South Dakota prairie land in danger of losing hunter's paradise

fsentkilr said:
Oldandnew I'm done wasting my time responding to you. I have never recieved one dollar from equip. The WRP was already enrolled before I bought it, so I didn't benefit financially from it. The watersheds we built help water quality by filtering out sediments, and provide a place for thousands of waterfowl and they are full of fish, I have never recieved any money from equip, if you want to come help plant plums this spring you are more than welcome, but leave the attitude before you show up. I would guess I have let at least 5 dozen hunters hunt deer, waterfowl, and quail on our farm this year, can you say the same? Lastly I will say, I can take a couple of guys out tomorrow morning and shoot our limit of quail on my own farm, can you do the same?
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40 of work each week, 30 to 40 hours of volunteering each week. This has been my schedule this past year and for the coming year ahead.

That 30 to 40 hours a week is spent volunteering to raise $ for improving someone elses land, paying for this course and that course in order to become certified for this or that so I can help someone else with their land, countless hours to improve habitat in many difference ways on farmers/land owners land (that I can't hunt!), spending my own hard earned $ on fuel costs, beating my vehicles up, a justified wife screaming "you only see your daughter 10 min. a day" or, "our income is suffering because of your involvement in Pheasants Forever" and I could go on.

Can you say the same? Just because one is a so called "city slicker" dose not mean we aren't dirty up to our ears in habitat improvements on other folks' properties.

And by the way, who are you to imply that so called "city slickers" don't own land and have the ability to grant folks permission to hunt? Where the hell are you getting that idea from?
 
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Easy guys, this is getting a little heated. We all know we have issues that need to be addressed and some of you are doing your damnedest to do what you can. We all appreciate everything you are doing. I think we all see things slipping away and we all want to stick the blame on someone or some group. Face facts, we all need to do better but there are so many demands on our time and our money. Many of us are just in survival mode and can't do what we would like.

I think we have covered pretty much everything on this matter, maybe the mod could just lock it down and we can discuss more pleasant things, like great guns, great dogs and hunting stories.

Have a great day everybody. I have wild ducks out thawing and we are going to have a big duck dinner and enjoy some football playoff's. :cheers:
 
I agree it's time to bury the hatchet in something besides somebody else's head. The fact it got to this point is an execise in defining the problem. We have an instance where a group of enviornmentally concerned parties, some with ground, some who volunteer, some do what they can and hope for better times, fighting over commitment! Key is we all have more in common than we have disagreements. Proximity brings understanding, the old saw, walk a mile in another man's shoes, comes to mind. By now over the threads we know the problems, and obstacles to acheiving a sustainable agricultural model which will also preserve the outdoor heritage and the very lifestyle we are accustomed to. I propose a poll thread. We should include categories such as would we pay more for food in exchange for conservation oriented land reform? How many of us are willing to donate 40 hours of time per year, or a cash equivalent to actual hands in the ground, to affect change? How many landowners here are willing to make changes, accept the labor, materials, even cash outright to make a difference. I would do the poll but I have no expertise as to how to set one up here. Other or alternate headings could be used, maybe discuss it to determine the proper wording, I know from experience that wording has a great deal to do with the answer. I envision a poll which gives us a real statement of what we diehards, and I assume anyone here is a diehard, is willing to personally commit to. It has to be a reasonable commitment, Some here do much more, but we have to have a starting point. The outgrowth of this should be a seperate topic heading which organizes work groups by area, plans projects,direct materials and even direct financial aid or cost share paid by volunteers, discussed by us right here. We can then discuss our successes on the habitat forum, feel good about our association, and learn from and about each other. Somebody willing to help me set this up? We may well be in the 4th quarter of the game, down 20, with the opponent on our goal line. Me I want to go down fighting, with my hands dirty. I see this as more of a personal fight shared by individuals, there may be only 4 or 5 of us,but it's a start. I see this as seperate from, but working with pheasants forever, pheasants forever is great, but by necessity takes a bigger view, one we should embrace and support wholehaertedly. My idea is more geared toward the individual, some people aren't joiners, aren't really banquet goers, don't really enjoy the social aspects, yet are willing to roll up their sleeves and go to work if it means tangible results. Respond here or PM me with thoughts and suggestions. Maybe we can save ourselves yet.
 
