Lab Replacement

your comment about beagles in this context is meaningless

I do agree with your last line.


Labs are the number one dog breed for pets because the exhibit the traits people want in pets and biting isn't one of them.

the raw numbers you are looking at are meaningless and I guess you don't understand what I am saying, so I wish you a great day and I have said my piece.

Arguing on the internet is pointless sorry I let myself get sucked into this.
 
your comment about beagles in this context is meaningless
No its not.
Beagles are the 5th most popular dog in USA and they generally dont bite.
I blew your statistical analysis argument / logic out of space.


I do agree with your last line.
OK



Labs are the number one dog breed for pets because the exhibit the traits people want in pets and biting isn't one of them.
And thats all well and good, until a kid gets a face replacement surgery for being mauled by a Lab, such as what recently happened due to misplaced trust in a so called 'family' breed.


the raw numbers you are looking at are meaningless and I guess you don't understand what I am saying, so I wish you a great day and I have said my piece.
No theyre not, only you saying so with nothing to back what you type.



Arguing on the internet is pointless sorry I let myself get sucked into this.
Not pointless, alot was learned by readers Im sure..
 
I guess I have to break it down for you... here's an exaggerated example to help you understand.


So if you have a dog population with a million labs and 50,000 of them bite someone and you have 20 shorthairs in that same population being studied and 10 of them bite someone, statistically that would mean shorthairs are 10 times more likely to bite than labs.

Without a census to know precisely for instance, the actual ratios of bite per hundred animals, your data you've presented is meaningless
 
I guess I have to break it down for you... here's an exaggerated example to help you understand.
You dont have to break down anything, the facts and figures dont lie.
Pits and Labs are among the most popular breeds, and they bite the most people year in year out. Beagles are too, but they dont bite people.


So if you have a dog population with a million labs and 50,000 of them bite someone and you have 20 shorthairs in that same population being studied and 10 of them bite someone, statistically that would mean shorthairs are 10 times more likely to bite than labs.
Tell that to the kid that lost a face to a Lab.

Without a census to know precisely for instance, the actual ratios of bite per hundred animals, your data you've presented is meaningless
Disagree.
Someone remarked that Labs are better 'family' dogs, less sharp it was said.
That is patently NOT true.

One could add up all the German breeds together in the USA and Germany (population 75 million) (GWP/DD, GSP/DK, Weim PP, Munsters) and still fall way short of bites than Labs. The German breeds are safer as a hole.
YOU are confusing your own experience with a poorly bred trial dog and using it to bias your OWN thesis, based on SA which is faulty.

Sharpness on fur has nothing to do with high bite threshold, as often seen in cocker spaniels and pits for example, and now Labs, it would appear.
Same with protectiveness.
If a dog is 'wired right' he knows what to protect and when to protect, and he isnt a menace to kids or bites first without thinking. Many good dogs are wired just like this. I owned them and own them and wont tolerate nonsense.
I see it from setters, cockers, labs and occasional gsps, but ive never seen it in GWPs/DDs where breeding is very controlled.
 
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images
 
david0311

3. Ive never had a serious cut or scrape on my wirehaired dog.
I do vest most times, but aside from leg scratched, I dont recall one in 10 years. theAnd I guided hunts most of the last 10 years with the same dog, and re is barb wire. You have to see a good wire coat to appreciate one.


4. Partly true BUT....
One can strip his wire coated dog and / or cut the feathering (Feet, head, ears) and the coat should lay fine and not be a bur magnet.
Some PAM spray on the dog that is well cut and one will have little issues.

Jonah

You seem to be full of ------ opinions and ideas for some one whole just showed up--

How about a little back round of your vast experience---so we can lend some creditability to your post-opinions-

Where did you do your guiding for ten years without a cut-abrasion-etc.---a tennis court or golf course?
 
Jonah

You seem to be full of ------ opinions and ideas for some one whole just showed up--

How about a little back round of your vast experience---so we can lend some creditability to your post-opinions-

Where did you do your guiding for ten years without a cut-abrasion-etc.---a tennis court or golf course?

Ive guided Central and SW ohio, including county youth hunts the past 10 years. Ive hunted for over 35, since I was 12.
Ive owned Setters, GSPs, DDs and titled my dogs in multiple venues, NSTRA, HRC, VDD
I hunt public state land and private land all over my state and other states.

Ive yet to have a barb wire cut that required medical attention on my wiredog. I have had serious pad cuts and use EMT gel and promoted it on other forums long before others did, that I can recall.

Im new to this forum but not new to posting or other hunt forums.
Some get their feelwings hurt by the truth, I cant apologize for being honest.
Sometimes the truth isnt polite. Can we get back to the discussion now that youve seen my resume and sniffed the firepost?



