Pointer vrs Flusher Article in Shooting Sportsman

PheasantWhisperer said:
I would take the Pepsi challenge any day. Better get your wallet out though. $50/bird. That sound about right? And yes I do have a bias on pointing dogs. But quail is my main chase because of where I live. When dogs go on point it gives everyone time to get into position to shoot. They dont bust till you bust em. And on runners they just relocate and pin. My older dog is great on pheasants once she learned to relocate on runners. And with her nose, she dont walk past too many. And she is a bull dozer. Like I said, get your wallet out. And afterwards we can go to the bar and play pool. Keep your wallet out...cause its $50/ball too.
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I thought we were talking pheasants? Everybody has a good dog on the internet. You would challenge me that you could put up as many birds without a dog as I could put up with a good flusher? C'mon brother I don't want to get personal but have you ever hunted wild pheasants? Good flushers give tells when they are on a bird, I am rarely surprised.
 
carptom1 said:
I thought we were talking pheasants? Everybody has a good dog on the internet. You would challenge me that you could put up as many birds without a dog as I could put up with a good flusher? C'mon brother I don't want to get personal but have you ever hunted wild pheasants? Good flushers give tells when they are on a bird, I am rarely surprised.
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Dog for dog there stud. As in mine will find more birds and I will put more in the bag. Pheasants, quail, doesn't really matter. And I actually have pictures on this site to prove that fact. And no I would never walk anywhere in a field without a dog. Its the same argument that me and a buddy have quite often. I love the argument and we chirp back and forth, especially when he gets back from south dakota where pheasants are everywhere. But he knows better than to get his wallet out when we hunt pheasants in Kansas and Missouri.
 
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PheasantWhisperer said:
Dog for dog there stud. As in mine will find more birds and I will put more in the bag. Pheasants, quail, doesn't really matter. And I actually have pictures on this site to prove that fact. And no I would never walk anywhere in a field without a dog. Its the same argument that me and a buddy have quite often. I love the argument and we chirp back and forth, especially when he gets back from south dakota where pheasants are everywhere. But he knows better than to get his wallet out when we hunt pheasants in Kansas and Missouri.
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Carptom
Me thinking we have a big talker Betty Crocker! Sounds a lot like the guy from Kansas with the pack of Brits that used to frequent here till he was banned!
 
Gatzby said:
Carptom
Me thinking we have a big talker Betty Crocker! Sounds a lot like the guy from Kansas with the pack of Brits that used to frequent here till he was banned!
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I like how when someone has a lab or flusher bias its ok. But when someone pipes up on the other end in favor of the pointers people get offended and talk about banning people. Ball rolls both ways gentlemen. Sense of humors and thicker skin are good qualities for hunters to have too.
 
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Gatzby said:
Carptom
Me thinking we have a big talker Betty Crocker! Sounds a lot like the guy from Kansas with the pack of Brits that used to frequent here till he was banned!
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I think you touched a nerve there gatzby. He must have big tires and a small pointer.
 
Most of these breeds have been around long before any of us where born ... probably most breeds were well established before your grandpa was born. So long before the internet reined supreme ... these debates were held by hunters, dog breeders, game keepers and land barons.

Buy a dog from a good reputable breeder that stands behinds his dogs (health wise) and breed them to perform in the field. Train them the best you can ...

I could careless if Carptom or any other flusher owners thinks their dog is great pheasant hunting machine. Some are ... some not so much.

I hunt behind Brittanys and have done so since I was about 19 years old. They hunt all upland game that they have been asked to pursue and do fine in hunting waterfowl too. Each of my dogs have had their strengths and weaknesses (probably trainer (me) induced)...

I live in the land of the lab and do not find myself defending my breed ... I will tell stories if they want to listen and listen to theirs if it is a two-way street.

Enjoy your dog...
 
Gatzby said:
Carptom
Me thinking we have a big talker Betty Crocker! Sounds a lot like the guy from Kansas with the pack of Brits that used to frequent here till he was banned!
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Yea I forgot about that guy. He told me he was going to come up and kick my ass one day.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
I like how when someone has a lab or flusher bias its ok. But when someone pipes up on the other end in favor of the pointers people get offended and talk about banning people. Ball rolls both ways gentlemen. Sense of humors and thicker skin are good qualities for hunters to have too.
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So you make mention of our dogs getting no more birds than a hunter with no dog and I started this? That's funny. Listen it seems to me every time someone mentions good dog work they always discount flushers. We are classified as meat hunters( not that kind of meat sicko) that just stumble around bumping into birds. I have a wonderful upland pheasant lab, I have hunted with several on here that would attest to that. Funny thing is compared to FCS Spingers dogs, or Gatzbys Labs he is an amateur. I am sure your dogs are great and it has been fun jerking around on here but I need to get back to work so I can pay for these hunts
 
Many, many years ago, as teenagers, we ran into a friend with a couple labs. It was the first time I hunted with dogs. Awesome! They trailed rabbits and pointed quail.

Growing up, there were a couple britts down the street. This is why I always have britts.

What is the goal for the flusher? I would assume you want the dog to quarter in front of you until it reaches the end of shotgun range and then start working back to you.
 