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This agriculture theme and argument keeps coming up because a few do not seem (or pretend they don't) to understand the magnitude of what's coming as a result of our actions today. (not just in farming, but, slack and a lacking momentum on the part of hunters and other outdoors men in general)

The result of a decline in habitat and hunting opportunities will result in an obvious decline in hunter numbers. This will not be good for any of you, your county, or your children.

We know what the animal rights groups want to do to your farms. Without our (from sportsmen) help, you unfortunately will be on your own to defend yourselves against their radical ideals, actions, and what seems to be an endless amount of funds.

Listen to me! I've seen the vial, venomous, and threatening ways of these people as they've tried to block hunting opportunities on public lands:eek: If you have to deal with them up front and personal, I say GOOD LUCK!

As of now, animal rights groups have one hell of a power house combination between sportsmen and farmers to fend off, and despite their enormous budget and vigorous will to fight us, they have not gotten their way on all things and have in fact lost their asses on many issues.

Now, I ask this; who will take this battle up? In a time where we listen to our next generations scream out "We don't have a place to hunt" or "there's not enough game to make it worth my time to hunt" how will it be possible to keep our efforts alive?

This constant cry is becoming almost deafening to my ears. I'm reaching a point where I really can stand to hear it anymore. (from adults and youth alike)

We (sportsmen) are not only fighting for pheasants, other game, and habitat alone. We are fighting to preserve our (American!) heritage, traditions, and constitutional rights for our next generation.

We lose this generation (and believe me we are!!!) we stand to lose it all.

God help us help ourselves!
 
SDJIM said:
As an ex-city slicker who now has a say in what happens on about a thousand acres of farmland I sure see both sides of this debate.

I do what I can without hurting the bottom line to much and we don't charge anyone to hunt. This year we had several nice thank-yous and thats real nice. But in 7 years I've only had 2 people kick in a little help with the cost of doing all of this. The notable execption being the dozen or so young guys from Ellsworth AFB that came down last spring and helped with the clean-up of the old farmstead and did some fence work and planted some shrubs.

So just a thought that if you hunt somewhere for free you might ask if there is anything you can help with or at least offer a few bucks to "help with the habitat work", equipment,chemicals,seed,time or hired out custom work is expensive-so isn't it nice that you can show up opening day and hunt land that someone else has spent time,money and love on.:rolleyes:
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Great point Jim. I am blessed to have a 1200 acre cattle ranch about 15 mins from home to hunt. I estimate this ranch has about 12 coveys of 30-60 quail on a good year plus a great pond with bass, blue gill, and crappies to take my nephews fishing at. Though I haven't made it there this year to hunt (yet) I have spent countless hours mending fence, building pens, and even feeding the ranchers dogs while he went on vacation. Imo this is a small investment to make in return for having the privilege to come and go as I please on such a great piece of land.

But hey, I live 3 miles outside of the city limits so I guess I'm no "city slicker".:cheers:
 
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1pheas4 said:
This agriculture theme and argument keeps coming up because a few do not seem (or pretend they don't) to understand the magnitude of what's coming as a result of our actions today. (not just in farming, but, slack and a lacking momentum on the part of hunters and other outdoors men in general)

The result of a decline in habitat and hunting opportunities will result in an obvious decline in hunter numbers. This will not be good for any of you, your county, or your children.

We know what the animal rights groups want to do to your farms. Without our (from sportsmen) help, you unfortunately will be on your own to defend yourselves against their radical ideals, actions, and what seems to be an endless amount of funds.

