Why Don't More People Field Trial

I horseback trialed for many years, enjoyed it for the most part. I've seen trial dogs give amazing preformances, like 15 legitimate finds on an hour course. I've also seen dogs lost off the course, and out of judgement. Frankly a lot more of the later than the former. I will say that we have big running field trial pointers and setters to thank, without doubt for the general competence of the FDSB dogs as hunting dogs. Almost all FDSB pups come from some relatives who were trialed, all may not run big enough to win at horseback trials, but pretty much universally they make a useful hunting dog. Which lest we forget is the point, a superior hunting companion is the ultimate title, we trial to make hunting dogs, we don't hunt to make our trial dogs better, though it has that effect. I think NAVHDA is great, the trials to show finish of a walking hunting dog marvelous. I have always questioned the practice of imitating the pointer/setter all age dogs by every other breed, German Shorthair, Brittany, to name two, who take a household companion, and superb foot hunting dog, and stretch them out with training and or selective breeding, to produce hyper rockets which the average foot hunter and his family, thinks they should have, because they are titled, but aren't really prepared to handle, physically or mentally and is not completely happy with in the long run. The Britts and shorthairs of my youth, basically got taken along, trained themselves, had a little more penchant for fur, than I liked, but hunted fairly close and thoroughly, hunted dead better than the avg. pointer or setter, excellent dog for what we have all become, aging hunters with sagging midlines, who want low stress. You will need to search hard, and probably pay dearly to find that model today! Nothing prettier than a dog at the horizon covering ground at dead run, sticking birds, holding and handling on a string. We already had those, why make every other breed over into their image? Equally vexing is that the horizon screamer is not really suited to the hopscotch patch hunting most of us find ourselves with now. As relayed on this very forum, dogs lost, dogs getting shot, off the permissable property, screaming, whistling with acme thunderers till you companions ears ache, electronic devices to try and wrestle control back, all the price. Cramming the square peg into a round hole causes lots of frustration for man and beast alike. Myself and others rail on this forum over the farmer who tiles a wetland, dozes a treeline, for the sake of agricultural improvement, how is that any different from attempting to remaking or improving an entire breed of dog to a standard not intended or envisioned by the breed founders. Improvement? by who's definition? Both run counter to nature, both beg the question, why? The french have a saying "Celebrate the Difference" sounds like good advice.
 
Cobblestone said:
Which grounds are those?

Grovesrpings? Booneville?

Went to grovesprings for a day, but it was horseback, didn't get to see much.

You know I'lll go anytime to see you run. I'm 45 minutes from there and you always have a place to stay!
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Thanks Buddy. Grovesprings. The problem with it is that you basically have to have a horse to see anything because the place is gigantic.
I will be there for vizsla Nationals with Sis here in March.

:)
 
Toad said:
VJohn, I thought your comments were fair, genuine, and honest. I did not take it as a personal attack in the least, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. You believe the field trials are a fun way to extend your bird hunting season. That seems like a good reason.

FCSpringer may have answered my question the best, without even intending to. I was wanting to know, "What would a guy like me and dogs like mine have to gain from trialing?" He posted that because his dog was trained to a high level and experienced in field trails, he was able to bag birds that he would not get otherwise. That's a pretty good endorsement, I think.

I appreciate you taking the time to address my question, VJohn, and if you let me know when and where there is a local trial, I would check it out. I ALWAYS like to see good dog work anyway.
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You bet.
Here's a quick rundown of the local trials and their dates.
2/25 - Fairview Ks
3/3 - Eskridge Ks
3/10 Moline Ks - That's a haul, like two hours.
3/31 Havensville Ks - Huge grounds
4/21 Madison Ks
4/28 Tonganoxie

If anyone is interested in going, or whatever, drop me a line and I will help out best I can and we can meet.

Most of these are an hour or little over from Manhattan. Some more but nothing over two and a half hours.

I think for the average guy, they are just an excellent way to get involved with something with your dog when you ain't hunting, but related to hunting. If that makes sense.
 
