continually intermingle and reform, so the difference between shooting some number out of 1 covey or out of 5 coveys is immaterial. They will genetically try to reform into the optimal size covey to protect themselves from predators and weather. It is sad so many folks put so much importance on how fast they can limit out, if they stop there. Those of us who have evolved past that point (probably before we got to 20 years old) know that the time in the field is more important than the heft of the bag or the speed at which it is filled. Sure, it is pleasing to have high success from time-to-time, but I'd hate to have it very often. It would cut into the HUNT part of why I'm out there.
 
You are right to some degree but take the situation in Decatur county where they let the guys from Wisconsin off easy. The landowner did everything right but the court system failed to penalize. And this scenerio has happened over and over. Its a failure from both ends.
 
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