Changing attitude about pay to hunt ?

[Highvoltage]

I think that SD could follow some of the direction that Dayton did in MN with buffers. I'm not sure of the exact solution, but the idea of either forcing or enticing the operator to leave some grass buffers around waterways and fencelines would go a long ways. Tiling has done away with so much winter cover in the eastern part of SD - that cover that was very important for winter survival in SD.
Another point of conversation would be shorter term limits for CRP contract - or possibly adjustable rates. We currently have some pieces in CRP that are paying $100/acre less than current rates and they have a couple more years in contract. I'm sure this is done for a cost-saving measure on the FSA's account - since the rental rates have done nothing but increase.

SDRAT

We have good farm land in Southern MN. We have enrolled some of the acreages that are along the drainage ditch,and a hill side that will erode on heavy rains in USDA programs. The payments we receive if I average the three programs we are getting about the same as rent. The program we just put 8 acres in last year is paying out $289 an acre. The down side is the paperwork!

 

[Goosemaster]

If I owned a farm, I wouldn't plow everything under. I would farm it, so that I had some good bird habitat.I would not build some fancy lodge, and all that bushwa stuff.

 

[haymaker]

Thanks for the reply Haymaker. Certainly no obvious answers.
I did find this report online for anyone wanting to look further into the subject.

http://habitat.sd.gov/resources/habitatsummitinfo/docs/PHWG Final Report.pdf

Haymaker I am curious about one comment you made.
" Personally I would rather see my land comprised of crops, pasture and parcels beneficial to wildlife. I can only do that if I can generate enough revenue to justify it."

If you had to guess how much less money by percentage your land would generate if run as you described above versus if you went for full commercial production using the current farming practices found in the area ?

I do not know about percentages. I get $90 for CRP. I could rent it for $125 or more, but with hunting revenue and in a drought I might get to cut some for hay it is OK. I plant full season cover crops that I hunt and then graze. The biggest benefit of cover crops is what it does for the soil. I don't know what value to place on increased infiltration, organic matter and biology. If I wanted to retire I could rent it out and do nothing but that sounds awful. This is a poor answer to a good question, but it is the best I can do.

 

[mgorvi]

97 gmc pickup carptom

Ha. I'm out here north of Webster in my 97 Silverado. The 5.7 is bulletproof. Just put in new spider fuel injection system and got rid of the old poppet valve system. Geez what a difference. 206k and purrs like a kitten. Glad you know quality when you see it, Carptom. Shot a number of birds off snowshoes this week. Drifts are 3ft deep. First time off shoes. Kinda fun.

 

[sbode]

I only wish there were farmers who did pay to hunt in NE

I am willing to pay to hunt and have done so for the last 15 years. Unfortunately I normally have to drive to South Dakota to find a pay to hunt farm.
Nebraska farmers would rather farm ditch to ditch than leave any habitat. ( at least in the eastern part of the state)

I do know one farmer in eastern Nebraska who does let me hunt for a fee. Earlier this week I limited out in 20 minutes on his property. These were all wild birds. Normally it takes longer to limit out but the birds were sitting real tight and I had opportunity for good shots.

 

[Tina_V1Ranch]

I'm right there with you all on the sentiment regarding lower bird count and the growing hunting population. I think I'd rather pay to hunt on private property, knowing its just for me, rather than having to deal with the mess that it seems other people are leaving being.

I've never been to South Dakota to hunt (however its definitely on my list), but a majority of my family has. Usually, I hunt in my surrounding areas here in San Diego as my days off are super few and far between and it's the only way I can make the most of them

 

[Goosemaster]

Unfortunately my conclusion/dilemma that I pose to you all is unless the state and federal governments were to throw it's resources and mite to establish a scenario where both state and federal lands are re-prioritized FOLLOWING legitimate incentives and opportunities for the private land owner to benefit I do not see how the quality and quantity of public hunting will not continue to diminish with greater pressures put on smaller acreages.

The likely result like it or not will be more of us willing to pay for better quality hunts as our individual resources allow. My hats off to those who chose to take a do or die determination and hunt only what public has to offer but lets be honest in that at some point newcomers will avoid interest in it due to lack of opportunity. The saddest aspect to all of this as someone pointed out is the diminished chances for our young people from all backgrounds to get out and understand what time in the outdoors has to offer.

So my question to someone here like Haymaker and others who are at ground zero of this debate is if we could create a clone at the helm with Teddy Roosevelt spirit, FDR's "lets get to work" aggressiveness and a D. Trump "run it like a business" mentality is there any economic scenario that could be a win-win for both the public and private sectors ?

That's a really good point. Young people, can't afford to pay hunt, so they may not bird hunt, because of that.

