Why Don't More People Field Trial

V-John said:
Riley fortunately or unfortunately (depending how you look at it) knows when we are at a trial and will squall until his turn is up. It's annoying, I hate it, BUT he will do that until it's his turn. I've seen dogs literally shake with excitement. My own included. They have fun. I have fun. I've met so many friends through trialing, because we all have something in common, the dogs. To me, it's not about the winning, or losing. (I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm just as competitive as the next guy) It's about the whole package.
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Oh how true. These dogs, especially the ones out of field trial breeding, learn that they are at a trial very fast. When I take my Brittany, Elle, out of her kennel to go and get in the blind she knows what's about to happen. She drives me nuts in the blind. Squealing, jumping on me, etc. She just gets so excited that she can't control herself. Then when we hear the words "Bring 'em out" she literally drags me to the starting line. To see that kind of enthusiasm is fantastic. And like I said before, whether she places or not is not the most important thing. I know she is doing what she loves to do and I also am having a fun time.

I realize that the cost is a factor for some. NSTRA trials are usually $40-45 per run. Most trials are a "Double, Double" which means 2 days on 2 fields. You can run once per day on each field so a weekend means 4 runs for a total cost of $160-180. However, you need not run 4 times and can run once or twice. Of course the above is if you were running just one dog.
 
My only issue with trialing is that I've seen it too many times turn into more about the people then the dogs.

Dogs score better if they are owned and run by certain people, others not as well.

I'm sure that this isn't the case everywhere, but I've seen it happen too many times.

Not my thing, my dogs only have to prove it to me and not anyones else.
 
Cobblestone said:
My only issue with trialing is that I've seen it too many times turn into more about the people then the dogs.

Dogs score better if they are owned and run by certain people, others not as well.

I'm sure that this isn't the case everywhere, but I've seen it happen too many times.

Not my thing, my dogs only have to prove it to me and not anyones else.
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I can see that Chuck, judging can be very subjective. It is a human element.

I suppose that it depends on the perspective.
You are close to some of the best grounds in the nation though.
 
It's like that with dairy and beef cattle judging around where I live.It's also affected the goat and sheep judging too around here.I used to show belgian draft horses and that's why I got out of it because of the things mentioned in previous posts.
 
Questions about Eligibility

Forgive my ignorance

I have a rescue dog; no papers, no pedigree, no nothing to "prove" anything; are there organizations that would allow me to participate in their tests/trials?

If so, please point me in a direction, I have not had any luck in the past year finding a group willing.
 
beaker said:
Forgive my ignorance

I have a rescue dog; no papers, no pedigree, no nothing to "prove" anything; are there organizations that would allow me to participate in their tests/trials?

If so, please point me in a direction, I have not had any luck in the past year finding a group willing.
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Although not a trial or test NAGDA is a fun venue to run any type of "gun dog" in. Dogs compete against others of their style and class (puppy, amateur, open) with yourself as the gunner, you can make or break your dogs run with your shooting. I've had nothing but a good time at these events and dogs (and hunters) are scored on performance not style.
 
beaker said:
Forgive my ignorance

I have a rescue dog; no papers, no pedigree, no nothing to "prove" anything; are there organizations that would allow me to participate in their tests/trials?

If so, please point me in a direction, I have not had any luck in the past year finding a group willing.
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I believe, you can get a PAL listing on the dog if you want and can do hunt tests as well. (AKC)
Around here, you can do the gun dog stakes (judgement ceases at the flush) if you want, you'll get a win and trophy but it won't count per se on paper with the American Field.
 
quail hound, I'll look into NAGDA, thanks for the info

V-John, I explored the PAL/ILP but some groups don't recognize it for their tests/trials

what are gun dog stakes? again forgive my lack of knowledge
 
why so many?

I also think the numbers would improve if there were fewer trials. there are just to many different types. it looks like somebodies dog didn't win, so they go start a new organization with their own rules, to favor their own dog.
 
