Shooting Pheasants

Substantial debate about the efficacy of high velocity loads…patterns become more erratic, evidently…Tom Roster did a lot of testing on this, as well as other ballistic issues. One thing for sure, hunters are attracted to hi velocity loads, which makes sense, we want lethality.
 
Michealdavis said:
Im shooting a 12 gauge #4 shot 3 inch shells with a modified choke-0.20 on top barrel and a impmod-0.25 on bottom barrel. I need some serious help with something because im shooting birds and they are getting hit but there running after getting shot.
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First off, you don't need 3" shells for pheasants. And as someone else posted, 3" many times will not pattern as well as a 1 1/4 oz. load in a 2 3/4" shell. Your choke configuration is good. Try some 2 3/4" shells with #5 or #6 shot. However, I don't think the big problem is your gun or shells, it's you. You are not squaring up the bird in the pattern and are hitting the birds with the fringe of the pattern.
 
westksbowhunter said:
3 inch shells typically don't pattern as well as 2 3/4. You need to pattern with a couple different loads to see what your gun likes. 6's always seem to pattern a little better than 5's. I would never shoot 4's at anything. I don't care how good you shoot, and I shoot excellent, your going to have runners. That's where your dog comes into play. I have had them run a 1/2 mile and my dogs recover them. I like to knock them dead, but about 1/3 or more will run and I figure if I can get them to the ground, my dogs will find them. I dropped one dead a few years ago, and stepped it off at 52 yds. I have shot several at that distance. Kent Fast Lead 6's out of my 12 gauge IC and Fiocchi Goldent pheasant 6's from the 20 gauge with a light modified but I prefer the Browning BXD's #5 from the 20 but you can't get them right now.
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That stuff is spendy!!
 
I use high quality 2 3/4” ammo in either a 16 ga, 20 ga or a 12 ga, usually no faster than 1300 fps. I start the season using #6 shot and migrate to #5 later in the season. I hunt over pointing dogs and a 40 yard first shot is a long shot for me. The pictures that 5 Stand posted illustrate a common mistake that hunters make. You eyes focus on the center of anything you look at. The center of a flying rooster with that tail is his butt and that’s where many of them get shot. Focus on the white ring around their neck and you will kill more birds.
 
Personally, my accuracy/kill rate skyrocketed when I went from my original Remington 870 to a Benelli Montrefelto. The 870 was the gun I could afford when I first started hunting. After I got a full time job and could afford it, I upgraded based on what I saw my hunting partners using and shooting more pheasants with. Not only was it a lot lighter, but the muzzle jump was considerably less too. It allowed me to keep my gun on a flatter plane when following an airborne bird. Since the gun was not as heavy, I didn't mind carrying it as much either. Additionally, when I started carrying my shotgun with two hands most of the time, I was also more ready.

I'm not bashing an 870 pump shotgun. It was a good starting gun that was in my price range at the time. But if you can afford a nicer shotgun that's more balanced with less muzzle jump, it might help you too.
 
5 stand said:
Shot placement is the key for me. Especially at 20 yards. I know we all know what we're supposed to do, but in the heat of the moment sometimes that doesn't happen. There's a fine line between those red circles and green circles. Green circles are dead in the air. Red circles produce lots of feathers, and possibly a runner. If you pheasant hunt enough you will have runners, I just try to keep it to a minimum. I hope you figure out the issue. This is just a thought that came to mind.
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Love the pics. This is why I always say get the eyes/gun to the birds head if you can see it. Merely looking at the whole bird results in the red circle hits.

Any crossing or quartering away shot exposes the head and side of the breast where the heart and lungs are openly exposed. The dead going away shot even if centered in the pattern exposes the least amount of area for a lethal shot. In order to cleanly kill a going away rooster at yardage you must drive multiple shot through the tail and back hoping it hits a vital. Larger shot can do this but doesn't always guarantee a kill. This is particularly why taking long dead going away shots are not worth losing a cripple.
 
