Pointer vrs Flusher Article in Shooting Sportsman

My thing is. A flusher is in front of you at 15-20-30 yards correct? Or the guys I hunt with, thats what there labs and spaniels do. And they work hard dont get me wrong but arent they just going to flush up the birds that you yourself are gonna walk over anyway? I want a dog that finds birds that Im not gonna kick up myself. As sparse as birds are in some areas having the range dog go point birds in a draw I dont plan on walking through lets me cover alot more area. Especially when hunting public. I dont use gps collars. I do use the vibration button on the ecollar to range the dog back in when we start getting into pheasants. And as far as running birds go. Mine will brake point and relocate. Chasing the running birds can be a bad thing too. When do I want a flusher? On a super hot day where scenting conditions are crappy. Then I want something that runs back and forth in front of where Im walking. Just to throw a comparison out there when my buddy put the gps collar on his lab and one on my setter. The setter did 42 miles. The lab did 19. In 7 hours of hunting. The boykin did 22 miles. Both dogs have their place. My preference is pointers. If you have both, then you have the best of both worlds. I have a setter now and two vizslas. My next move will probably be an English Springer Spaniel with the setter combo. See how that works.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
My thing is. A flusher is in front of you at 15-20-30 yards correct? Or the guys I hunt with, thats what there labs and spaniels do. And they work hard dont get me wrong but arent they just going to flush up the birds that you yourself are gonna walk over anyway? I want a dog that finds birds that Im not gonna kick up myself. As sparse as birds are in some areas having the range dog go point birds in a draw I dont plan on walking through lets me cover alot more area. Especially when hunting public. I dont use gps collars. I do use the vibration button on the ecollar to range the dog back in when we start getting into pheasants. And as far as running birds go. Mine will brake point and relocate. Chasing the running birds can be a bad thing too. When do I want a flusher? On a super hot day where scenting conditions are crappy. Then I want something that runs back and forth in front of where Im walking. Just to throw a comparison out there when my buddy put the gps collar on his lab and one on my setter. The setter did 42 miles. The lab did 19. In 7 hours of hunting. The boykin did 22 miles. Both dogs have their place. My preference is pointers. If you have both, then you have the best of both worlds. I have a setter now and two vizslas. My next move will probably be an English Springer Spaniel with the setter combo. See how that works.
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No pheasants run that's why people use blockers. 25 miles seems about right. You really should get with somebody that has a little high powered lab I'm sure they will do 40. As far as you being able to cover more ground. Personally I think it's a wash. Walking 2 or 300 yards out of your way to a pointer who is more than likely holding a hen or a bird that's relocated. I can't do that. Flushers put up a high ratio of roosters to hens. I think you want a flusher when you are hunting a small group of people any cover (pheasant) except for crops.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
No pheasants run that's why people use blockers. 25 miles seems about right. You really should get with somebody that has a little high powered lab I'm sure they will do 40. As far as you being able to cover more ground. Personally I think it's a wash. Walking 2 or 300 yards out of your way to a pointer who is more than likely holding a hen or a bird that's relocated. I can't do that. Flushers put up a high ratio of roosters to hens. I think you want a flusher when you are hunting a small group of people any cover (pheasant) except for crops.
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So flushers know the difference in a hen and a rooster? That's impressive! Didnt know that. Guess my dogs have more work to do.
 
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BrownDogsCan2 said:
Flushers put up a high ratio of roosters to hens. I think you want a flusher when you are hunting a small group of people any cover (pheasant) except for crops.
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I can't wait to hear the responses to this statement. Where do you get your information? This is almost like sometime back when someone on this site said his dog you tell the difference between hens and roosters. I would gladly invite you to hunt behind my Brittany in a small group. You just might come away with a different opinion.
 
Seriously how many times do you walk up to a pointed rooster not on the perfect day on average. And how many birds did you see , not counting the ones your dog blew through. I'm not picking a fight here I'm stating my opinion same as you.
 
GPS = no lost gundog!

If you have ever lost a dog for period of time, you will not disavow a GPS. In today's hunting with either vast fields of overgrown CRP, or the converse, small hunting habitats bordered by dog dangerous roadways, or locations, or a system for which I am familiar with, low density of game birds, require a really big running dog to handle the size and scope of the ground, reminiscing the by gone horseback days with scouts to locate the pointing dog. The GPS is a scout, find the dog AND safely return it home, giving everyone piece of mind. By the way, I personally have a different philosophy about GPS rather a hawk scream-audio tone collar, or a correcting collar, but a subject for another time.
 
Stating your opinion is one thing and that's what its all about. But a dog that can tell the difference in a hen and rooster is a pretty ridiculous statement. And myself and my daughter killed about half of our roosters off points this year. And walking to a dog on point and flushing a bird is never a wash. That's why I go. Because of the dog.
 