Back to dogs.
There was a Cesar episode in which one of the few times he ever got tagged hard, and bitten good, unprovoked, was by a Lab.
And he knows what he is doing and worked thousands of dogs to rehab them. I also know the trainer that trained Cesar, he also trained many k9 Dept dogs and spent Summers in Germany competing in SchH. I dont always agree with Cesar, but I dont doubt his accomplishments & ability to read dogs.

image_176864_6.jpg


C726EDD62DD06E7BA795121F438.jpg


Here is the episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ihXq_WwiWM
 
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Back to the OP, here's my .02. You said you upland hunt 90% of the time, so just about any gun dog could work. My question is what type of habitat are you hunting in? I have a Lab, and for me he's great in upland, but I hunt a lot of thick cover that other breeds may not like to work or can work as well as a Lab. I do some waterfowl too, hopefully more in the future, so it makes him versatile for me. He's great around my two young boys and I couldn't ask for a better family dog. I've always personally liked Lab's, love their disposition and loyalty. I think the answer to your question really is what dog is most suited for the habitat you hunt and would be the best fit for you and your family.
 
A guy could maybe argue that a drahthaar is the best pheasant dog but they ain't magic. Labs work pretty damn good too.

My draht does have thicker skin than my french Brittany and he can take more of a punishment out in the field but he still gets cut.

Either one of them will occasionally get sidetracked by a rabbit or coon but neither one is going to stop working a pheasant to chase fur.
 
Not sure how any of the anti lab stuff answers the questions the OP asked???

OP has a lab now so I?m sure he has his own opinions about the breed and we are not going to change that so how about moving on?

r_man-- I would take FCSpringers advice and run with it. If you are interested in a wirehair go find a couple of breeders and talk to them. Find a club or an event that is close by and go watch the dogs work for yourself and make an informed decision. Internet is a great place to start but you need to get information from people that you trust. Most likely you will have that "decision" for 10+ years.

Gatzby--Great call!!!
 
It took longer than expected but didn't disappoint! I had to pop a second bag
 
Not sure how any of the anti lab stuff answers the questions the OP asked???

OP has a lab now so I?m sure he has his own opinions about the breed and we are not going to change that so how about moving on?

r_man-- I would take FCSpringers advice and run with it. If you are interested in a wirehair go find a couple of breeders and talk to them. Find a club or an event that is close by and go watch the dogs work for yourself and make an informed decision. Internet is a great place to start but you need to get information from people that you trust. Most likely you will have that "decision" for 10+ years.

Gatzby--Great call!!!

That hits it on the head. Whatever you do be thorough and make sure it is what you want. As gatzby said if i was going pointy i would look at a wirehair first
 
Sorry to disappoint you boys, but Jonah is gone and the show is over! :)

Dang Jonah the Wailer had the makings of the next "shadow". I also had high hopes for Col. Klink but he faded faster than cheap siding.

Seriously, thank you Zeb (all mods) for your efforts to keep this place constructive!

Steve
 
There is a lot of good thoughts and advice on this thread.

Jonah was weird at best. Nobody followed his crap.
I didn't delete his posts, so UPH members can see just how nuts things can get without control.
We don't want to lose you quality contributors because of a weirdo or two. :cheers:
 
He'll be back, pretty sure it's same guy that has been banned from many sites. A few more days and the nazi love would have started.
 
I'm a little disappointed that things were straightened out as I was beginning to enjoy the train-wreck that the thread diverged into, but I have been able to glean some info from many of the replies to give me some of the right questions to ask breeders. I'm still hunting my lab heavily. His nose is gone, but he still has the desire and fitness to go, so until that goes, I'm going to continue walking behind him and waiting for the suicidal rooster or visible covey of quail. I'm planning ahead 1-2 yrs before getting a pup and no I'm not making my decision solely on chat room heresay, but like I said it has been helpful. I wouldn't have thought to ask about the temperament/territoriality of lineage of a wirehair.
One more question for you pointer types (this may be sacrilege); how hard is it to get a short hair or wire hair to release on command from a point to flush the bird?
 
One more question for you pointer types (this may be sacrilege); how hard is it to get a short hair or wire hair to release on command from a point to flush the bird?

It can be done without harm, but it should only be introduced after the dog is very steady and mature like age 3. He should understand the command whoa and be reliable, whoa means stop and don't move unless released

Further it should be used only intermittently when its necessary, like if the dogs pointing on the other side of a water filled ditch or some place you cannot easily flush the bird yourself.

Most of the time you should require steadiness or you will end up with a flushing dog that's natural range is well out of gun range.

You want the dog to expect you to have him pointing and not moving.

You teach it by allowing him to only relocate with a gentle tap on the head, after he's steady and understands that, you add the word "OK" followed by the tap.

Now the tap and "OK" can be used interchangeably, they mean the same thing to your dog.

And then you can release him at will verbally, when its a good idea, and he is doing so because you told him to not because he decided to.
 
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