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jetjockey said:
Judging is incredibly subjective. BUT... At the end of the day, in FT's, the good dogs are going to consistently get placed. Sure, there are trials when you get screwed. But on the other hand, there will be trials where you place and you shouldn't have. Again, the best dogs will get placed on a regular basis. If you go to trials and your dog isn't getting placed, then there's a reason for that, and you shouldn't blame the judges.

My dog gets trialed 4 months of the year and spends her summers in SD on wild birds at summer camp getting ready for trials for 2 months. We send our brit with a pro because we don't have the time or resources to do it ourselves. However, I do occasionally handle my dog in horse back trials, and I hunt the heck out of her in the late fall and winter. IMO a few people get turned off from trialing because they think their dogs have what it takes, only to run them in a trial and figure out that they don't. Then they blame the judges. Trials are a kick in the butt and a great way to extend your hunting season. Yes, they usually require a much higher level of training, but thats because not all dogs can handle that level, and it seperates the good dogs from the great dogs. We love to watch our dog run wether Im handling her or not. If she places, great.. If she doesn't, then we really don't care. I know for a fact she should have placed in one or two big championship trials but didn't.. And I watched her run in a weekend trial where she placed second, but the only reason the trainer left her down was because we traveled 600 miles to watch her run. Otherwise, she would have been picked up.. And to be honest, I would have completely understood, because she ran like chit... I enjoy trialing and hunting.. But trialing is expensive and it takes a much higher level of training than most hunters are willing to put in. Doesn't make it better or worse, just different.:cheers:
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Great post.
 
V-John said:
You bet.
Here's a quick rundown of the local trials and their dates.
2/25 - Fairview Ks
3/3 - Eskridge Ks
3/10 Moline Ks - That's a haul, like two hours.
3/31 Havensville Ks - Huge grounds
4/21 Madison Ks
4/28 Tonganoxie

If anyone is interested in going, or whatever, drop me a line and I will help out best I can and we can meet.

Most of these are an hour or little over from Manhattan. Some more but nothing over two and a half hours.

I think for the average guy, they are just an excellent way to get involved with something with your dog when you ain't hunting, but related to hunting. If that makes sense.
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What kind of event is in eskridge? That's close and I am always hauling the family to lake wabaunsee anyway.
 
V-John-

nothing really happens out this way once the season stops-
except I take mine out for a run pretty often

why don't I look into trails- could be that they are so far away- I don't have alot of spare money

you run in a lot of trials- you know where a dog would fit-

care to be out somewhere reasonable to me to give an opinion on mine

DakatoZeb- that's about the straightest across the board wording/opinion I've ever seen- nice
 
Shadow said:
V-John-

nothing really happens out this way once the season stops-
except I take mine out for a run pretty often

why don't I look into trails- could be that they are so far away- I don't have alot of spare money

you run in a lot of trials- you know where a dog would fit-

care to be out somewhere reasonable to me to give an opinion on mine

DakatoZeb- that's about the straightest across the board wording/opinion I've ever seen- nice
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Jim, you are exactly right, I don't know what is out there. Kinda like up around the Dakotas....for the amount of hunting that goes on up there, not a lot trialing. I don't blame you for doing alot of trials though, that's a haul! I'm guessing the closest to you would be in OK or Co?
 
Toad said:
What kind of event is in eskridge? That's close and I am always hauling the family to lake wabaunsee anyway.
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There is a pointing dog club that puts on a walking trial. They will have Puppy stakes, Derby Stakes, Am Gun Dog Stakes and Shooting Dog stakes.

The shooting dog stakes are the ones that require the most polish. Dogs have to back, be fully broke, that sort of thing. The Am. Gun Dog stakes are designed for the hunter and those that don't have the dog to a level of training that the Shooting dog requires. Its geared towards the hunter, and newer folks. A LOT of people get involved in these stakes at first, and then decide they like it and move on. Honestly, it's how I got my start. Doc Hortin, my friend, has four dogs, and he runs three of them in Gun Dog. He has a great time and so do his dogs, and he's out there every weekend. He's retired Professor, and I've seen kids, handle dogs. I've seen women handle them. Judgement ceases at the flush. Meaning, if you can walk in front of your dog, and flush while your dog is on point, then what happens after the flush doesn't matter. They don't have to be fully broke. Dogs are rarely picked up in this stake, (although I've seen it happen) and it is mainly to have fun.
Puppy is well, puppy, to judge potential. Those can be a bit chaotic sometimes but its cool to see em have fun. Derby requires a bit more, but they are more like adolescent dogs, older then pups, but younger then the mature dogs. They are required to run, and point but dont' have to be steady. These can be chaotic too. But fun. Like I said, the Eskridge one, I'll go to for sure, assuming I can afford it and my dogs are healthy.
 