Nobody said they could tell the diffence. jeas. pheasants are runners especially roosters. if a dog can put them up or pin them or point them before they are half across the field or on the neighbors property you will see more. done finished back to work.
 
Dog is not always going to be downwind from the bird. You cannot fault a dog if the wind is wrong at that particular cast and the bird hears/sees the dog and flushes.

If the pheasant doesn't flush, the dog will probably cut its trail the next cast.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
Seriously how many times do you walk up to a pointed rooster not on the perfect day on average. And how many birds did you see , not counting the ones your dog blew through. I'm not picking a fight here I'm stating my opinion same as you.
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Yup, opinions are like assholes. We each have one. :D But on the serious side, I've hunted over dogs for over 40 years using all kinds of flushers and pointers but mainly Springers and Labs for flushers and Brittanys for pointers. If you have good dogs I can't say that either put up anymore birds than the other nor has there been more roosters put up by either a flusher or pointer. I realize that due to your experience you are biased toward flushers. Maybe you just haven't hunted behind a real good pointing pheasant dog. That's why I said to hunt a day behind my Brittany and see what you think. There are some flusher guys on this site (like FCSpringer and Tbear) that I've hunted with that can attest to the fact my pointy dog is pretty darn good.
 
Dakotazeb said:
Yup, opinions are like assholes. We each have one. :D But on the serious side, I've hunted over dogs for over 40 years using all kinds of flushers and pointers but mainly Springers and Labs for flushers and Brittanys for pointers. If you have good dogs I can't say that either put up anymore birds than the other nor has there been more roosters put up by either a flusher or pointer. I realize that due to your experience you are biased toward flushers. Maybe you just haven't hunted behind a real good pointing pheasant dog. That's why I said to hunt a day behind my Brittany and see what you think. There are some flusher guys on this site (like FCSpringer and Tbear) that I've hunted with that can attest to the fact my pointy dog is pretty darn good.
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It been a long time :D but I've hunted over a few good dogs even a short hair that I wouldn't be imbarassed to run along side elle. :)
But I'll stick by my statement that a good flusher will put up a higher ratio of roosters to hens than a good pointer. Hence the word wash.
 
Peter M said:
Different strokes for different folks, we all herd that before.

My question for those who rely on the telemetry of the GPS. Is it not artificial hunting to depend on the GPS to direct you to your lost dog on point ?
Example reactive shooting once you hoof it a 1/4 mile to the point than flush as oppose to hunting ( I get the wide open cover )?
Last question what happens when the battery dies on the Garmin ?

No offence to anyone but it sure is to me much more interesting when your dog is in gun range..
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Garmin Astro is great. Points in the cattails and higher cover ... dog can be 20 - 30 yards away ... some times 10 yards. Ruffed grouse hunting the Astro is even better. My Britts rarely venture more than 50 yards away unless cover is sparse ... then maybe push towards 70 yards. Terrain where I hunt is not always flat ... hills, creeks, etc...

I used to rotate dogs because it was easier on me... with the Astro I can and do occasionally run then together. With three dogs in the pack this fall ... more brace runs anticipated.

To be honest maybe 10% of the points I shoot over are "spotted" on the Astro first. 90% are visual.

Where the Astro comes in handy is when birds are running or moving in a direction you did not necessarily anticipate and the dogs move on them or it is very, very windy and the dogs have a tougher time staying with you or a young dog gets on a deer or other animal and decides to chase it... I can tell you these types of events are fairly rare, but a lot of time is saved because the GPS let's you reconnect quickly or if a young dog gets lost ... mine have ALWAYS returned to the truck ... I know they are there before they do.
 
oldandnew said:
The GPS is a scout, find the dog AND safely return it home, giving everyone piece of mind.
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I agree. I've hunted with friends who had GPS on their dogs. In a way, it seemed "un-natural" to me but to be honest, after watching those dogs disappear into the thick stuff I can understand why some hunters use them. Spending the day looking of a dog with worry is no fun.


BrownDogsCan2 said:
But I'll stick by my statement that a good flusher will put up a higher ratio of roosters to hens than a good pointer. Hence the word wash.
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I see your point. If you're someone who runs down running roosters (alongside your dog) I suppose you technically could put more roosters up. Though to do so takes some serious energy and strength.:eek: Especially through cattails. With that said, hens will run too. There's many times I've following the dog at a sprinting pace only to have him flush a hen/s. But, yes, most of those running birds I've caught up with were roosters;).
 
