Lab Replacement

[small munsterlander owner]

my SM is 18 months & has had no issues with after she locks up on point me releasing her verbally to either flush the bird once we are all ready to shoot or to just relocate after i there was no bird flushed & i feel the birds not there many times when i say OK FIND EM & release her she only has to move a few steps & tight holding birds flush...

i agree you dont want to start releasing your pointing dog at to young of a age or B4 the dog understand WHOA & that there job is to POINT birds not catch them or you may end up with flushing pointer???

 

[small munsterlander owner]

hate to even remotely agree with jonah but i have been around pits bulldogge & big bully breeds mastiffs ETC. & never was bite n or thought i mite be... i on the other hand have got the hell bit out of my arm by a family lab that i helped pick out the litter he was 100 lbs he crushed my nerves in my arm & left me scarred i could not close my fist for almost a month & a half after that bite... also have been cornered & had to jump many fences due to old male labs with gray beards that for some reason did not like any people outside of there direct family??? same with german shepherds got to watch it around them & there family if your a stranger in my experience collies also???

i love dogs but dont trust them all just by breed any longer lol

i am curious on someday maybe get n a small bodied say under 50-60 pound hunting black lab & or a pointing lab small framed like that to work with my SM id keep the lab if not a pointer close to me or on heel then if my SM points & or i shot a bird i will send in the lab to help on the recovery... i understand people dont pump pointing labs due to there being pointing breeds that get the job done better in theory but even if the lab slows way down & damn near stop id take that over a pure flusher that i cant control or has no pointing in his genes...

is there any particular bloodlines or strains of small bodied hunting labs that i should be looking into buying or researching??? im from MN so any breeders up this way to say MN/WI/IA/SD/ND that i should be looking at??? its a few years down the line im talking so any info will be much appreciated but not like i need a lab at the moment...

 

[MTtailchaser]

* is there any particular bloodlines or strains of small bodied hunting labs that i should be looking into buying or researching??? im from MN so any breeders up this way to say MN/WI/IA/SD/ND that i should be looking at??? its a few years down the line im talking so any info will be much appreciated but not like i need a lab at the moment...

Maybe look into an english lab. They're a little smaller and more compact than the american lab.

 

[mnmthunting]

SMO, Lovell WY would be a fun RD trip to.
Bring back a pup.:thumbsup:

 

[dukhnter7]

I went through the same thing a couple years ago. I was always a lab guy but I started hunting upland way more than waterfowl and was looking hard at the pointing breeds. I just couldn't drag myself from the labs. I got a pointing lab and could not be happier. I joined a local pointing lab group and have taken this dog and myself farther than I ever dreamed. I'm going to tell you the same thing every one else will. I have a great dog..........for me. Do your homework and check out some local clubs. See the dogs in action. In the end, with good training, you will end up with a great dog.......for you. :cheers:

 

[mstand]

You have a Small Munster, you dont NEED a flusher/retriever.
Putting a flusher/retriever with a pointing breed that does not like to retrieve is one thing. But to put them with a pointing breed that loves its retrieving job equally as well as its pointing job is a BIG mistake IMO.
You will more than likely see our SM become a flusher because of the competition. I suppose if you took the time to train both breeds to do their jobs to perfection, you wont have a serious issue. However,very few have their flushers trained the way they should be trained.
But, knowing the SM/Km like I do, I know that they arent going to be happy and you will have a problem eventually.

 

[carptom1]

You have a Small Munster, you dont NEED a flusher/retriever.
Putting a flusher/retriever with a pointing breed that does not like to retrieve is one thing. But to put them with a pointing breed that loves its retrieving job equally as well as its pointing job is a BIG mistake IMO.
You will more than likely see our SM become a flusher because of the competition. I suppose if you took the time to train both breeds to do their jobs to perfection, you wont have a serious issue. However,very few have their flushers trained the way they should be trained.
But, knowing the SM/Km like I do, I know that they arent going to be happy and you will have a problem eventually.

That I would agree with. If you have a good pointer that will retrieve, why would you want both? It is hardly fair to either, and more than likely you will end up with two mediocre dogs at best instead of a good one.

 

[quail hound]

However,very few have their flushers trained the way they should be trained.

How should a flusher be trained? As long as they work in gun range, find and flush game, retrieve shot game and can be called off another dogs retrieve I think they're trained pretty well for the average upland hunter. Having a flusher trained to that extent is pretty simple too.