Shadow said:
V-John-

nothing really happens out this way once the season stops-
except I take mine out for a run pretty often

why don't I look into trails- could be that they are so far away- I don't have alot of spare money

you run in a lot of trials- you know where a dog would fit-

care to be out somewhere reasonable to me to give an opinion on mine

DakatoZeb- that's about the straightest across the board wording/opinion I've ever seen- nice
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Shadow. Here's a link to the ABC spring trial schedule this year. There are a fair amount of trials near you. NE, KS, CO, and OK all have trials. If you really want to see what its all about, make a trip down to Ardmore OK for the U.S. Open Brittany Championships in March. Most of the top brits in the country will be at that trial. People in the ABC world are pretty great, it wouldn't be hard to find a horse to ride around on for a day.

http://clubs.akc.org/brit/Calendar/2012Spring.htm
 
jetjockey said:
Shadow. Here's a link to the ABC spring trial schedule this year. There are a fair amount of trials near you. NE, KS, CO, and OK all have trials. If you really want to see what its all about, make a trip down to Ardmore OK for the U.S. Open Brittany Championships in March. Most of the top brits in the country will be at that trial. People in the ABC world are pretty great, it wouldn't be hard to find a horse to ride around on for a day.

http://clubs.akc.org/brit/Calendar/2012Spring.htm
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That counts me out.I can ride a horse,but only if the horse decides to let me.
 
V-John said:
Jim, you are exactly right, I don't know what is out there. Kinda like up around the Dakotas....for the amount of hunting that goes on up there, not a lot trialing. I don't blame you for doing alot of trials though, that's a haul! I'm guessing the closest to you would be in OK or Co?
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Yes this is an issue, unless we get new people to get involved and start new clubs in some areas. For example just like you say, in ESS AKC trials, there is 0 in SD and only 1 each spring and fall in ND.:( Would be nice to be running more out there. It is fun to run in those areas. I really enjoyed Nebraska as well. Seems like you are actualy out in Gods country hunting.
 
V-John said:
You bet.
Here's a quick rundown of the local trials and their dates.
2/25 - Fairview Ks
3/3 - Eskridge Ks
3/10 Moline Ks - That's a haul, like two hours.
3/31 Havensville Ks - Huge grounds
4/21 Madison Ks
4/28 Tonganoxie

If anyone is interested in going, or whatever, drop me a line and I will help out best I can and we can meet.

Most of these are an hour or little over from Manhattan. Some more but nothing over two and a half hours.

I think for the average guy, they are just an excellent way to get involved with something with your dog when you ain't hunting, but related to hunting. If that makes sense.
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Well, if any of those have puppy stakes, I might throw Indy out there for something to do. If I am lucky he won't stand there and look at the horses like Ace did his first couple of times.

At least I could what you and Doc kick butt. :cheers:
 
FCSpringer said:
Just for example the other day I hit a spot and Odie threw his head and went in on a bird and wam!, hen. The dog hupped "Sat". And then hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen, 8 hens flushed. He still sat there and watched and then wam! Rooster last bird, all within 5 feet of him. I hit the hup whistle once for good measure and shot the rooster. He made the retrieve. Had he not had that training like all my old hunting dogs, he would have been accross the field on the first bird with me yelling or following him and most likely not have gotten that rooster. No matter if I quit trialing some day or not. I will still train my dog the same way from now on.
:cheers:
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That would have been wonderful to see but my non steady dogs wouldn't have chased that first hen or any of the others more than 5 or 10yds without me having to stop them. I think my male knows that "hen" means no bird and I even call out hen for him when I'm hunting alone. A missed rooster is another story but even then the chase ends when he hears "no bird". Although I think a steady dog would be great an under control dog serves the same purpose.
 