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Here are a couple previous post of mine on 12-gauge pheasant loads that may be of interest to some. Inside of 40 yards, which is the max that most of us should be shooting birds, most any pheasant load will kill them IF you can put the pattern on their front end!

1st post.

Are you really getting any benefits from the more expensive “Premium” or “Super” pheasant loads on the market? Well, let’s see what the pattern board can tell us about some of these loads and how they perform in my gun and chokes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL GAME-SHOK HEAVY FIELD LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (224 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 173 (77%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 145 (65%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 109 (49%)

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL PREMIUM UPLAND HIGH-VELOCITY LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (216 pellets) @ 1400 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 152 (70%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 126 (58%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 84 (39%)

12 GA 2 3/4" WINCHESTER SUPER PHEASANT LOAD
1 3/8 oz #5 lead (234 pellets) @ 1300 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 186 (79%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 149 (64%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 113 (48%)

It’s obvious from the pattern numbers that the Game-Shok load shot tighter patterns (IC / +7%, Mod / +7%, and Full / +10%) than the Premium Upland high-velocity load with the chokes tested.

Now, the Winchester Super Pheasant 1 3/8-ounce load started out with 10 more pellets than the 1 ¼-ounce Game-Shok load; and it did put a few more pellets (IC / +13 pellets, Mod / +4 pellets, and Full / +4 pellets) in the patterns than the Game-Shok load. The question you have to ask yourself is… are those few extra pellets in the 30-, 40- and 50-yard patterns really providing any noticeable benefit to killin’ pheasants?

It’s clear to me that you could save some money and reduce recoil by shooting the relatively slow 1220 fps load and not really forgo any pheasant killin’ effectiveness. Heck, the slower Game -Shok load put 24 more pellets (a 29% increase) in the 50-yard pattern than the Premium Upland load and had only 4 fewer pellets than the heavier Winchester Super Pheasant load. Just because they are labeled “Premium” or “Super” loads, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are “better” at killin’ pheasants!

That’s my take, now you can be the judge!

2nd post

If I only had one 12-gauge lead load to use for pheasants, I would be shooting the old live pigeon load of 2 3/4-inch 1 1/4-ounce No. 5 lead at 1220 fps velocity.

Here are a few of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how that load performs in my gun/chokes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (UNIQUE)
1 1/4 oz #5 lead (210 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 145 (69%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 177 (84%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 174 (83%)
50 YARDS – IM / pattern 125 (60%)

If I need to use a nontoxic load on pheasant, I prefer a 12-gauge 2 3/4-inch 1 1/8-ounce of No. 2 steel at 1350-1400 fps. Google Tom Roster's research on nontoxic shot for pheasant study. https://www.nodakoutdoors.com/threads/steel-shot-for-pheasants.67889/

Here are a few of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how they perform in my gun and chokes!

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" REMINGTON SPORTSMAN HI-SPEED STEEL LOAD
1 1/8 oz #2 steel (139 pellets) @ 1375 fps
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 116 (83%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 129 (93%)
40 YARDS – IC / pattern 111 (80%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 114 (82%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 114 (82%)
50 YARDS – LF / pattern 100 (72%)
50 YARDS – F / pattern 106 (76%)

Hope this helps, good luck!
 
With respect to the ammo factor in anchoring birds, pattern is definitely a part of it. So is penetration.

From what I have seen, copper pellets seem to give better penetration. The feathers don’t ball up around them like feathers do around non-plated shot.

So that’s why I buy the more expensive loads. Penetration from plated shot.
 
Joe Hunter said:
Here are a couple previous post of mine on 12-gauge pheasant loads that may be of interest to some. Inside of 40 yards, which is the max that most of us should be shooting birds, most any pheasant load will kill them IF you can put the pattern on their front end!

1st post.

