True Environmentalists Campaign a Crock or Not

Is this campaign a Crock or Not a Crock

  • Crock of ...

    Votes: 23 92.0%

  • Not a Crock of ...

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Total voters
    25
UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
Major crock. I know some of the old board members and before this campaign I heard them basically saying all the birds need to thrive was corn. Beleive me boys, they are ripping this country up. Burning tilling ,tiling and draining. I clipped a notice from a township in western Minnehaha Co. telling the farmers to stop without permits. The County and state do not seem to give a damn. County board littered with farmers.
 
Major crock, probably shares board members with the " Ethanol will save the USA" organization, and British Petroleum.
 
I'm going to call this a crock, but let me start by saying that the majority of farmers, especially the family farmer, care about the land. I think in regards to the environment most of them do not try to employ practices that are harmful in many respects. Poor practices exist in many cases due to ignorance or because they aren't cost effective.

This country needs agriculture to thrive and that's hard to argue. However, agriculture has done a great job of public relations to the point where they can get away with almost everything. I'm a Wisconsin native, one generation removed from the farm. I've been to SD about 10 times pheasant hunting, but am obviously most familiar with WI farms and their practices. I've yet to see no-till corn in my Sd trips, all of which have included at least a day in White Lake [one farmer in the video professing to no-till was from White Lake].

In the area where I live there is a resevoir on a river, the Eau Plaine Resevoir. The watersheds that feeds it is largely farmland. The water is so laden with nutrients that they have aerators, which failed two years ago, resulting in hige fish dieoff. It's poor farm practices that allow the manure runoff, but who did the public blame? Not farmers, but the WI Dept of Natural Resources. That's an example of how succesful the farm lobby and PR campaign has been.
 
Ranger Rick said:
I'm going to call this a crock, but let me start by saying that the majority of farmers, especially the family farmer, care about the land.
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I am a little confused on why you would say it is a crock when you say the majority o farmers care about the land?
 
Uncle Buck said:
Major crock. I know some of the old board members and before this campaign I heard them basically saying all the birds need to thrive was corn. Beleive me boys, they are ripping this country up. Burning tilling ,tiling and draining. I clipped a notice from a township in western Minnehaha Co. telling the farmers to stop without permits. The County and state do not seem to give a damn. County board littered with farmers.
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I just came back from chamberlain. I cannot believe how much the land is changing, particularly in western Minnehaha county, like you said. Plowed sloughs, huge piles of ripped out trees, etc.

Since when is a dozer, trackhoe, and a scraper farm equipment? and yes, it is owned by the farmer...
 
reddog said:
I just came back from chamberlain. I cannot believe how much the land is changing, particularly in western Minnehaha county, like you said. Plowed sloughs, huge piles of ripped out trees, etc.

Since when is a dozer, trackhoe, and a scraper farm equipment? and yes, it is owned by the farmer...
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Since 6.00 corn and John Deere, and Catepillar provide in house financing.
 
This video brought to you in part by Monsanto.:D

Honestly I would like to believe it but seeing the farming practices around here and knowing a lot of farmers I just don't. Maybe those farmers are different though I don't know.
 
Dozer, scraper, and skidloader. Pretty soon dirt movers in rural areas will be out of work, if farmers start to tile themselves.
 
I don't see how you can put all farmers together. There are farmers that are clearly not good for the land. But there are farmers that do a lot of good things for land. Just like there are people that I am ashamed to have them called hunters, and others that are a true credit to the sport. Personaly I do not consider myself an environmentalst but rather a conservationist. There is a huge amount of no till farming in SD. Sometimes there needs to be some tillage to correct problems like ruts in a field after too much moisture. As to whether it is a "crock", every group with an agenda spins things they want things to be seen. Just like pheasants forever and ducks unlimited.
 
Once again the Farmer/Agriculture bashing appears on this board. I am begining to think the name of this board should be changed to "ultimate farmer bashing". How many of you high and mighty types are doing anything to make mother earth a better place? Those of you that are doing something, how many of you are doing it without a financial incentive? Farming today is much more enviromentaly friendly than anytime since Chemicals started being used. Don't confuse upland habitat with pratices that are providing cleaner water, less soil erosion, and better air quality. There so many good things going on in agriculture, yet most of you don't know it or see it, because it doesn't fit with your idea of what it should be. We have to feed the world and you should embrace that. The "captain's of industry" in this country have failed miserably. Food is the only thing made in America that is wanted by the world. We don't make anything else they want or need. Agriculture is the only bright spot in our economy.

