Possible Lead shot Ban

VZWman said:
I don't see this being as big of of deal. Isn't the ditch public land anyways? We have to use non tox on public land around my hometown, I don't see why the ditch should be any different? I don't think there is enough lead in the shot to do much, but it does build up.
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Is the ditch public land? I'm no lawyer, nor do I even play one on TV, but my understanding of a right of way is that it is still owned by the original property owner. They give the state/county/utility rights to use the property for certain limited purposes, they don't own it. States may differ, I don't know. I have been lead to believe the road between my property and my neighbors would revert back to us if the township (it's not a state road) decided they no longer needed it or they abandoned it. I know there are issues about this in converting railroad right of ways to rails to trails.
If the road is public property, is the power line easement public property? or buried gas line easement?
I have a power line cutting right through the middle of my farm and gas and phone lines buried along two sides of my property. That does not give anyone permission to hunt or even walk along those areas.
Maybe SD is different.
 
Wirehairs, spoken plainly and purposefully, as good and sound an arguement as can be leveled. I would second the opinion. Speculation in real estate, commodities, oil, coffee, even chocolate, have destroyed any semblence of free and honest trade. Makes millionaires of people who neither reap nor sew. forces us into wild cycles of boom, bust, and bailout.:10sign:
 
Wirehairs said:
We have no shortage of crude right now, but because people can buy it on paper, the price has went wild and is screwing us all. Same thing with crops, to many people own paper drive the price up beyond what it is really worth.
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Speculation does help drive the market, both in good and bad directions. We hate it when they take profits and drive the price down but we love it when we get to haul $7 corn to town. Could have hauled more today but those pesky 7 ton axel limits really hamper things.
 
"Even with the restrictions, we're still losing a lot of waterfowl every year to lead," he said. "And a lot of raptors die, too, when they end up feeding on carcasses with lead in them."

I would sure like to see the proof of this. I think it is so much bull. It's just another shot a hunters and hunting. This guy doesn't like road hunting and this is a way to try to make it harder on folks that don't own or have access to land.

Lock and Load! :D
 
For what it is worth I called the GFP today and expressed my opinion, they are taking opinions to present at the meeting. The number is 605-773-3387.
 
haymaker said:
For what it is worth I called the GFP today and expressed my opinion, they are taking opinions to present at the meeting. The number is 605-773-3387.
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Way to go. Maybe that's what we should all be doing instead of bloviating on the Internet.
 
Pretty naive to think lead poisoning does not still occur in birds. Raptors are highly susceptible because they feed often on dead animals. Just do a little research and the proof is endless.

Actually have hunted Marty V.’s ground near Martin several times. Seemed like a nice guy to me. I could easily see how he would get tired of the sky busting waterfowl shooters that are right next to his place. It is also legal to retrieve downed small game onto private land as long as you are unarmed. It would actually be illegal not to retrieve that bird. Now big game is another story.


http://www.friendsofblackwater.org/wordpress/eagle08/2008/04/13/raptors-and-lead-poisoning/
http://www.peregrinefund.org/lead_conference/PDF/0212 Stephens.pdf
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/fact_sheets/pdfs/lead_poisoning_wild_birds_2009.pdf
 
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jpallen said:
Pretty naive to think lead poisoning does not still occur in birds. Raptors are highly susceptible because they feed often on dead animals. Just do a little research and the proof is endless.

Actually have hunted Marty V.’s ground near Martin several times. Seemed like a nice guy to me. I could easily see how he would get tired of the sky busting waterfowl shooters that are right next to his place. It is also legal to retrieve downed small game onto private land as long as you are unarmed. It would actually be illegal not retrieve that bird. Now big game is another story.


http://www.friendsofblackwater.org/wordpress/eagle08/2008/04/13/raptors-and-lead-poisoning/
http://www.peregrinefund.org/lead_conference/PDF/0212 Stephens.pdf
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/fact_sheets/pdfs/lead_poisoning_wild_birds_2009.pdf
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You fella's keep this up, and you are going to wake the pigs up, and they can get mean. I was told that Tony Lief, GF&P derector, also hunts the property, and I bet Jeff Olson will be there this fall. I know about the road hunting by his place. I was down there for three days of the 8 day January season. A few geese shot at on saturday, opening day, not a box of shells fired within 1/4 mile of the house, the whole season. About the sky bust comment, I would rather skybust geese, than shoot pheasants in a glorified chicken coop, at least take the 410 next time.
 