Are you really getting any benefits from the more expensive “Premium” or “Super” pheasant loads on the market? Well, let’s see what the pattern board can tell us about some of these loads and how they perform in my gun and chokes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL GAME-SHOK HEAVY FIELD LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (224 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 173 (77%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 145 (65%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 109 (49%)

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL PREMIUM UPLAND HIGH-VELOCITY LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (216 pellets) @ 1400 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 152 (70%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 126 (58%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 84 (39%)

12 GA 2 3/4" WINCHESTER SUPER PHEASANT LOAD
1 3/8 oz #5 lead (234 pellets) @ 1300 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 186 (79%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 149 (64%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 113 (48%)

It’s obvious from the pattern numbers that the Game-Shok load shot tighter patterns (IC / +7%, Mod / +7%, and Full / +10%) than the Premium Upland high-velocity load with the chokes tested.

Now, the Winchester Super Pheasant 1 3/8-ounce load started out with 10 more pellets than the 1 ¼-ounce Game-Shok load; and it did put a few more pellets (IC / +13 pellets, Mod / +4 pellets, and Full / +4 pellets) in the patterns than the Game-Shok load. The question you have to ask yourself is… are those few extra pellets in the 30-, 40- and 50-yard patterns really providing any noticeable benefit to killin’ pheasants?

It’s clear to me that you could save some money and reduce recoil by shooting the relatively slow 1220 fps load and not really forgo any pheasant killin’ effectiveness. Heck, the slower Game -Shok load put 24 more pellets (a 29% increase) in the 50-yard pattern than the Premium Upland load and had only 4 fewer pellets than the heavier Winchester Super Pheasant load. Just because they are labeled “Premium” or “Super” loads, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are “better” at killin’ pheasants!

That’s my take, now you can be the judge!

2nd post

If I only had one 12-gauge lead load to use for pheasants, I would be shooting the old live pigeon load of 2 3/4-inch 1 1/4-ounce No. 5 lead at 1220 fps velocity.

Here are a few of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how that load performs in my gun/chokes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (UNIQUE)
1 1/4 oz #5 lead (210 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 145 (69%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 177 (84%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 174 (83%)
50 YARDS – IM / pattern 125 (60%)

If I need to use a nontoxic load on pheasant, I prefer a 12-gauge 2 3/4-inch 1 1/8-ounce of No. 2 steel at 1350-1400 fps. Google Tom Roster's research on nontoxic shot for pheasant study. https://www.nodakoutdoors.com/threads/steel-shot-for-pheasants.67889/

Here are a few of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how they perform in my gun and chokes!

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" REMINGTON SPORTSMAN HI-SPEED STEEL LOAD
1 1/8 oz #2 steel (139 pellets) @ 1375 fps
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 116 (83%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 129 (93%)
40 YARDS – IC / pattern 111 (80%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 114 (82%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 114 (82%)
50 YARDS – LF / pattern 100 (72%)
50 YARDS – F / pattern 106 (76%)

Hope this helps, good luck!
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Those 30 dollar a box shells are only worth it on long shots in wind.
 
I guide some at a local game farm and most guys miss pheasants because they are behind them. They all want to say I crushed that bird, but then the dog chases it down and brings it back 50 yards or so from where they saw it fall. I show them the live bird as I take it from the dog and then explain to them about shot string and shooting in front of the bird. Usually if they listen they end up killing more birds and having a better time because the birds are falling instead of flying away. I agree with Benelli Banger that hardest shot for me is going away. I am under them every time!
 
Getting back to the technical aspect of shooting, I think I struggle with straight going away shots, at times, due to not wanting to blot out the bird. In an attempt to "float the bird" while he is flying straight away I believe I stop my barrel and shoot under him, as he is often rising more than it appears. I shoot a lot of clays and am familiar with all the standard methods of shooting. Crossing shots are way more natural for me and if the bird flushes and screams to the right or left my odds are good of a hit. When they flush straight away I think I tend to look at the whole bird more often as the white collar and dark head are often not visible. I look forward to making a positive adjustment to my shooting in this regard.
 