Listen to me! I've seen the vial, venomous, and threatening ways of these people as they've tried to block hunting opportunities on public lands:eek: If you have to deal with them up front and personal, I say GOOD LUCK!

As of now, animal rights groups have one hell of a power house combination between sportsmen and farmers to fend off, and despite their enormous budget and vigorous will to fight us, they have not gotten their way on all things and have in fact lost their asses on many issues.

Now, I ask this; who will take this battle up? In a time where we listen to our next generations scream out "We don't have a place to hunt" or "there's not enough game to make it worth my time to hunt" how will it be possible to keep our efforts alive?

This constant cry is becoming almost deafening to my ears. I'm reaching a point where I really can stand to hear it anymore. (from adults and youth alike)

We (sportsmen) are not only fighting for pheasants, other game, and habitat alone. We are fighting to preserve our (American!) heritage, traditions, and constitutional rights for our next generation.

We lose this generation (and believe me we are!!!) we stand to lose it all.

God help us help ourselves!
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Great post.:cheers::10sign:
 
oldandnew said:
I see this as more of a personal fight shared by individuals, there may be only 4 or 5 of us,but it's a start. I see this as seperate from, but working with pheasants forever, pheasants forever is great, but by necessity takes a bigger view, one we should embrace and support wholehaertedly. My idea is more geared toward the individual, some people aren't joiners, aren't really banquet goers, don't really enjoy the social aspects, yet are willing to roll up their sleeves and go to work if it means tangible results. Respond here or PM me with thoughts and suggestions. Maybe we can save ourselves yet.
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O&N, I've often thought through this thing myself. But after much thought, the bottom line is Pheasants Forerver. I feel like we may be reinventing the wheel with anything else.

Nevertheless, let's talk.

I would like to share a few ideas with you. As you know from my post, time is a real issue right now but my heart is willing so I will do what I can.

I hope to have my new PF chapter crew on their own two feet by next year. This will allow me to spend more time on the next project (what ever it is we decide to do).

Remember, passion is an ass-kicker. With it we can make a difference even if it is 4 or 5 people to start.
 
Animal rights groups are a big threat. They got dove hunting stopped in Michigan with their TV smear tactics. The folks in the cities voted it down once it was on the ballot. They also tried to stop bear hunting but they lost that one. It was close though.

MG
 
Michigan Gunner said:
Animal rights groups are a big threat. They got dove hunting stopped in Michigan with their TV smear tactics. The folks in the cities voted it down once it was on the ballot. They also tried to stop bear hunting but they lost that one. It was close though.

MG
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I try to tell people. The more the common person gets priced out with the commercialization of the sport. The less votes there will be to keep hunting alive. Those that have been priced out and that have found other activities to replace hunting, won't vote to save those who helped drive them from the sport. It just falls on def ears....money will always win they think. Fools!
 
W
oldandnew said:
Pheasantkiller, Why is it always the same old mantra that none of us understand farming? I do own land, and I work with farmers every single day of the year. I don't try to tell you personally how to do anything, I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, because I have no idea of how you operate or what your goals are. You aren't asking me and seem not particularily open to discussion. I would also be surprised to learn you are defending any operation which do not allow for any conservation practices, that aren't mandated. My comment is directed at a predomination of what's going on. After all, a short drive through the nation will yield a great variety of enviornmental damage being done by modern ag, manufacturing plants, mining, cities by just existing. I presume that you would not approve, but I don't know. If your defensive and take this personally, than perhaps the issue is yours;) By the way I do have a war chest saved up to buy additional ground in the next crash. Last time I bought ground for 200.00 an acre that sold for 750.00 to $1000 a short time before to go with some inherited ground. Should have gone into debt and bought more. I farm some, crp some, it's not under stress, neither am I, it provides a decent return, provides for a variety of wildlife. I'm sure I could minimize the edges, enlarge the waterways, use more pesticides, control more weeds, and make more money, which seems to be your point. Interestingly enough it's my point too! I don't care enough about the dollars, to trade what I have, for the dollars I'd recieve. That seems to offend a lot of people.
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Well said O&N. I do not intend to tell anyone what to do with there ground. They should be honest enough to admit what their motives are be good stewards.
 
