I am interested in putting in filter strips on a hilly Northeast Missouri farm. There are a few pheasant around but more quail. I have been told that fescue is better than warm season grasses as it grows in mats (like sod) rather than clumps (like warm season grasses). Does anone have experience planting warm season grasses in filter strips in more errosive areas? Is it possible to put a 5-10 foot center strip of fescue and a warm season grass border? What warm season grasses are better at stopping erosion?
Warm Season Grass for filter strips
- Thread starter RBN
- Start date
FCSpringer
Moderator
I would get some switch grass in with what ever you do.
mnmthunting
Banned
As long as Your doing it, make some bird habitat. Stay away from the Fescue. There are lots of varieties of Fescue all bad some worse then others. I'm talking about value to game birds. For erosion control Fescue would do the job.
Look into native Blue Joint also know as Western Wheat Grass. Warm season, excellent erosion control and nesting cover.
Look into native Blue Joint also know as Western Wheat Grass. Warm season, excellent erosion control and nesting cover.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Fescue is a total negative for wildlife. The best wildlife NWSG species for birds are Little Bluestem and Sideoats Gramma as major species, Big Bluestem, Indiangrass, Buffalograss, Blue Gramma and Switchgrass as minor components of a mixture. Western Wheatgrass is a cool season grass and you don't live in a cool season state. It could be included as a minor component. In the most erosive areas, an erosion planting of straight Switchgrass would be recommended. That usually runs about 8 pounds per acre. For the planting to provide the most benefit, you should include a diverse mixture of native forb species as well.
To correct what you've been told, clump grasses are the most beneficial for wildlife. Sod forming species are the most effective at controlling erosion.
To correct what you've been told, clump grasses are the most beneficial for wildlife. Sod forming species are the most effective at controlling erosion.
RBN, As stated fesque as very little benefit for wildlife cover but is the best for erosion stoppage. Also fesque will take over everything else fairly quick. Having had some experience on my Mo. farm with fesque as well as warm season grass I used a cover crop, oats or rye or wheat, hoping my warm season grass would get established before my cover crop died. Weeds have a way of holding erosion down but do limit moisture and the fertility for your warm season grass so might have to rotary mow, real high, for awile too. Hope I helped you a little but no easy answer and weather plays a big part too.
mnmthunting
Banned
Funny post Prairie Drifter. 
Illinois happens to be VERY much a cool season grass state.
Study up.
Illinois happens to be VERY much a cool season grass state.
Study up.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Mn, was reknowned for being a significant tall grass prairie state before man turned it over. Study up!
It think it was known as "the prairie state"! Since we had no fescue here till the USDA and the farmers planted it, what else could it be!
mnmthunting
Banned
Western Wheat Grass would be far better then Fescue for what RBN is after.
Nothing wrong with the Warm season grasses either. Anything but Fescue.
MN 1/10 of 1 percent remaining native grasslands are places that couldn't be plowed. Such as rocky ridges, RR right of ways (in some cases) and stuff just to poor to farm. Even these Native grass lands are infested with introduced plants such as Smooth Brome, Fescue and lots of other stuff. Same as most everywhere MN is the transition between prairie and Woodland. MN native Tall Grass Prairie was in the SW and Extreme Western part of the State. MN was more of a woodland State then a grassland.
Natives like Little Blue Stem and Side Oats Grama, are good and are more prevalent in the Short Grass Prairies.
Big Blue Stem was the dominate WSG in MN, WI, IL and the Eastern Dakotas.
For sure many other grasses and forbs mixed in. As You go West of The Missouri River Little Blue and Side Oats will be more dominate.
PD's lesson for the day.:cheers:
Nothing wrong with the Warm season grasses either. Anything but Fescue.
MN 1/10 of 1 percent remaining native grasslands are places that couldn't be plowed. Such as rocky ridges, RR right of ways (in some cases) and stuff just to poor to farm. Even these Native grass lands are infested with introduced plants such as Smooth Brome, Fescue and lots of other stuff. Same as most everywhere
MN is the transition between prairie and Woodland. MN native Tall Grass Prairie was in the SW and Extreme Western part of the State. MN was more of a woodland State then a grassland.Natives like Little Blue Stem and Side Oats Grama, are good and are more prevalent in the Short Grass Prairies.
Big Blue Stem was the dominate WSG in MN, WI, IL and the Eastern Dakotas.