Instead of bashing agriculture maybe you should embrace it. This a concept I envision. Through the use of stewardship of technology, the average corn yield goes up 25 bushels an acre. The price of corn drops because of a larger supply. Farmers make decent livings, programs like crp can compete again because it is no longer lucrative enough to farm every acre. The Farm program is eliminated as we know it. It is there for a saftey net only and as a conservation program. Face the facts that agriculture is never going back to the 1950's.
 
Wirehairs said:
Once again the Farmer/Agriculture bashing appears on this board. I am begining to think the name of this board should be changed to "ultimate farmer bashing". How many of you high and mighty types are doing anything to make mother earth a better place? Those of you that are doing something, how many of you are doing it without a financial incentive? Farming today is much more enviromentaly friendly than anytime since Chemicals started being used. Don't confuse upland habitat with pratices that are providing cleaner water, less soil erosion, and better air quality. There so many good things going on in agriculture, yet most of you don't know it or see it, because it doesn't fit with your idea of what it should be. We have to feed the world and you should embrace that. The "captain's of industry" in this country have failed miserably. Food is the only thing made in America that is wanted by the world. We don't make anything else they want or need. Agriculture is the only bright spot in our economy.

Instead of bashing agriculture maybe you should embrace it. This a concept I envision. Through the use of stewardship of technology, the average corn yield goes up 25 bushels an acre. The price of corn drops because of a larger supply. Farmers make decent livings, programs like crp can compete again because it is no longer lucrative enough to farm every acre. The Farm program is eliminated as we know it. It is there for a saftey net only and as a conservation program. Face the facts that agriculture is never going back to the 1950's.
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Just where in the great book of life is it written we have the obligation to feed the world? Let the world feed itself. The real news is with the help of Monsanto, John Deere, foreign aid, that greedily export our technology faster than a bushel of corn not to mention the determination of peoples around the world, the world is in fact well on it's way to feeding itself. They also are protecting their agriculture with import tariffs and export restrictions to keep their citizens fed and happy, not to mention currency exchange monkey business to ensure they come out ahead. This will lead to a catastrophic decline in commodities, a crash in farmland values, and hello 1950's, or maybe more like 1979, for farmers. We taught them well at Harvard business school. Meanwhile we can't continually pump water from the auquifers, ask more of the ground than it can give, borrowing for short term gain, against the, as yet, deniable future, without bankrupting the system. We as a society cannot leave farming to the whim of the individual, as romantic as it sounds, anymore than we can leave, ocean oil exploration, or mining, The cost is to high, another farmer made catastrophy like the dust bowl, with attendant costs both financially, emotionally, and healthwise. I will discount the wildlife entirely in this arguement since it has been previously established they have no voice when it comes to economics. When it happens, you can remember you heard it here first. not that it will give anybody any comfort.
 
Face the facts that agriculture is never going back to the 1950's.

This is true but does that mean that we must have crops planted up to the EDGE of the road way and every shelter belt dozed and chemical run off in our waterways. Somewhere between AG of the 50's and AG of today and tomorrow there should be a happy medium.

Yes I do conservation work with the help of Gov programs but I still take a big hit money wise over what I could get by letting the lease allow fence row to fence row farming, letting the old pasture thats never seen a plow (complete with old bison wallows) to be turned into crop land just to gain more money. Instead I like to go to the old pasture to listen to the birds and critters on a Sunday morn do their thing in a natural setting or to watch the deer and pheasants come and go from the CRP plantings

I know that most farmers can't do all of this--but I wish they could. I can and I will continue to do so as long as I live. :thumbsup:
 
SDJIM said:
Face the facts that agriculture is never going back to the 1950's.

This is true but does that mean that we must have crops planted up to the EDGE of the road way and every shelter belt dozed and chemical run off in our waterways. Somewhere between AG of the 50's and AG of today and tomorrow there should be a happy medium.