PS, And When I say trial, I mean trial. Hunt tests are a different animal. That is a pass or fail run, you compete against no one. It does not give you a FC AFC or NFC title. Those are field trials. Hunt tests can be fun, and you do not need to take the dog to the high level of training required to be successful at trials. There is also several levels, Master, senior, or junior. But they are not the same thing. Many people even with show dogs go to those events. But trials are a tougher animal and you do run against every one with the goal of an AKC FC AFC NFC etc. Hunt tests are not titles, but rather a pass certification at MH,SH,or JH. The BDC and other venues as well are foot and shoot timed events that can be fun and competitive as well. But again have nothing to do with AKC championships on your dogs papers. As George"ZEB" said, the most important thing is you and your dog having fun. With that attitude you will be successful sooner or later. Having a sour puss attitude about it and or judging will get you no where but back home. If you enjoy what ever events, and stick with it, you will learn quickly who or who not to run under. Those facts are there and some guys like some things the next does not. As said we are human and you can deal with that. In our events if a judge is that bad our clubs simply would not ask them to judge again. I have not seen any crappy judging that I was upset over. Mostly pout once and a while about my own bad luck. Shake it off and go give em hell next week. And Have fun..:thumbsup:
 
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V-John said:
I can see that Chuck, judging can be very subjective. It is a human element.

I suppose that it depends on the perspective.
You are close to some of the best grounds in the nation though.
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Which grounds are those?

Grovesrpings? Booneville?

Went to grovesprings for a day, but it was horseback, didn't get to see much.

You know I'lll go anytime to see you run. I'm 45 minutes from there and you always have a place to stay!
 
Judging is incredibly subjective. BUT... At the end of the day, in FT's, the good dogs are going to consistently get placed. Sure, there are trials when you get screwed. But on the other hand, there will be trials where you place and you shouldn't have. Again, the best dogs will get placed on a regular basis. If you go to trials and your dog isn't getting placed, then there's a reason for that, and you shouldn't blame the judges.

My dog gets trialed 4 months of the year and spends her summers in SD on wild birds at summer camp getting ready for trials for 2 months. We send our brit with a pro because we don't have the time or resources to do it ourselves. However, I do occasionally handle my dog in horse back trials, and I hunt the heck out of her in the late fall and winter. IMO a few people get turned off from trialing because they think their dogs have what it takes, only to run them in a trial and figure out that they don't. Then they blame the judges. Trials are a kick in the butt and a great way to extend your hunting season. Yes, they usually require a much higher level of training, but thats because not all dogs can handle that level, and it seperates the good dogs from the great dogs. We love to watch our dog run wether Im handling her or not. If she places, great.. If she doesn't, then we really don't care. I know for a fact she should have placed in one or two big championship trials but didn't.. And I watched her run in a weekend trial where she placed second, but the only reason the trainer left her down was because we traveled 600 miles to watch her run. Otherwise, she would have been picked up.. And to be honest, I would have completely understood, because she ran like chit... I enjoy trialing and hunting.. But trialing is expensive and it takes a much higher level of training than most hunters are willing to put in. Doesn't make it better or worse, just different.:cheers:
 
I guess because I'd be laughed off the field.But I have to say that i've hunted with people who do.Some of their dogs definately put that training to work in the real world.But I've seen some highly trained dogs who can't hunt a lick,too.I guess i expect less from my dogs than some.

My criteria for a good gun dog: Hunt and quarter in gun range,flush,retrieve.Respond to basic hand,voice and whistle commands.Good Dog.
 
jetjockey said:
Judging is incredibly subjective. BUT... At the end of the day, in FT's, the good dogs are going to consistently get placed. Sure, there are trials when you get screwed. But on the other hand, there will be trials where you place and you shouldn't have. Again, the best dogs will get placed on a regular basis. If you go to trials and your dog isn't getting placed, then there's a reason for that, and you shouldn't blame the judges.