Wirehairs said:
Let's clarify the road ditch ownership. The public does not own the road ditch. The land owner owns to the center of the road and pays property tax to the center of the road. The ditch is public right away. Which gives access to the ditch. The landowner is responsible for weed control, mowing according to township ordinance, and keeping the trees from growing up in the ditch.

As far as changing agriculture, I think what would be good for all of us is if people who didn't physical own or buy and use commodities couldn't trade them on paper. Think if we actually used supply and demand for Crude Oil for example. We have no shortage of crude right now, but because people can buy it on paper, the price has went wild and is screwing us all. Same thing with crops, to many people own paper drive the price up beyond what it is really worth. Which in turns drives up the price of land, fertilizer, equipment, ect. The world needs alot of food, but when the traders drive the price up to far it isn't good for anyone long term, because a lot of people get caught on the wrong end when the traders pull out, and the price comes crashing down. The traders pull out because the fake demand they create actually causes real user to quit and now there is a real lack of demand and the prices spiral down.
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That's in South Dakota but its different in North Dakota where there is no public access to the ditch! what a different a state makes. Which one do you feel is right? In ND The public pays for the installation and maintenance of the road but does not get a say in the right of away use.
 
Wow! No lead to Ag discussion!
I'm an Alaskan so knowledge is limited to the few farmers/ranchers I know in Montana. Those people love their land, life style, and work hard to produce good beef as well as raise crops to feed the beef (deer, antelope, Richardson ground squirrels, etc.). I know that none of these families would intentionally do something to harm their property.

We rely on our farmers/ranchers to provide us, Americans, with quality foods. The family owned farm/ranch from what I am told versus the BIG business corporate farm/ranch more environmentally conscious and more attune to the local needs and community.
To attack the Ag business because of one man's feelings on how he would like to see things done is like PETA and Friends of the Earth etc. attacking hunters because of aphrodisiac poachers killing endangered species for products to get your penis stiff. I do believe this thread started off well but degenerated into one side against the other. We are all hunters here and we ought to be concerned with keeping what we have instead of pointing our loaded finger at one another.

As a side note, I switched to steel completely when I head to the Lower 48 for bird season as I buy the water fowl stamps etc. along with my small game license. That way if I am hunting wet lands area and ducks come up ducks go down. (BTW I shoot older guns that were Belgium grade steel and I had them choked about 20 years ago for water fowl in Alaska and they still work just fine. My thinking is if you don't use it why keep it! I'd rather shoot my old shotguns than have them waste away in a safe)
I've never hunted SD but will try either this coming season or the next.
RedNose.
 
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wesslpointer said:
That's in South Dakota but its different in North Dakota where there is no public access to the ditch! what a different a state makes. Which one do you feel is right? In ND The public pays for the installation and maintenance of the road but does not get a say in the right of away use.
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Are you saying that the landowners that live in the township don't contribute to the building and maintenance of the roads? Here the local taxpayers, the landowners in the township probably pay 80% or more of the costs.
 
haymaker said:
Are you saying that the landowners that live in the township don't contribute to the building and maintenance of the roads? Here the local taxpayers, the landowners in the township probably pay 80% or more of the costs.
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Does your township have a town did it get state money to originally build road. I assume a township is like a "road district" where every one in it is taxed. And receives gas tax money from the state. To me thats public I can drive on your road and you mine! What does it mater can I only drive on your road 20% of the time.? :)
 
I like Kansas law on road hunting. To hunt the road you need the permission of landowners on both sides. Each side owns to the middle of the road and they used to only make you have the side you were hunting. They changed it to having permission from both sides because it was to easy to hunt on the side you didn't have permission. On the landowner taking care of the land, I have 800 acres of filter strips and field borders enrolled in CRP. I don't have one stream that isn't bordered on both sides by grass filters. We have been notill for 15 years. I plant food plots and leave crop along the edges of our fields for winter food sources. We have build waterholes and wetlands in sloughs as well as several Watershed lakes. So I take it personally when some city dweller who has no contact with the land whatsover tells me I don't take care of mine. I will gurarantee you that many many times over the amout of chemical and fertilizer are spread on your yards and gold courses than our fields. The runoff runs right on to the concrete and straight down the creek. I would like to see a water analysis of water coming down a stream coming from a municipality compared to the water running down a rural stream. I bet it would be 100 times more polluted.
 