For sure many other grasses and forbs mixed in. As You go West of The Missouri River Little Blue and Side Oats will be more dominate.
PD's lesson for the day.:cheers:
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
To be clear, we were talking about Illinois. My reference to Mn, was a direct response to Mnmt. Sorry for the confusion.
FCSpringer
Moderator
Yep sounds like a good mix there. Actualy MN does still have some old original acres of the true native grass, never tilled, never grazed never touched other then a burn I spose. I doubt any states south, or any where for that matter can say that. I have seen it and it most certainly looks much nicer then any new seedings. Beautiful.:thumbsup:
SetterNut
New member
Kansas has a substantial amount of native grass.
quail hound
Moderator
:cheers::10sign: Me too.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Thanks folks, the list of things I've forgot is getting longer at an accelerated rate I never know when what I've said is being fully understood, but some of the facts Mnmt brought up illuminated an area that might need more explanation. He stated that the taller species of NWSG were dominant in the east and the clump grasses (little bluestem and Sideoats) are more dominant in the west and that is quite true. However, when you choose quail as the target species, your goal is to produce the optimal structure to facilitate their increase. Those taller species are sod forming and also tend to more quickly become too dense and carry too much thatch. This becomes an impediment to quail movement, feeding, and nesting. By adjusting the seeding mix at the get go, you target the appropriate structure necessary for quail and avoid the eventual stand from becoming degraded so quickly and needing management inputs. You need to present your desires to the NRCS and try to get them to design your seeding mix to meet both your bobwhite goals, but also their soil protection goals. The clumpy, more open at ground level structure that will be the result will facilitate quail increase and leave space for the essential forbs too. Have I missed explaining something important? You will need the essential brush component. That may be provided in adjoining habitat, within the planting, or by half-cutting trees or building brush piles. Remember though that any brush piles should be dense on the perimeter and more open in the middle instead of dense in the center and more beneficial for furbearing predators. Sounds like a fun project!
I never know when what I've said is being fully understood, but some of the facts Mnmt brought up illuminated an area that might need more explanation. He stated that the taller species of NWSG were dominant in the east and the clump grasses (little bluestem and Sideoats) are more dominant in the west and that is quite true. However, when you choose quail as the target species, your goal is to produce the optimal structure to facilitate their increase. Those taller species are sod forming and also tend to more quickly become too dense and carry too much thatch. This becomes an impediment to quail movement, feeding, and nesting. By adjusting the seeding mix at the get go, you target the appropriate structure necessary for quail and avoid the eventual stand from becoming degraded so quickly and needing management inputs. You need to present your desires to the NRCS and try to get them to design your seeding mix to meet both your bobwhite goals, but also their soil protection goals. The clumpy, more open at ground level structure that will be the result will facilitate quail increase and leave space for the essential forbs too. Have I missed explaining something important? You will need the essential brush component. That may be provided in adjoining habitat, within the planting, or by half-cutting trees or building brush piles. Remember though that any brush piles should be dense on the perimeter and more open in the middle instead of dense in the center and more beneficial for furbearing predators. Sounds like a fun project!
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Small step for a climber Steve! You'll probably want about a month of woodcock flights staying in the hedge rows as well?
I should probably have mentioned that filter strips aren't grazed generally and the density/thatch evolution with the structure will be harder to keep in shape than the same mix in a grazed scenario. This is why to emulate the western seeding mix over the more native eastern mix from the start.
I should probably have mentioned that filter strips aren't grazed generally and the density/thatch evolution with the structure will be harder to keep in shape than the same mix in a grazed scenario. This is why to emulate the western seeding mix over the more native eastern mix from the start.
Thanks for the input. It sounds as if I should go with little bluestem, sideoats gramma and maybe some switchgrass, but the NRCS needs to approve this? I was thinking of planting plum thickets for the shrubs, does anyone have other suggestions for shrubs? My only concern is that the USDA soil erosion person may say I have to use fescue, that is why I wanted some quail friendly options I could suggest. The county (in this case Knox) has a DNR quail/wildlife agent who can help with the management plan. Thanks again.
mnmthunting
Banned
My problem is, I'm always thinking Pheasants first.
I totally agree with Prairie drifter on the quail habitat.
The brushy cover and taller grasses will also benefit Pheasants.
I totally agree with Prairie drifter on the quail habitat.
The brushy cover and taller grasses will also benefit Pheasants.