 

[nastymcnarf]

Very slippery slope here. Once the concept of 'pay to play' becomes an accepted norm, hunters will be lost. Controlling the access to wildlife will become a natural incentive for those seeking to make profit from the resource. It will not be in their best interest to allow average 'Joe's' access to quality hunting unless these select few are being paid for the privilege. At that point it will only increase in cost until the ordinary man cannot afford the "luxury". Now...take that thought a bit further. At that point how long before our sport become an easy target for the "anti's" to limit/destroy the sport of hunting.

Without numbers supporting the sport at the poles, hunting will be an easy target. Make no mistake. Look at Europe. People (now priced out of the support) will certainly not show up to vote their support for a sport they cannot afford to participate in. I wouldn't.

This is already most prevalent in waterfowling. For years I had very good relations with many landowners as I began to chased spring snows in the late 90's. At that time I hunted a lot in northern MO. A friend and I had landowner contacts down ther. Nearly all those fields are gone now. The farmers weren't to blame. All of them told me how bad they felt about kicking me off, but they were simply offered too much $$ for those spring fields. Of course...the guides now controlling the fields were were quick to offer me 'dates' to come hunt for $200-300 per day.

One of these "guides" actually began to actively harass me when I tried to find new fields in the area. Again...wasn't in his best financial interest to have guys around killing geese independently. Paying customers might begin to notice.

Careful what you wish for...

 

[small munsterlander owner]

Very slippery slope here. Once the concept of 'pay to play' becomes an accepted norm, hunters will be lost. Controlling the access to wildlife will become a natural incentive for those seeking to make profit from the resource. It will not be in their best interest to allow average 'Joe's' access to quality hunting unless these select few are being paid for the privilege. At that point it will only increase in cost until the ordinary man cannot afford the "luxury". Now...take that thought a bit further. At that point how long before our sport become an easy target for the "anti's" to limit/destroy the sport of hunting.

Without numbers supporting the sport at the poles, hunting will be an easy target. Make no mistake. Look at Europe. People (now priced out of the support) will certainly not show up to vote their support for a sport they cannot afford to participate in. I wouldn't.

This is already most prevalent in waterfowling. For years I had very good relations with many landowners as I began to chased spring snows in the late 90's. At that time I hunted a lot in northern MO. A friend and I had landowner contacts down ther. Nearly all those fields are gone now. The farmers weren't to blame. All of them told me how bad they felt about kicking me off, but they were simply offered too much $$ for those spring fields. Of course...the guides now controlling the fields were were quick to offer me 'dates' to come hunt for $200-300 per day.

One of these "guides" actually began to actively harass me when I tried to find new fields in the area. Again...wasn't in his best financial interest to have guys around killing geese independently. Paying customers might begin to notice.

Careful what you wish for...

I agree 100% but I do blame the farmers for just chase n $$$ u figure they can let a guy hunt 1 day for free if he been coming for years $$$ is 1 thing being douchey is another... $$$ turn people fast...

 

[Goosemaster]

Very slippery slope here. Once the concept of 'pay to play' becomes an accepted norm, hunters will be lost. Controlling the access to wildlife will become a natural incentive for those seeking to make profit from the resource. It will not be in their best interest to allow average 'Joe's' access to quality hunting unless these select few are being paid for the privilege. At that point it will only increase in cost until the ordinary man cannot afford the "luxury". Now...take that thought a bit further. At that point how long before our sport become an easy target for the "anti's" to limit/destroy the sport of hunting.

Without numbers supporting the sport at the poles, hunting will be an easy target. Make no mistake. Look at Europe. People (now priced out of the support) will certainly not show up to vote their support for a sport they cannot afford to participate in. I wouldn't.

This is already most prevalent in waterfowling. For years I had very good relations with many landowners as I began to chased spring snows in the late 90's. At that time I hunted a lot in northern MO. A friend and I had landowner contacts down ther. Nearly all those fields are gone now. The farmers weren't to blame. All of them told me how bad they felt about kicking me off, but they were simply offered too much $$ for those spring fields. Of course...the guides now controlling the fields were were quick to offer me 'dates' to come hunt for $200-300 per day.

One of these "guides" actually began to actively harass me when I tried to find new fields in the area. Again...wasn't in his best financial interest to have guys around killing geese independently. Paying customers might begin to notice.

Careful what you wish for...

I'm really down on outfitters, because of the low brow things they do.I hunt a farm in eastern mt. For turkey, that borders a ranch controlled by an outfitter, and this bonehead parks a truck, in a plsce where the turkeys success the free hunting place.He blocks the main route to the field he doesn't control.This is what happens when the greedy, money people take over a place.Pay hunting, is changing hunting forever.I guess farmers are not to blame here, but they own the land. When they see the money that can be made, they cave in.Pay hunting, is becoming the norm these days, and there are guys on this sight, who spend big money, to bird hunt.10 years from now, good luck finding private ground, to hunt for free.