fsentkilr said:
I like Kansas law on road hunting. To hunt the road you need the permission of landowners on both sides. Each side owns to the middle of the road and they used to only make you have the side you were hunting. They changed it to having permission from both sides because it was to easy to hunt on the side you didn't have permission. On the landowner taking care of the land, I have 800 acres of filter strips and field borders enrolled in CRP. I don't have one stream that isn't bordered on both sides by grass filters. We have been notill for 15 years. I plant food plots and leave crop along the edges of our fields for winter food sources. We have build waterholes and wetlands in sloughs as well as several Watershed lakes. So I take it personally when some city dweller who has no contact with the land whatsover tells me I don't take care of mine. I will gurarantee you that many many times over the amout of chemical and fertilizer are spread on your yards and gold courses than our fields. The runoff runs right on to the concrete and straight down the creek. I would like to see a water analysis of water coming down a stream coming from a municipality compared to the water running down a rural stream. I bet it would be 100 times more polluted.
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Hunting kansas sounds like fun, how many non residence do you have comming to your state.
 
fsentkilr said:
I like Kansas law on road hunting. To hunt the road you need the permission of landowners on both sides. Each side owns to the middle of the road and they used to only make you have the side you were hunting. They changed it to having permission from both sides because it was to easy to hunt on the side you didn't have permission. On the landowner taking care of the land, I have 800 acres of filter strips and field borders enrolled in CRP. I don't have one stream that isn't bordered on both sides by grass filters. We have been notill for 15 years. I plant food plots and leave crop along the edges of our fields for winter food sources. We have build waterholes and wetlands in sloughs as well as several Watershed lakes. So I take it personally when some city dweller who has no contact with the land whatsover tells me I don't take care of mine. I will gurarantee you that many many times over the amout of chemical and fertilizer are spread on your yards and gold courses than our fields. The runoff runs right on to the concrete and straight down the creek. I would like to see a water analysis of water coming down a stream coming from a municipality compared to the water running down a rural stream. I bet it would be 100 times more polluted.
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I applaud you sir, you are a steward of your land, and I thank-you for that. Obviously states like SD and Kansas have very good farm practices as evident by their healthy ecosystems, and I don't just meen healthy game populations but an overall healthy biota. I guess my feelings come from watching my piece of the worlds ecosystem become ill. Our rivers are being pumped dry as well as our aquifiers. There are no filter strips anywhere to ensure our water quality, there is nothing in place to stop soil erosion etc... I don't blame the farmers for this, I blame poor farm practices pushed by the ag extension office. Sorry if I offended you, but I don't think I ever singled anybody out, I was just lamenting what I see everyday, as a rural type not a city dweller.
 
haymaker said:
Are you saying that the landowners that live in the township don't contribute to the building and maintenance of the roads? Here the local taxpayers, the landowners in the township probably pay 80% or more of the costs.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Its a state right of way. And its up to the state to decide if God for bid you leave a little cover in that ditch so as a Pheasant might hatch. Next thing you know hunters well come an fell up your little towns and spend money in them and may be some town folk may make a little money to! And there goes your cheep fall labor. Yep but of course you don't mind using the other public services that others pay for. There your roads! Dam I'm starting to sound like a commie when I'm just trying to get more public hunting!:confused:
 
wesslpointer said:
Does your township have a town did it get state money to originally build road. I assume a township is like a "road district" where every one in it is taxed. And receives gas tax money from the state. To me thats public I can drive on your road and you mine! What does it mater can I only drive on your road 20% of the time.? :)
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A township is a six mile by six mile piece of land that taxes the landowners to pay for maintanance of the roads. Yes there is some gas tax revenue, and a little other revenue form other sources, including FEMA last spring when we flooded. But the majority is paid for by the local real estate taxes. Yes you can drive on the road and the state of south dakota has given you permission to hunt the ditches. But when you say the public has built the roads, most of the funding comes from the local land taxes.
 
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