 

[mstand]

Just what you have mentioned is way more then any flusher I have experienced. Most take their labs off the couch and into the field. They are happy with the dog bumping, not flushing, birds. This is fine, nothing wrong with it as the saying goes, to each their own. But I wouldnt hunt my pointers with that dog.It wouldnt be fair to my dogs and it just wouldnt be enjoyable.
Real flusher people I have spoken to have the dogs trained to sit on the whistle and flush on command.This is the training I am talking about.

You can take a lot of breeds out in the field and have them bump birds and then call them a flusher or a hunting dog. But to the true flusher trainers, I think this would be an insult.

 

[Gatzby]

Just what you have mentioned is way more then any flusher I have experienced. Most take their labs off the couch and into the field. They are happy with the dog bumping, not flushing, birds. This is fine, nothing wrong with it as the saying goes, to each their own. But I wouldnt hunt my pointers with that dog.It wouldnt be fair to my dogs and it just wouldnt be enjoyable.
Real flusher people I have spoken to have the dogs trained to sit on the whistle and flush on command.This is the training I am talking about.

You can take a lot of breeds out in the field and have them bump birds and then call them a flusher or a hunting dog. But to the true flusher trainers, I think this would be an insult.

How the heck do you sit your dog and than tell him to flush? If I new where the birds are already why would I not just keep my dog at heel and release him to retrieve? I think you may be a bit confused

My dogs are trained to sit to flush and retreive on command.

 

[david0311]

david0311

Just what you have mentioned is way more then any flusher I have experienced. Most take their labs off the couch and into the field. They are happy with the dog bumping, not flushing, birds. This is fine, nothing wrong with it as the saying goes, to each their own. But I wouldnt hunt my pointers with that dog.It wouldnt be fair to my dogs and it just wouldnt be enjoyable.
Real flusher people I have spoken to have the dogs trained to sit on the whistle and flush on command.This is the training I am talking about.

You can take a lot of breeds out in the field and have them bump birds and then call them a flusher or a hunting dog. But to the true flusher trainers, I think this would be an insult.

Don't know who the Real Flusher People are that you get your wisdom (or lack of) from but sounds like they know less about good flushers than you--sit on WHISTLE AND FLUSH ON COMMAND----seriously?

By the way had customers show up this year with a great pointer--or a least that was what I was told---Dog couldn't have pointed south with a powerful magnate in his a**--

You gain nothing by knocking other breeds with generalization

 

[carptom1]

Don't know who the Real Flusher People are that you get your wisdom (or lack of) from but sounds like they know less about good flushers than you--sit on WHISTLE AND FLUSH ON COMMAND----seriously?

By the way had customers show up this year with a great pointer--or a least that was what I was told---Dog couldn't have pointed south with a powerful magnate in his a**--

You gain nothing by knocking other breeds with generalization

As you all should know by now, I am the first one to battle with a pointer lover. I don't think that is what she meant. She wasn't saying that the sitting was part of the flushing process. You have to cut pointer lovers some slack. Many have not hunted behind a good non-pointing dog. As she said most of her experience is of Labs that come out once a year and ramble around busting birds. I would say that is not true of most of us on here.

 

[david0311]

david0311

As you all should know by now, I am the first one to battle with a pointer lover. I don't think that is what she meant. She wasn't saying that the sitting was part of the flushing process. You have to cut pointer lovers some slack. Many have not hunted behind a good non-pointing dog. As she said most of her experience is of Labs that come out once a year and ramble around busting birds. I would say that is not true of most of us on here.

Yea ---Tom I know just couldn't resist--

But what I said about that pointer was true :cheers:

dc

 

[mstand]

As you all should know by now, I am the first one to battle with a pointer lover. I don't think that is what she meant. She wasn't saying that the sitting was part of the flushing process. You have to cut pointer lovers some slack. Many have not hunted behind a good non-pointing dog. As she said most of her experience is of Labs that come out once a year and ramble around busting birds. I would say that is not true of most of us on here.

Although I didnt do it well,that is what I was saying. And no I wasnt breed bashing. As a matter of fact, I was giving the flusher trainers credit.