Bob Peters said:
Getting back to the technical aspect of shooting, I think I struggle with straight going away shots, at times, due to not wanting to blot out the bird. In an attempt to "float the bird" while he is flying straight away I believe I stop my barrel and shoot under him, as he is often rising more than it appears. I shoot a lot of clays and am familiar with all the standard methods of shooting. Crossing shots are way more natural for me and if the bird flushes and screams to the right or left my odds are good of a hit. When they flush straight away I think I tend to look at the whole bird more often as the white collar and dark head are often not visible. I look forward to making a positive adjustment to my shooting in this regard.
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Bob I just posted a new thread talking about those difficult shots! Let's see where others struggle.
 
Bob Peters said:
I agree with this 100% and it's something I really need to work on!
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If your gun patterns like a modern Browning, about 60% of your shot will be above the actual aim point allowing you to keep the entire bird visible above your barrel sight, and it will be in the middle of the pattern. That's the whole idea with a 60/40 patterning gun - keeping the entire bird visible above the bead.
 
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I may have mentioned this before (lol) but the first and foremost important step in hitting things with a shotgun is having a gun that shoots where you look. In other words, having a gun that fits you.

To quote Michael McIntosh, "My favorite description of a fitted gun is one that points where your eyes are looking when all you do is raise it to your cheek without moving your head. Making it point where you look is the fitter’s job; raising it to your cheek, to the same place time after time after time without moving your head, is your job. (http://www.fieldsportltd.com/customgunfitting/fit_for_a_fitting.pdf) "

There are professional gun fitters all over the US. Ask a few of the top shooters at the local trap/skeet range. They'll know who does it in your area. Or do an internet search. It may cost you a couple hundred bucks for their time but it makes a very big difference. In the long run, it'll save you money and frustration.

Once you have your numbers...LOP, Drop at Comb, Drop at Heel, Cast... you can spend pleasant hours perusing the various manufacturer websites looking for shotguns that have stock dimensions as close as possible to your requirements. Always fun searching for a new shotgun to buy and in this case it is fully justifiable. This is what I did and ended up with SKB Sporting Clays guns that are stocked very close to my needs.

Or if you have or buy a shotgun with an adjustable stock (shims) getting the gun to fit you is pretty easy and minimal/no cost after the fitting. Which is how I came to own my Benelli M2 20ga; great lightweight shotgun that holds more than my usual two rounds.

If you have a non-adjustable stock, it will cost more to either bend or build a new stock.

Pattern, penetration...all that is great. but to paraphrase Johnny Cochran of O J Simpson fame, " If your gun don't fit, it's harder to get a hit".
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
If you could even find them ,those 30 dollar shells would be 40 this year. I do like those super pheasants though ,I bought 3 boxes a few years ago, thet put the hammer to them
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I bought a case of Fiocchi Golden Pheasant for $189 a case recently. Kent Fast Lead I bought for $18.99 a box 16 gauge last week.
 
I shoot field trials, and train every week 2 to 3 times a week on live birds. If we shot birds shorter than 40 yards in a field trial, we would be kicked off the gun team. I shoot the same way when we go hunting. If your crippling birds at 40, you simply have to change your style, loads, chokes, lead, something. Pattern your gun at 40 to 50 yards. Do it with different chokes, shells etc. I like the tighter chokes, and federal premiums. I know what some "claim" scientifically about speed bla bla bla. I dont care. It's "my" gun, my load. And they kill birds dead. And we consistently kill birds at much further range then 40 yards. You do need ammo with some oomph to it. Chokes and ammo are the first to start with and patterning. Beyond that it is your style, lead etc. Aiming in front of where the corn goes in, and not out per say. Taking your time on a shot, not fling rushing. You have plenty of time to take one good shot. Rushing the shot before that comfort zone is a recipe for allot of holes in the sky. Good luck
 
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