Something I have never known is just how many difference field trials are there?? Anyone has a comprehensive list of trials for both pointing and non-pointing breeds? I run NSTRA trials but don't know of any others within a 3 state area. I do know that NAVHDA has a couple of clubs in the Sioux Falls area.
 
Dakotazeb said:
Something I have never known is just how many difference field trials are there?? Anyone has a comprehensive list of trials for both pointing and non-pointing breeds? I run NSTRA trials but don't know of any others within a 3 state area. I do know that NAVHDA has a couple of clubs in the Sioux Falls area.
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Good question.

Off the top of my head...

American Field
AKC
NSTRA
NAVHDA

Then there are some of the organizations that run under AF registries, like NBHA or US Complete. .
 
there is quite a few. I found this list on google.


North American Gun Dog Association NAGDA
North American Tournament Hunting Association - NATHA
NBDCA Bird dog Challenge
AFTCA Bird Dog Field Trials
Colorado Upland Dream Bird Dog Trial Series
National Shoot to Retrieve Association- NSTRA
North American Hunting Retreiver Association- NAHRA
U.S. Complete Shooting Dog Association
AKC American Kennel Club
CKC Canadian Kennel Club
Wisconsin Championship Hunting Series
National Bird Hunters Association-NBHA
Illinois Upland Series
National Upland Classic Series - Dog of the Year

sadly I think that there are many more. I was trying to make this point earlier. Fewer clubs would concentrate the numbers and make the trials more feasable ( more people to share the work load ).

Zeb is there a NSTRA trial coming up close by? I would like to watch one.:cheers:
 
feasantfever said:
there is quite a few. I found this list on google.


North American Gun Dog Association NAGDA
North American Tournament Hunting Association - NATHA
NBDCA Bird dog Challenge
AFTCA Bird Dog Field Trials
Colorado Upland Dream Bird Dog Trial Series
National Shoot to Retrieve Association- NSTRA
North American Hunting Retreiver Association- NAHRA
U.S. Complete Shooting Dog Association
AKC American Kennel Club
CKC Canadian Kennel Club
Wisconsin Championship Hunting Series
National Bird Hunters Association-NBHA
Illinois Upland Series
National Upland Classic Series - Dog of the Year

sadly I think that there are many more. I was trying to make this point earlier. Fewer clubs would concentrate the numbers and make the trials more feasable ( more people to share the work load ).

Zeb is there a NSTRA trial coming up close by? I would like to watch one.:cheers:
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feasantfever, thanks for the list but I was looking for actual dog trials. Not the clubs and various bird dog challenges.

The Mid-North Region of NSTRA includes SD, ND and MN. Here's a link to the trials this spring for your region. http://www.nstra.org/midnorth.htm
Sorry, but nothing very close for you. The 2 in Granite Falls, MN and the one in Oakes, ND would be the closest. It's amazing but we only have a few NSTRA members in SD. I plan to run in these three plus the one in Williston and one down in Waverly, NE. Nebraska is in the Mid-West Region with Iowa. What breed of dog(s) do you have?

BTW, weren't we going to try and get together for a hunt in December? Or was that someone else? Anyway, got busy and forgot. Next year!
 
good points Dakotazeb- doesn't seem to be any around here- been asking a bit- see if someone wants to share the drive expense- not much interest- really don't know if there are many dogs around here who could run a trial

the other thing about trails and why don't more- one has to wonder how many hunters actually want their dogs to creep, relocate on their own- and even want theirs jumping in to flush- actually wonder if some have tried and gave up because it wasn't the way- thus- trials don't make any scense

spring is coming- I'm looking at what I can afford in travel, even if I camp, to get to a few spring and fall trials- sure figure my Britt's would enjoy it- and there is that cleanup

plus- I really would need to spend some time at a trial ground so as to teach mine there are boundries- that I think could be done at a trial ground- sure would take some doing- think I'll visit a trial down south and see about it

good luck to you- let us know how you do- imagine you're up in the top of the field with that fine Britt
 
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