fsentkilr said:
Oldandnew I'm done wasting my time responding to you. I have never recieved one dollar from equip. The WRP was already enrolled before I bought it, so I didn't benefit financially from it. The watersheds we built help water quality by filtering out sediments, and provide a place for thousands of waterfowl and they are full of fish, I have never recieved any money from equip, if you want to come help plant plums this spring you are more than welcome, but leave the attitude before you show up. I would guess I have let at least 5 dozen hunters hunt deer, waterfowl, and quail on our farm this year, can you say the same? Lastly I will say, I can take a couple of guys out tomorrow morning and shoot our limit of quail on my own farm, can you do the same?
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I aree with much of what you say, but you keep using the word attitude and you have as much as anyone.
;)
 
I think we should all sit back, take a breath and relax a bit but remember what we're fighting about and who we really need to be fighting with, its certainly not each other. I commend those who have done habitat work, on both large and small scales. I've done a bit of my own on my 70 acres and I can attest that it can be a real ass kicker. But at the end of the day when the sun is setting and I'm heading back up to the barn, I can look back and see that I made a difference. In-fighting aint gonna solve the problem. As for fsentkiler, I commend you on the work you've done, and I can somewhat attest to the amount of work required to do these tasks. Even if you did get cost share money, all those acres of grass and shrubs sure didn't plant themselves. Someone had to be out there beating the brush and for that I thank you.:cheers:
 
Gheese, finally the last post. I was trying to see who gets reprimanded, but half the members and a mod would be banned,:D.
OK settle down, grab a beer and go enjoy life. Bickering at one another is not going to help. I see the little things here that people seem to miss. This comes in cycles right? There will be a fall out right? So history always repeats itself right? So Vast fields of upland hunting will return right? Weather the storm people, there will be light at the end of the tunnel. As soon as land value crashes, and it will. This will be golden opportunity for states to buy up land for public use.

And I see people here with good Ole fashion values that if you ask, help a little, and behave your self, they will let a guy hunt some.:thumbsup: Those are the things I have done my whole life, and I seem to see plenty of birds every year when others seem to see vast wastelands. I am also glad I do not live in a city, 10 miles out in fact. I might buy a Kansas lic and head down.;) Don't worry people, if it seems we are hitting rock bottom hunting, that means it has no where but up to go.
 
FCSpringer said:
Gheese, finally the last post. I was trying to see who gets reprimanded, but half the members and a mod would be banned,:D.
.
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As long as I get banned first that is fine with me.
 
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carptom1 said:
It wouldn't do any good. He would just come back under a different name like " Internet Socrates" or something like that.:p
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Actually I'm considering being a lurker. But if I do come back I will be sure to wait till next season and ask on my first post for exact directions to a sure fire honey hole for me and poor saintly and crippled grand daddy and his blind dog in my first post, then post in multiple states as well with the same message.:cheers:
 
Y'all do know that Dennis Anderson is a Big City columnist selling papers right?
He is an extremist and seeks out extremists that suit his cause for his columns.
Hits on small examples and magnifies, dramatizes, like any politician or columnist.
It works for them, look at the followers just on this site alone.

The "prairies" he refers to are private lands that have been farmed, during low commodity times are left idle or planted in to pastureland and hay land. Now during high commodity prices cropped again. A cycle that been going on since the homestead era.

Just the word "prairie" is all it takes to get peoples attention. Americas true "prairies" [those that have NEVER been tilled] are mostly in public lands. Land to hilly, rocky or to poor to farm. The homesteaders basically took up the "good" land leaving the "badlands" More land under plow during the homestead era then today.

Lots of information on the Homestead era, you folks should study up on it.
 
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