What do you consider a big running dog?
- Thread starter duckn66
- Start date
35 yards
Spoken like a true flushing dog man. I have said many times, on here, that I believe that concerning pheasants, a flushing spaniel or lab will put more birds in the bag, day in day out, than a pointing dog, especially a pointing dog which routinely works outside gun range. It's the bird as much as the type of dog. Quail hunting is not nearly as fun with a flushing dog, but we barely have any of those anymore anyway. Big running for a pheasant dog, I would say 100 yards give or take, and I think whether you know it, admit it, or not, your going to lose opportunities to shoot. But putting a number on it seems beside the point. A pointer can be a great dog whether working at 30 yards or 300. If the search is intense and thorough but close, it suits me fine, if the search is sweeping and long casts out of contact are taken, yet the dog stays until found, it's magnificent. I have seen big ranging pointing dogs that handle on a string, just a long string! Now we can argue semmantics, say there's more to hunting than shooting opportunites, and all that's true. For a flusher, that dog better be in gun range, and under tight control, or it's a mess. With the pointers, it's the thrill of independent search and the breathtaking point that seals the deal, lost shots are soon forgotten, the hunt measured in pride. It was so with quail hunters in times past, I don't remember a conversation starting with the daily take.... more like you should have seen old Bo, stuck that covey down by the swamp. These days we hunt a lot of patches, 40 here, 80 there,may not have access to the property adjacent where "old Bo" has stuck the bird at 1/2mile, or worse yet is still looking!
Shadow
Banned
Semantics
[ ! Now we can argue semmantics, that dog better be in gun range,
Best define gunrange? I would tend to allow me spaniels a lot more ground than 35 yrds.Even giving them 100 would be know big deal,understanding cover and bird concentrations. Knowing how well my gun fits, and the ammo I use, when hunting I tend to put the whistle in me pocket and follow the dog.
No bigger thrill for me than set me dog up with an all-age retrieve (50-100yrds depending on terrain). None of this meat hunter chopping birds off the end of me gun barrell.
Range is all in the eye of the beholder for some is ugly and others it is a thing of beauty.
Bets of fortunes
[ ! Now we can argue semmantics, that dog better be in gun range,
Best define gunrange? I would tend to allow me spaniels a lot more ground than 35 yrds.Even giving them 100 would be know big deal,understanding cover and bird concentrations. Knowing how well my gun fits, and the ammo I use, when hunting I tend to put the whistle in me pocket and follow the dog.
No bigger thrill for me than set me dog up with an all-age retrieve (50-100yrds depending on terrain). None of this meat hunter chopping birds off the end of me gun barrell.
Range is all in the eye of the beholder for some is ugly and others it is a thing of beauty.
Bets of fortunes
quail hound
Moderator
I let my springers range up to 50 or so yards uphill while hunting wild chukar. Now that's running big.
what are your thoughts- how big does your dog run
mine vary
Well my main hunting dog right now is a Lab. So she doesn't get to far and I don't let her. 40 yards furthest.
My Vizsla (sp), who is now 12 going on 13 in his younger years would range depending on cover. If hunting thick cover he was a little more meticulous and stayed a little closer. Open range or hedgerow type cover he would cover some ground (big for him) and range out to 100 yards or so. I really liked that about him.
In the past I've had one great big pointer who had some major wheels and would pick it up and lay it down. And another little female pointer who was the nicest walking shooting dog I've ever owned. English pointers.
I'm going to get another strictly bird dog and am leaning towards another English pointer right now if I can fine the right one.
BritChaser
Well-known member
A big running dog, IMHO, is one that goes beyond gun range, if it's a pointing dog, of course. I let my Brit go beyond range so long as he isn't trailing moving birds. If he is trailing, then I regulate his range so the flush is within gun range. If I am hunting alone, I let my dog get pretty far off so long as I can see him.
Big running, to me, means I can not see them.
That varies in distance on whether I am in the U.P, Kansas or the Appalachians.
My setters run "out" based upon cover and bird populations.
I'm sure they each miss some close birds and never reach out to that one long spot that holds a bird.
I could not care less about dog range...I hope they care less about my shooting.
If you can end a day, a trip or a season with birds enough in the bag then bird dog range is so much of so little.
jeffstally
Member
Anything over 100 yards would be big running for a pointer IMO.
My setter runs about 80-100, my springers 30 max.
My setter runs about 80-100, my springers 30 max.
You also have to keep in mind the wind. I hunt pheasants with a lab and into the wind I like them 40 yds or less. However, with a cross wind she will range a little further ahead and when we have to hunt with the wind she will cast out to 75 or 80 yds and hunt back, which is fine with me. She may flush birds too far to shoot but she is also covering a lot more ground and thus finding more birds. Some of which will be between her and I which is what you want. Lots of variables to that question, most importantly I want to know she is hunting for me and not for her!