Yes I do conservation work with the help of Gov programs but I still take a big hit money wise over what I could get by letting the lease allow fence row to fence row farming, letting the old pasture thats never seen a plow (complete with old bison wallows) to be turned into crop land just to gain more money. Instead I like to go to the old pasture to listen to the birds and critters on a Sunday morn do their thing in a natural setting or to watch the deer and pheasants come and go from the CRP plantings

I know that most farmers can't do all of this--but I wish they could. I can and I will continue to do so as long as I live. :thumbsup:
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You happen to be a man of vision. It's a rare commodity. It's really rare if faced with financial ruin, or a hungry family. Somebody once said "principles are the luxury of the well fed". I'd agree. We have a system which encourages and rewards the greedy and short term profit seekers. It's always been that way. Big rich country ripe for the taking. Use it up. We build statues to the Users. We have to find ways to encourage sustainability, and conservation, or God forbid legislate conservation for our own good as a people. When we ruin this ground where do we go? The merciless nature of world trade will solve the inbalance in commodity pricing, simple ecomomics solving the drive to plant and farm every acre, hopefully before mother nature gives us a life lesson in abuse we can't recover from.
 
oldandnew said:
You happen to be a man of vision. It's a rare commodity. It's really rare if faced with financial ruin, or a hungry family. Somebody once said "principles are the luxury of the well fed". I'd agree. We have a system which encourages and rewards the greedy and short term profit seekers. It's always been that way. Big rich country ripe for the taking. Use it up. We build statues to the Users. We have to find ways to encourage sustainability, and conservation, or God forbid legislate conservation for our own good as a people. When we ruin this ground where do we go? The merciless nature of world trade will solve the inbalance in commodity pricing, simple ecomomics solving the drive to plant and farm every acre, hopefully before mother nature gives us a life lesson in abuse we can't recover from.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::10sign:
 
oldandnew said:
Just where in the great book of life is it written we have the obligation to feed the world? Let the world feed itself. The real news is with the help of Monsanto, John Deere, foreign aid, that greedily export our technology faster than a bushel of corn not to mention the determination of peoples around the world, the world is in fact well on it's way to feeding itself. They also are protecting their agriculture with import tariffs and export restrictions to keep their citizens fed and happy, not to mention currency exchange monkey business to ensure they come out ahead. This will lead to a catastrophic decline in commodities, a crash in farmland values, and hello 1950's, or maybe more like 1979, for farmers. We taught them well at Harvard business school. Meanwhile we can't continually pump water from the auquifers, ask more of the ground than it can give, borrowing for short term gain, against the, as yet, deniable future, without bankrupting the system. We as a society cannot leave farming to the whim of the individual, as romantic as it sounds, anymore than we can leave, ocean oil exploration, or mining, The cost is to high, another farmer made catastrophy like the dust bowl, with attendant costs both financially, emotionally, and healthwise. I will discount the wildlife entirely in this arguement since it has been previously established they have no voice when it comes to economics. When it happens, you can remember you heard it here first. not that it will give anybody any comfort.
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It has nothing to do with an obilgation to feed the world. It has everything to do with Agricultural commodites are the one thing produced in the USA that the world is willing to buy. The economy is in the dump and unemployment rate falling only because people are leaving the workforce not because they actually found a job. So it would make you happy to return to low grain production and high weed production. Eliminate ethanol and cut crop prduction in half. Commodity prices would still go through the roof because of such short suppy, which in turn would get even more ground farmed than is now. Also with going to the low input cost farming there wouldn't be a need to borrow money so I guess the agricultural bankers can join the unemployment lines as well or at a very minimum take a huge paycut. Don't forget all the other people in rural america that depends on the revenue generated from agriculture. The people that build grain and fertilizer facilities, the people who work on the assembly line for Case, Agco, and John Deere. The people custom applying fertilizers and chemicals, the truck drivers that are hauling the grain and ag supplies, the railroad workers that are transporting ag goods, the research scientists, the agricultural engineers. Let's not forget our rural school's, land value's go up property tax revenue goes up. Anyone know of a school that can't use more funds?

Yep I think it is a great idea to try and kill the one shining sector of a horrible economy. Brillant idea.

Old and New I have a question for you, How can you stomach borrowing money to people, who you think are destroying the earth? The money you borrow to them is allowing them to do it. Are you losing any sleep over it, when you are providing for your kids?
 