 

[haymaker]

I'm really down on outfitters, because of the low brow things they do.I hunt a farm in eastern mt. For turkey, that borders a ranch controlled by an outfitter, and this bonehead parks a truck, in a plsce where the turkeys success the free hunting place.He blocks the main route to the field he doesn't control.This is what happens when the greedy, money people take over a place.Pay hunting, is changing hunting forever.I guess farmers are not to blame here, but they own the land. When they see the money that can be made, they cave in.Pay hunting, is becoming the norm these days, and there are guys on this sight, who spend big money, to bird hunt.10 years from now, good luck finding private ground, to hunt for free.

Good luck finding a bowling alley that will let you bowl free, or a movie theater or a golf course. I guess they are greedy too. It is just business gentlemen.

 

[small munsterlander owner]

Good luck finding a bowling alley that will let you bowl free, or a movie theater or a golf course. I guess they are greedy too. It is just business gentlemen.

The popcorn soda & treat prices at the movie theaters are pretty high greedy??? I'd say yes..

Sucks 1s business causes another to loose hunting spots he hunted for years... But that's the hunting business...

 

[Goosemaster]

The popcorn soda & treat prices at the movie theaters are pretty high greedy??? I'd say yes..

Sucks 1s business causes another to loose hunting spots he hunted for years... But that's the hunting business...

I never thought of bird hunting as a business, but that guy is right. It is turning into a business these days, and it's the poor people who get shafted.

 

[david0311]

David0311

I never thought of bird hunting as a business, but that guy is right. It is turning into a business these days, and it's the poor people who get shafted.

Figured--and not surprised --that you and SMO--would see eye to eye on issues. Took a little longer than I thought though--

May be a partner for Sask. hunt--

 

[small munsterlander owner]

Figured--and not surprised --that you and SMO--would see eye to eye on issues. Took a little longer than I thought though--

May be a partner for Sask. hunt--

No not Saskatchewan hunt I won't waste $$$ on a goose hunt to Canada??? Maybe a Montana turkey hunt???

Not surprised a guy who guides for high end pay to play ranches jumps in with a comment just wish it was pro guideing vs just sarcastic non sense... Thought u did not like goosemasters antics???

I was referring to nastymcnarfs situation & comments on lands locked up by guides & haymakers its just business gentlemen comment... Not joining the non stop anti guide dog box kennel non resident hunting construction worker club goosemaster runs at the moment... Don't really see eye to eye just like public land hunting...

I'd rather hunt with goosemaster on public lands then pay to play on a high end ranch near Pierre SD sorry to say...

 

[small munsterlander owner]

I never thought of bird hunting as a business, but that guy is right. It is turning into a business these days, and it's the poor people who get shafted.

Haymaker knows his stuff he offers pay to play hunts but he is good stuff I'd give him my $$$ if I went that route I'm not anti haymaker he's doing good things for pheasant & don't seem greedy to me...

Bird hunting has been a business in SD a long time TX & FL also 2,000$ turkeys in Florida lol due to outfitters/guides

 

[haymaker]

I never thought of bird hunting as a business, but that guy is right. It is turning into a business these days, and it's the poor people who get shafted.

Proceeds from pheasant hunting helped send my kids to college. Should I have let people hunt free instead?

 

[goldenboy]

Figured--and not surprised --that you and SMO--would see eye to eye on issues. Took a little longer than I thought though--

May be a partner for Sask. hunt--

That is the beauty of this sight. If certain guys gravitate towards each other with like minded skills and ideas everyone wins. I, like David0311 have had success helping "new" people get introduced to the sport as well. Sometimes new people who have money are very good for the sport. Their dollars and influence can go a long way to help everyone in the sport.

 

[david0311]

David0311

That is the beauty of this sight. If certain guys gravitate towards each other with like minded skills and ideas everyone wins. I, like David0311 have had success helping "new" people get introduced to the sport as well. Sometimes new people who have money are very good for the sport. Their dollars and influence can go a long way to help everyone in the sport.

I'll give you a good example of Golden Boys example of introducing new people with money into the sport--

One person I have guided at the-- HIGH END LODGE I GUIDE AT--(SMO' quote)
Has enjoyed it so much he just purchase over 800 acres of farm land a couple miles south--and is turning all in to pheasant-wildlife land-at his own expense--
Think that is good for the resource??? I do.:cheers:

 

[small munsterlander owner]

I'll give you a good example of Golden Boys example of introducing new people with money into the sport--

One person I have guided at the-- HIGH END LODGE I GUIDE AT--(SMO' quote)
Has enjoyed it so much he just purchase over 800 acres of farm land a couple miles south--and is turning all in to pheasant-wildlife land-at his own expense--
Think that is good for the resource??? I do.:cheers:

Those are your quotes on your profile page the high end lodge quote...

I guess I dont see how the private 800 acre rich guys pheasant play area effects the public land hunter besides it keep him off public but sounds like he payed to play b4 he bought land...

I'm sure you will be invited to hunt that private land so I see how it benifits you in long run...