'Hunting with me and not for himeslf' must be more a flusher thing.
My setters may be out at 150, point and will wait, with impatient looks, untill I arrive....we are hunting as a team.
Not always bowl-qualified but a team nonetheless.
Distance has absolutely nothing to do with a dog self-hunting.
My setters may be out at 150, point and will wait, with impatient looks, untill I arrive....we are hunting as a team.
Not always bowl-qualified but a team nonetheless.
Distance has absolutely nothing to do with a dog self-hunting.
Definition of to much range, colloquial version. Dog is not honest and busts birds, can't be found on point or otherwise, can't be recalled if off the course. All of which have nothing to do with range, but that's the simple version of the complaint. i hunted years ago with the original import continental dogs, I literally could find more birds than most of those and got real tired of being tripped in heavy cover by dogs walking on my heels. Now we may all disagree about maximum range, but I sure know what way to little range when I see it!
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ranchodeluxe
Member
If you are going to let a spaniel run-out 100 yards around here,you are going to see a lot of birds,but you will never get a shot at one.
SetterNut
New member
In this area, I would say a big running dog is going to spend most of its time outside of 150 yards. I consider mine to be a medium range dog working in the 50 -150 yard range.
But when I took him out west into big open county (NW Kansas) in Wheat Stubble, he was well outside 150 most of the time and some of the time at 250+. He could see me, and kept pushing out to pin birds. The cover in the area greatly changes the definition of big running.
Are there times on pheasants that a pointing dog can't hold the bird long enough for you to get there. Sure, but with a closer working dog you would see very few of these birds. I can tell you that we shot some birds that were pointed at over 150 yards that we would not have gotten otherwise, and we saw some that flew off long before we got there.
You make trade-offs with any type dog you choose. Pick the one you like.
But on quail, there is no question that pointing dogs that are out there covering objectives is a big help. Heck in some parts of the country it is illegal to hunt quail with anything other than a pointing dog
But when I took him out west into big open county (NW Kansas) in Wheat Stubble, he was well outside 150 most of the time and some of the time at 250+. He could see me, and kept pushing out to pin birds. The cover in the area greatly changes the definition of big running.
Are there times on pheasants that a pointing dog can't hold the bird long enough for you to get there. Sure, but with a closer working dog you would see very few of these birds. I can tell you that we shot some birds that were pointed at over 150 yards that we would not have gotten otherwise, and we saw some that flew off long before we got there.
You make trade-offs with any type dog you choose. Pick the one you like.
But on quail, there is no question that pointing dogs that are out there covering objectives is a big help. Heck in some parts of the country it is illegal to hunt quail with anything other than a pointing dog
Oregonbirdguy
New member
In pure distance...i don't consider a pointer big running unless its consistantly over 200yds and often clear of 300yds out...thats big running...
Now in terms of pheasant hunting i would consider anything over 100yds pretty big for the pheasant hunting cover i frequent.
Now in terms of pheasant hunting i would consider anything over 100yds pretty big for the pheasant hunting cover i frequent.
OKIEGunner
New member
But on quail, there is no question that pointing dogs that are out there covering objectives is a big help. Heck in some parts of the country it is illegal to hunt quail with anything other than a pointing dog
Oklahoma is one of those states
Guess I'm at an impasse on this one. Although I do own and love pointers, I don't run mine big at all... 70 yards tops. My issue is, even if the dog is honest, a smart or spooked bird might bust. I've seen it happen on a few instances towards the end of a field where the bird gets up, then 30 or 40 of his brothers and sisters decide to take off into the sunset as well.
Is it fun to watch? Of course. Does it put birds in the bag... nope.
So I suppose to answer the question, my opinion of a big runner would be a dog on a 150 yard tether.
Is it fun to watch? Of course. Does it put birds in the bag... nope.
So I suppose to answer the question, my opinion of a big runner would be a dog on a 150 yard tether.
I think what everybody is grappling with, is if your dog sticks a pheasant, as we used to say in the trial game, "way out on a limb", can a foot hunter get there before the bird hoofs it, or busts wild, and will that dog truly find more birds than a thorough closer working dog. I have long suspected that we, dogs and all, walk past as many birds as we find way out there, and now even the quail run and flush wild routinely. Conversely, I am absolutely positive as has been mentioned here, that I have seen dogs stick birds way out there, that would have never been seen by slower moving, methodical work. One thing for sure, more dogs, of all persuasions really make pheasants nervous and give you an advantage. I have frequently run 6 pups all at one time, in thick 160A CRP quarters, some big runners, some closer, birds freeze and hold everywhere. I am convinced it's because the birds couldn't keep track of that number of moving pieces, with no discernable pattern. I have hunted the same areas with 2 dogs and had proportional success, but nothing like the army of barkness approach. Of course I have a heck of a time keeping track of all the dogs too!