Wirehairs said:
It has nothing to do with an obilgation to feed the world. It has everything to do with Agricultural commodites are the one thing produced in the USA that the world is willing to buy. The economy is in the dump and unemployment rate falling only because people are leaving the workforce not because they actually found a job. So it would make you happy to return to low grain production and high weed production. Eliminate ethanol and cut crop prduction in half. Commodity prices would still go through the roof because of such short suppy, which in turn would get even more ground farmed than is now. Also with going to the low input cost farming there wouldn't be a need to borrow money so I guess the agricultural bankers can join the unemployment lines as well or at a very minimum take a huge paycut. Don't forget all the other people in rural america that depends on the revenue generated from agriculture. The people that build grain and fertilizer facilities, the people who work on the assembly line for Case, Agco, and John Deere. The people custom applying fertilizers and chemicals, the truck drivers that are hauling the grain and ag supplies, the railroad workers that are transporting ag goods, the research scientists, the agricultural engineers. Let's not forget our rural school's, land value's go up property tax revenue goes up. Anyone know of a school that can't use more funds?

Yep I think it is a great idea to try and kill the one shining sector of a horrible economy. Brillant idea.

Old and New I have a question for you, How can you stomach borrowing money to people, who you think are destroying the earth? The money you borrow to them is allowing them to do it. Are you losing any sleep over it, when you are providing for your kids?
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Everyone of my customers is keenly aware of my view point. It might surprise you to know that the average age is somewhere north of 60, and they agree with me! My guys are feeding as much 6.00 corn as they sell, and using ethanol stuffed up our pipes at a ridiculous price and vodoo ecomomics. You espouse a view which is beneficial to a grain only producer, chemical companies, seed patent holders, and machinery makers, and even that is cyclic and temporary. Since I'm a souless banker, it's only fair to ask which one of the above do you represent? I can't swear that not one of the loan dollars I've made didn't account for some form of habitat destruction, but I'm not aware of any, nor see any evidence of it, either in visits or financial statements. I don't loan on scrapers, graders, dozers, but most of my guys have at least a small dozer, in my experience they have done more good than bad. Rank sucessional growth is our problem here, cedars and maturing trees. I did literally buy a hedgerow once, through a permanent easement, which was slated for the dozer, and I'd do it again. My viewpoint is not anti-agriculture, it's pro-ag, I want to see these guys and their grandkids farming this ground 100 years from now, not converted to a sterile lab-like monoculture, with debt pushing them produce ever more, and cut corners to make ends meet, living a life of an indetured servant to the "company stores", John Deere, Monsanto, DeKalb, or others who profit by the current status quo, leaving crumbs to the producer who actually provides the crop. Don't believe it? Talk to a livestock producer. Ask a scientist about the wonders of distillers grains from ethanol production that have replaced corn in livestock rations and it's affect on the beef, pork, and chicken you eat. It's a house of cards.
 
Been following this thread and thought I'd give my 2 cents for what it's worth. A couple of farmers I know does no-till and had to pull out the mold board plow to turn over a couple of fields they had. The reason they had to do this is because it's clay ground and got hard as brick.When they plowed it the highest gear they could go in is 2nd because it was that hard. The one was using a 1175 case trractor and the other one used an 1855 oliver.Ihave nothing against no-till but some of the farmers that I know don't use their head and do it right.
 
Oldandnew my friend I can appriciate your romantic view of the way it used to be and wish they were. But asking to go back to those days is not going to happen. That is like telling Americans they need to cut there home size in half to conserve energy get rid of one car per family, sell the boat, eat less processed food ect.

I do not know what the crop rotation is like in your area but around me it is corn and beans and always will be. You will not convince farms to grow an alternative crop and make 200-300 less an acre for the sake of "biodiversity."

I can tell you what irritates Wirehairs, myself and other producers when they read post like we have seen.
-It lumps all producers together
-A lack of understand of why stuff is done.

The vast majority of tiling and ditching is done with the approval of the government at all levels. Sure some guys don't get permits, just like some hunters are slobs.

Don't blame the farmer who chops and bales his corn stalks to feed or bed his cattle, does not do no-till because problems with soil composition and nutrient tieup. Takes out a fence-line because it is no longer need and they are tired of barbwire getting ran through the combine. Mowing ditches to get hay for there stock cows and so they do not have to open drifted in roads every time it snows or blows. Tile a field so it dries out faster in the spring because they are tired of getting stuck and wasting chemical and seed on wet spots.

Hunters see things they do not understand and leap to conclusions just like everyone else does.
 
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