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PheasantWhisperer said:
My thing is. A flusher is in front of you at 15-20-30 yards correct? Or the guys I hunt with, thats what there labs and spaniels do. And they work hard dont get me wrong but arent they just going to flush up the birds that you yourself are gonna walk over anyway? I want a dog that finds birds that Im not gonna kick up myself. As sparse as birds are in some areas having the range dog go point birds in a draw I dont plan on walking through lets me cover alot more area. Especially when hunting public. I dont use gps collars. I do use the vibration button on the ecollar to range the dog back in when we start getting into pheasants. And as far as running birds go. Mine will brake point and relocate. Chasing the running birds can be a bad thing too. When do I want a flusher? On a super hot day where scenting conditions are crappy. Then I want something that runs back and forth in front of where Im walking. Just to throw a comparison out there when my buddy put the gps collar on his lab and one on my setter. The setter did 42 miles. The lab did 19. In 7 hours of hunting. The boykin did 22 miles. Both dogs have their place. My preference is pointers. If you have both, then you have the best of both worlds. I have a setter now and two vizslas. My next move will probably be an English Springer Spaniel with the setter combo. See how that works.
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I agree that pointers range further but a good flushing dog finds birds too. We all have stories of birds we nearly stepped on, birds that we know would've sat and let us walk by if we were 2 feet further away. So yes, a flusher in gun range will find birds you wouldn't have. I also believe a well trained flusher is better on running birds.

I'll tell you a story. Last fall I was grouse hunting with my spaniel and my brother. She flushed a bird, I shot it, and she made a nice retrieve. I then reloaded, gave her water, and sent her out on a cast. She immediately got bird (I thought she was smelling the bird she just flushed), but she ended up flushing another not 30 feet from me. It flew straight up to avoid her jaws, hit some branches, then flew towards me. Boom, another dead bird.... Point is I would've walked right past one if not both birds without her.

To be transparent, I have an ESS and an EP. My EP finds more birds in total, but I tend to kill more birds over my spaniel. Granted, my pointer is young and inexperienced, and I believe she'll figure out wild birds soon.
 
When we pheasant hunters enter a field, often the birds begin to "push". In doing so, they leave sent. The dogs pick up on their sent then begin to lead us to the birds. From there birds may choose to sit--if that's the case the dog flushes a sitting bird--or the birds may keep moving forward. In that case you can choose to pull the dog off the sent or keep moving in on the bird to close the gap between you and the bird until the dog flushes the bird. So, sitting birds and moving birds are both game-on with a flushing dog.

Many times a bird will let you walk right by them. This is where the dog is necessary to locate and flush the bird.
 
1pheas4 said:
When we pheasant hunters enter a field, often the birds begin to "push". In doing so, they leave sent. The dogs pick up on their sent then begin to lead us to the birds. From there birds may choose to sit--if that's the case the dog flushes a sitting bird--or the birds may keep moving forward. In that case you can choose to pull the dog off the sent or keep moving in on the bird to close the gap between you and the bird until the dog flushes the bird. So, sitting birds and moving birds are both game-on with a flushing dog.

Many times a bird will let you walk right by them. This is where the dog is necessary to locate and flush the bird.
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I totally agree with this!
 
I feel fortunate to have both types of dogs, I most enjoy how a dog works vrs how many birds it produces ie. my day is more enjoyed when the dog behaves and performs good and only shoot a few birds vrs dog that is yelled at all day and I limit out.
When I lived in KS my first pheasant dog was a very high energy lab and like one person posted in this thread, if you stayed up with the dog you got shots at birds, was easy then cause I was young and in shape.
I suspect one reason the birds ran so much was cause of how hard she pushed them but very few escaped that tactic. Reason for this suspicion was that in late season I had to put tighter chokes in (naturally). So a few yrs went by and I purchased my first english cocker. She was small and the first time I hunted her was late JAN on a very warm KS day (translation was the birds would be flushing wild). She went into the CRP and I could not hear her and began to worry that she was ranging far out until a rooster flushed 10-15yrd from me, and I heard/saw her movement right next to it. Thought well that was lucky...but it continued to happen. I had to put in my skeet and imp cyl chokes cause the birds were flushing so close. Unlike the lab who rattled the grasses the spaniel slunk between them and surprised the birds. This continued to be the way she hunted, but being small wore out sooner when in super heavy cover ie. having to jump over thick grass vrs plowing thru like the lab.
So then I started thinking that the skitish birds were best flushed by little dogs ie. spaniels...however my two current spaniels (sibilings) are night and day. The male is a little bull and pushes birds, the female is nimble and can sneak up on them...so it's back to personality vrs generalization of the dog I guess.
I think one thing holds true with pheasants based on my experience (IMHO), and it probably is a plus for flushers- when birds are skitish and running, the hunter who can keep up to the dog will get the most shots, having very limited exp with pointers I suppose the hunter who can keep up with a pointer can have the same results?
 
mlf3882 said:
the hunter who can keep up with a pointer can have the same results?
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I suppose that would be true yes. But in that case you would be shooting wild flushed birds over a pointer. I know hunters that do this over their pointers, but if you want a rock-solid pointing-only-pointer, shooting flushed birds is not acceptable.

Eitherway, different breeds, different people, different styles. That's all. They all work. They all get birds. Wild or pen raised. Otherwise there wouldn't be a demand for each breed.
 
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