Flushers in theory are supposed to quarter and not range far (20yrs max?) also adjust their range based on thickness of cover. I believe most to all flushers hunted do at least this. The next level which is difficult to do is create a dog that is steady to flush and shot then released on command to retrieve. I mentioned before go to YouTube and look up "rough shooting" and click on any video put up by Nick Ridley. He and his companions have some incredible cockers. The steady to flush and shot is as challenging for trainers of flushers as is for trainers of pointers trying to steady their dog to flush and shot and released on command.
 
Has anyone watched the "National Bird Dog Circuit" much? It is a show that can be found on YouTube and evolves both pointer and flusher competitions. It can be entertaining to watch but the one thing of potential concern for me is it seems to promote 'unsteadiness' in a dog. The event is timed and they have to shoot x number of birds and the dog has to retrieve each bird to hand. So because it is a timed event dogs are trained to break at the flush to minimize time. Ironically it is a show that promotes what most hunters don't want in a dog yet have a hard time achieving that level of control.
I know a lot of hunters are ok with a dog that breaks on flush and will just not shoot the low birds (I have done this as well...and still do as the cockers are not highly trained). So breaking at flush or shot is not a sin. Myself I strive to have a dog that is steady until released more from a esthetic view vrs necessity.
 
mlf3882 said:
Has anyone watched the "National Bird Dog Circuit" much? It is a show that can be found on YouTube and evolves both pointer and flusher competitions. It can be entertaining to watch but the one thing of potential concern for me is it seems to promote 'unsteadiness' in a dog. The event is timed and they have to shoot x number of birds and the dog has to retrieve each bird to hand. So because it is a timed event dogs are trained to break at the flush to minimize time. Ironically it is a show that promotes what most hunters don't want in a dog yet have a hard time achieving that level of control.
I know a lot of hunters are ok with a dog that breaks on flush and will just not shoot the low birds (I have done this as well...and still do as the cockers are not highly trained). So breaking at flush or shot is not a sin. Myself I strive to have a dog that is steady until released more from a esthetic view vrs necessity.
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I've seen that show and most of the flushers have awful patterns (although they work for that "game"). The pointers do alright until the flush.

But the thing about that "game" that bothers me the most is the near running with a loaded gun. Seriously! It's terrible. Dangerous and gives a bad impression of hunters.
 
carptom1 said:
Yea I forgot about that guy. He told me he was going to come up and kick my ass one day.
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I can not remember his name. He lives out in the western half of the state, and had pheasants and ground to run his dogs on a lot. He "invited" me to come out and hunt with him but I never did. I think the guy was just lonely and needed someone to befriend him..... that would have been a tall order :)

Carp - its not that I don't appreciate the dog work of flushers, its just not the type that lights my fire. If you know dogs you can tell when they are picking up scent, that is always exciting.

BTW - Did any of you see the Field and Steam article that rated a particular dog the #1 Upland Birddog :D Looks something like this. (sorry couldn't resist)....

Montana_85.jpg


That was Indy's first Hun in Montana a few years ago, he was still pup then.

Here is what he is like on Sharptail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hSGO5L1uTk
 
SetterNut said:
I can not remember his name. He lives out in the western half of the state, and had pheasants and ground to run his dogs on a lot. He "invited" me to come out and hunt with him but I never did. I think the guy was just lonely and needed someone to befriend him..... that would have been a tall order
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It is killing me that I can't think of that guys name! As soon as one of you say it I m going to kick myself for not remembering it.
 
mlf3882 said:
Has anyone watched the "National Bird Dog Circuit" much? It is a show that can be found on YouTube and evolves both pointer and flusher competitions. It can be entertaining to watch but the one thing of potential concern for me is it seems to promote 'unsteadiness' in a dog. The event is timed and they have to shoot x number of birds and the dog has to retrieve each bird to hand. So because it is a timed event dogs are trained to break at the flush to minimize time. Ironically it is a show that promotes what most hunters don't want in a dog yet have a hard time achieving that level of control.
I know a lot of hunters are ok with a dog that breaks on flush and will just not shoot the low birds (I have done this as well...and still do as the cockers are not highly trained). So breaking at flush or shot is not a sin. Myself I strive to have a dog that is steady until released more from a esthetic view vrs necessity.
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A couple of years ago I ran a qualifyer for the National Bird Dog Open. The dogs for the most part could not walk to the line without dragging there handler, needed to be physically restrained, and barked incessantly. Not my dogs as I will not tolerate that behavior even so we flushed all 4 birds, shot, and delivered to hand in 2 minutes 38 seconds! That was good enough for third place. I have never done it again as running through a field with a loaded gun while the judges, camera men, and gallery tag along was foolishly dangerous. The crazyiest rule was if a bird flushed in the direction of a person you could yell safety and if the judges agreed the bird counted. Becouse of the risk of a "no" bird you had to shoot even if the bird was close to a person, or a foot off the ground as you never knew how the judge would rule. I cannot for the life of me figure out how they get insurance for these events.... Maybe they don't?
Don't get me wrong there were some hard charging dogs that were bird crazy, and some of these guys could shoot lights out! Not my cup of tea but I could see the excitement.

A steady dog will go absolutly no where in this competion as there times will be way way way to slow
 
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Jakeismydog2 said:
It is killing me that I can't think of that guys name! As soon as one of you say it I m going to kick myself for not remembering it.
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It's killing me to.
Was it "Shadow"???
 
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