My dog gets trialed 4 months of the year and spends her summers in SD on wild birds at summer camp getting ready for trials for 2 months. We send our brit with a pro because we don't have the time or resources to do it ourselves. However, I do occasionally handle my dog in horse back trials, and I hunt the heck out of her in the late fall and winter. IMO a few people get turned off from trialing because they think their dogs have what it takes, only to run them in a trial and figure out that they don't. Then they blame the judges. Trials are a kick in the butt and a great way to extend your hunting season. Yes, they usually require a much higher level of training, but thats because not all dogs can handle that level, and it seperates the good dogs from the great dogs. We love to watch our dog run wether Im handling her or not. If she places, great.. If she doesn't, then we really don't care. I know for a fact she should have placed in one or two big championship trials but didn't.. And I watched her run in a weekend trial where she placed second, but the only reason the trainer left her down was because we traveled 600 miles to watch her run. Otherwise, she would have been picked up.. And to be honest, I would have completely understood, because she ran like chit... I enjoy trialing and hunting.. But trialing is expensive and it takes a much higher level of training than most hunters are willing to put in. Doesn't make it better or worse, just different.:cheers:
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Wow, nail on the head. Could not have said it better. Sounds like the same thing I see week after week. And In flushing Spaniel trials. Go figure. Good luck to you next season. I had a great year this year, but don't know if the next will be. I believe we can and will have a great time trying. One thing for sure I do know is. My dogs are much much better hunting dogs because of this training, not even close. Just for example the other day I hit a spot and Odie threw his head and went in on a bird and wam!, hen. The dog hupped "Sat". And then hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen, 8 hens flushed. He still sat there and watched and then wam! Rooster last bird, all within 5 feet of him. I hit the hup whistle once for good measure and shot the rooster. He made the retrieve. Had he not had that training like all my old hunting dogs, he would have been accross the field on the first bird with me yelling or following him and most likely not have gotten that rooster. No matter if I quit trialing some day or not. I will still train my dog the same way from now on.
:cheers:
 
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FCSpringer said:
Wow, nail on the head. Could not have said it better. Sounds like the same thing I see week after week. And In flushing Spaniel trials. Go figure. Good luck to you next season. I had a great year this year, but don't know if the next will be. I believe we can and will have a great time trying. One thing for sure I do know is. My dogs are much much better hunting dogs because of this training, not even close. Just for example the other day I hit a spot and Odie threw his head and went in on a bird and wam!, hen. The dog hupped "Sat". And then hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen,hen, 8 hens flushed. He still sat there and watched and then wam! Rooster last bird, all within 5 feet of him. I hit the hup whistle once for good measure and shot the rooster. He made the retrieve. Had he not had that training like all my old hunting dogs, he would have been accross the field on the first bird with me yelling or following him and most likely not have gotten that rooster. No matter if I quit trialing some day or not. I will still train my dog the same way from now on.
:cheers:
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This is a little off-topic but can you pointer guys tell me how your dogs respond to multiple birds as described above? I have never hunted over a pointing dog and just wonder how they react to dozens,or hundreds of birds all in the same patch of cover?

FCSpringer,I taught my second and third spaniels to hup at the flush,but ended up not insisting on it because it seemed like if they got right on a down bird in thick cover that I lost less cripples.Did I do those dogs a disservice?I was always quick with the "gone away" command and it seemed like they would just move on to the next flush after not hearing a shot but not much tendancy to chase them away once they did flush.
 
ranchodeluxe said:
This is a little off-topic but can you pointer guys tell me how your dogs respond to multiple birds as described above? I have never hunted over a pointing dog and just wonder how they react to dozens,or hundreds of birds all in the same patch of cover?

FCSpringer,I taught my second and third spaniels to hup at the flush,but ended up not insisting on it because it seemed like if they got right on a down bird in thick cover that I lost less cripples.Did I do those dogs a disservice?I was always quick with the "gone away" command and it seemed like they would just move on to the next flush after not hearing a shot but not much tendancy to chase them away once they did flush.
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A completely broke pointing dog is going to remain standing after the point, flush, shot and fall, no matter how many birds are there. Then be sent for the retrieve. Additionally, if a bird flushes wild, it should stop to flush. Which is if a bird takes to the air, they stop and stand until released.

This is a pretty high level of training, which I have not gotten my dogs to.

John has gotten me to take my dog to a few field trials. They are fun, and can be somewhat humbling. You will definitely find out what part of your training is weak :rolleyes:

My 3 year old setter is never going to be a winning trial dog. He doesn't have the range, and tends to get distracted by the people and horses.

My new pup on the other hand may do better in trials, we will see.

The only thing that I have trouble with at trials, is the amount of time spent at them waiting your turn. I like to be out in the field with my dog, and waiting for all the other to run gets old. Especially when I have to listen to my very vocal dog :(

Its fun, but it is not as much fun as hunting, or training for that matter to me. But it is a lot better than sitting at home.
 