Should have spaced out the sit/flush thing better or drew some of you all a picture...BUT, I see some of you are looking for an excuse to get your internet jollies off. Read into it what ya want. Arent going to ruffle my feathers at all. Just kinda makes you look small.:thumbsup:

But, I still dont need to add flusher/retriever to my pack to do the job that my V-dogs can do in their sleep. And I would never recommend anyone with a v-dog to do it either.

 

[Gatzby]

Although I didnt do it well,that is what I was saying. And no I wasnt breed bashing. As a matter of fact, I was giving the flusher trainers credit.

Should have spaced out the sit/flush thing better or drew some of you all a picture....BUT, I see some of you are looking for an excuse to get your internet jollies off. Read into it what ya want. Arent going to ruffle my feathers at all. Just kinda makes you look small.

But, I still dont need to add flusher/retriever to my pack to do the job that my V-dogs can do in their sleep. And I would never recommend anyone with a v-dog to do it either.

On another forum a guy once said. "I'm drunk and even I know that don't make sense".

Just "sayin" and getting my jollies off!

Steve Goetze

 

[david0311]

david0311

Although I didnt do it well,that is what I was saying. And no I wasnt breed bashing. As a matter of fact, I was giving the flusher trainers credit.

Should have spaced out the sit/flush thing better or drew some of you all a picture...BUT, I see some of you are looking for an excuse to get your internet jollies off. Read into it what ya want. Arent going to ruffle my feathers at all. Just kinda makes you look small.:thumbsup:

But, I still dont need to add flusher/retriever to my pack to do the job that my V-dogs can do in their sleep. And I would never recommend anyone with a v-dog to do it either.

Me thinks thou does protest to much

 

[ditchparrot19]

As you all should know by now, I am the first one to battle with a pointer lover. I don't think that is what she meant. She wasn't saying that the sitting was part of the flushing process. You have to cut pointer lovers some slack. Many have not hunted behind a good non-pointing dog. As she said most of her experience is of Labs that come out once a year and ramble around busting birds. I would say that is not true of most of us on here.

Okay, maybe that clears up part of it (emphasis on maybe), but what about the flushing dog "flushing on command?" Unless it was meant to be "retrieve on command," as Gatzby mentioned.

A good flushing dog isn't "commanded" to flush a bird any more than a good pointing dog is commanded to point one.

 

[HolyMoses]

I brought two incase someone else was hungry.

 

[FCSpringer]

Let me sum up Flush and flusher for the misinformed folks who only point. A joke by the way. First a flusher runs wind patterns different in what ever wind, as should any dog. They use the wind to scent game. When game is made, they accelerate in to a flush trying to catch the bird. Often with an acrobatic display of enthusiasm leaping in the air. Hence the flush. That's how you want it. Creeping, stopping, looking, "pointing" is a flaw, and undesirable. Then comes more advanced training. Called "Steady To Flush Wing And Shot", if you choose. This is where you pointer folks got confused. When the dog has now displayed its fantastic bird finding skill and dramatic flush. It now should sit when the bird takes flight. Watching with great vision. Hunter shoots, bird hits the ground. Then you release the dog to make the marked retrieve. Also the flusher should be gifted at trailing out running, moving, or crippled birds. land or sea. And is a great retriever, naturally. That's that. :thumbsup:

 

[Gatzby]

Let me sum up Flush and flusher for the misinformed folks who only point. A joke by the way. First a flusher runs wind patterns different in what ever wind, as should any dog. They use the wind to scent game. When game is made, they accelerate in to a flush trying to catch the bird. Often with an acrobatic display of enthusiasm leaping in the air. Hence the flush. That's how you want it. Creeping, stopping, looking, "pointing" is a flaw, and undesirable. Then comes more advanced training. Called "Steady To Flush Wing And Shot", if you choose. This is where you pointer folks got confused. When the dog has now displayed its fantastic bird finding skill and dramatic flush. It now should sit when the bird takes flight. Watching with great vision. Hunter shoots, bird hits the ground. Then you release the dog to make the marked retrieve. Also the flusher should be gifted at trailing out running, moving, or crippled birds. land or sea. And is a great retriever, naturally. That's that. :thumbsup:

Thank you. Very well said! At a spaniel test are you allowed to whistle sit the dog after the flush? And after the flush do you release the dog remotely or do you move up to the dog before releasing? The upland retreiver tests we are allowed to whistle sit and release remotely or from the dogs side