VJohn, I thought your comments were fair, genuine, and honest. I did not take it as a personal attack in the least, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. You believe the field trials are a fun way to extend your bird hunting season. That seems like a good reason.

FCSpringer may have answered my question the best, without even intending to. I was wanting to know, "What would a guy like me and dogs like mine have to gain from trialing?" He posted that because his dog was trained to a high level and experienced in field trails, he was able to bag birds that he would not get otherwise. That's a pretty good endorsement, I think.

I appreciate you taking the time to address my question, VJohn, and if you let me know when and where there is a local trial, I would check it out. I ALWAYS like to see good dog work anyway.
 
ranchodeluxe said:
I guess because I'd be laughed off the field.But I have to say that i've hunted with people who do.Some of their dogs definately put that training to work in the real world.But I've seen some highly trained dogs who can't hunt a lick,too.I guess i expect less from my dogs than some.

My criteria for a good gun dog: Hunt and quarter in gun range,flush,retrieve.Respond to basic hand,voice and whistle commands.Good Dog.
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I've hunted with three different field trail dogs. Two of them were REALLY good hunting dogs, and the third had a screw loose or something. I don't think it was a good field trial dog, but it was run in trials anyway.

The owner of one of the good trial dogs was a complete ass. I would have liked to put the shock collar on him for an afternoon, and also take his dog.

Anyway, two of them were REALLY good hunting dogs.

In terms of natural ability, I think Daisy has held her own with any dog that we have ever hunted with. The trial dog's level of training and conditioning is something that she can't touch, and certainly never will. BUT those dogs couldn't match her in terms of loyalty, cooperation, and hunting for DAD.
 
Toad said:
I've hunted with three different field trail dogs. Two of them were REALLY good hunting dogs, and the third had a screw loose or something. I don't think it was a good field trial dog, but it was run in trials anyway.

The owner of one of the good trial dogs was a complete ass. I would have liked to put the shock collar on him for an afternoon, and also take his dog.

Anyway, two of them were REALLY good hunting dogs.

In terms of natural ability, I think Daisy has held her own with any dog that we have ever hunted with. The trial dog's level of training and conditioning is something that she can't touch, and certainly never will. BUT those dogs couldn't match her in terms of loyalty, cooperation, and hunting for DAD.
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LOL I hear ya. And if your dog has that "IT" factor I call it, that natural ability, that is exactly what you are looking for in a trial dog and the drive or ambition to go along with it. Bidability is a term used often. I firmly believe some are sucessful because they have a uncanny ability to recognize that in a pup early. Simply because they have seen so many dogs. Heres another one,:D and one we all most likely will or have ran into. Took River out a couple weeks ago. Flushed 2 rudy's and a hen on one side of the brush and I am on the other, the wrong side to shoot. She hupped and we moved on. A little further and she smokes a rooster up and I shot at where the corn goes out instead of in. The bird climed and fluttered about 300 yards over the neighboring property.:mad: Then it fell straight down in the dirt field. It is now laying there dead on land I do not have permission to go. So I heal River up to the border. Line her up and give her a line,"fetch!" She took a nice line and made the retrieve. Totaly legal and actualy in MN with out a gun I could have went. But I did not have to stumble around in plowing and wander around for an hr looking for this dang bird. It was retrieved in about a half a minute and we went a bit further from where we left off and she got a second retrieve to end the day.:thumbsup: You get to see some of the best dogs in the US every week too and that is cool. It gives a person a better perspective on what to breed or not to breed in dogs as well.
 
I think that most field trial dogs make very good hunting dogs due to their breeding, level of drive and training. But not all good hunting dogs will do well in field trials because they lack the specific training and/or breeding.

But, with that said, here's my take on my 3 year old Brittany that I run in NSTRA trials. She has all the breeding of a champion trial dog but I have never specifically trained her for the trials. It was more like OTJ training. She does everything very well that is required in the NSTRA trials. All natural ability. She is also a very good hunter but if I had to pick one thing that may work against her in the hunting field is that she is a big runner. Great for NSTRA but not always the best in the field. I can keep her in close when needed but she loves to run hard. So hard that in spite of being in excellent condition she does run out of gas after 2-3 days of hunting in a row.
 
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