Party hunting pheasants in Iowa?

Chestle said:
Any quail hen shot doesn’t nest at all. Yet quail have not been eliminated.

Considering ALL of the other winged game, waterfowl and upland, hens are fair game. With a lot of duck species it’s very easy to differentiate hens from drakes; hens are still fair game.

The “fact” that pheasant hens nest only once appears to be incorrect according to Pheasants Forever:

Facts Surrounding the Magic of Nesting Season

Springtime throughout pheasant country brings with it one of the great disappearing acts of the world and the most critical period of the year for ringnecks – nesting season for hen pheasants.
pheasantsforever.org pheasantsforever.org

“Although subsequent nesting attempts attributed to nest predation or abandonment produce fewer eggs, pheasants are very capable of hatching chicks into the waning months of summer. Additionally, chicks hatched late in the season have a lower chance at survival, so more successful early nesting attempts means more birds recruited into the fall population.”

Which sounds a lot like quail.

animaldiversity.org

Colinus virginianus (northern bobwhite)

animaldiversity.org animaldiversity.org

Animal Diversity Web (ADW) is an online database of animal natural history, distribution, classification, and conservation biology at the University of Michigan

“Bobwhites mate in their first year of life and rear one brood a year. Nests destroyed before hatching will be rebuilt while broods lost after hatching are usually not replaced.”

Again, I doubt adding an optional hen to a bag limit would make much difference in overall population. For example 3 cocks or 2 cocks and 1 hen.

The lack of habitat exacerbated by the run of poor weather during the nesting/rearing period is the true problem. IMO.
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"Any quail hen shot doesn't nest at all. Yet quail have not been eliminated"

I understand your point here. One thing I'd be curious on (no way to get data on) is how many MORE quail there would be if hens couldn't be shot? I'm not sure, given that they are monogamous vs. polygamous (pheasants).

It is my personal opinion that pheasants would not be eliminated but that we would see the populations fall by 70-80% if you could shoot hens. Based on that alone, there would be more roosters to shoot each year than there would be pheasants TOTAL if hunting hens was allowed.

IF my opinion is true (very well could be wrong), then I would much rather never shoot a hen, and have a substantially higher population to hunt than have a smaller population that I could shoot either sex. If that makes sense?

I agree though that it definitely comes down to habitat. Weather is always variable, but that is cyclical. Bird numbers will ebb and flow over the short term with weather. Regardless of the weather, there will always be birds around to repopulate if there is adequate habitat. There is a reason long-term pheasant population trends follow so closely with CRP enrollment.
 
cyclonenation10 said:
"Any quail hen shot doesn't nest at all. Yet quail have not been eliminated"

I understand your point here. One thing I'd be curious on (no way to get data on) is how many MORE quail there would be if hens couldn't be shot? I'm not sure, given that they are monogamous vs. polygamous (pheasants).

It is my personal opinion that pheasants would not be eliminated but that we would see the populations fall by 70-80% if you could shoot hens. Based on that alone, there would be more roosters to shoot each year than there would be pheasants TOTAL if hunting hens was allowed.

IF my opinion is true (very well could be wrong), then I would much rather never shoot a hen, and have a substantially higher population to hunt than have a smaller population that I could shoot either sex. If that makes sense?

I agree though that it definitely comes down to habitat. Weather is always variable, but that is cyclical. Bird numbers will ebb and flow over the short term with weather. Regardless of the weather, there will always be birds around to repopulate if there is adequate habitat. There is a reason long-term pheasant population trends follow so closely with CRP enrollment.
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First, just so no one gets their shorts in a knot, I am NOT promoting the legalization of shooting of a hen pheasant as part of the daily bag limit. I AM saying that I doubt it would make any difference in the overall pheasant population if they made a hen an option in the total bag limit, IE: 2 cocks, 1 hen = an SD limit.

To review a few key points:

1. Hens (females) are legal game in every other species of upland game bird (quail, chuckar, grouse, etc.) and wildfowl (ducks, geese, etc.) So please tell me what makes hen pheasant completely different than all of the other hens taken legally by hunters.

2. The "fact" that pheasants nest only once is not a fact at all; it's simply incorrect. Pheasant hens do in fact re-nest, some multiple times, if chicks do not result from the first nesting.

3. Quail hens do re-nest just like pheasant hens. Additionally, occasionally/rarely a quail hen will bring off two broods in a nesting season.

4. Pheasants Forever has been quoted in this thread saying that "The record is ambiguous- controlled hen seasons in Montana, Idaho, California, Iowa and Nebraska apparently did not limit reproduction, but data from Wisconsin, South Dakota and Minnesota indicate the opposite." So all the "feels" in this thread about the effect of shooting or not shooting hen pheasants are just that: feelings, opinions, whatever. The data is AMBIGUOUS, open to more than one interpretation.

Now then, how many more quail or pheasant would there be if hens were never shot? Pretty simple, really. As many as the habitat could support.

To make it plain, how many young pheasant would you expect to see survive till Fall if you put 1 million hen pheasant along with 100k cockbirds in the middle of the Sahara desert in time for spring breeding season? None, right? No dew for the chicks, too hot, NO HABITAT.

Further, check any site you like. Pheasants Forever, Quail Unlimited, Audubon Society, Ducks Unlimited, Sierra Club...any group interested in the conservation and propagation of birds, ruminants, wildlife. What do they say the biggest problem is? HABITAT. Second problem? WEATHER.

Six weeks of unusually hot weather and no dew at all after the hatch guarantees a poor chick survival rate and a poor pheasant population, no matter how good the habitat is.

So what is truly limiting our pheasant population? HABITAT AND WEATHER.

"2007
CRP in South Dakota peaks at just over 1.5 million acres and preseason pheasant population hits a modern-day high of nearly 12 million birds."

South Dakota Celebrates A Century of Pheasant Hunting

A look back at nearly 100 years of pheasant hunting tradition
pheasantsforever.org pheasantsforever.org

When you have the habitat and the good weather, pheasant populations boom. The number of hens is not the limiting factor.
 
McFarmer said:
Used to be you had 100 points when shooting mallards. A hen was 90 points.
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Yep. Ducks were having a tough time then (habitat & weather of course) and hens were high points.

Which is an idea. We all know hens get shot every year and almost all of them unintentionally. Rather than ticket/prosecute, they could make 1 hen the limit. Shoot a hen....go home, you're done for the day. Instead of hiding/wasting his mistake in the weeds for fear of punishment, a shooter could claim his mistake and go home. It didn't exterminate mallards. :)
5 stand said:
How many points was a hen pintail, teal, or gadwall?
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You knew this, of course, which makes the point.

IIRC, Hen Mallards, black ducks, wood ducks, redheads, canvasbacks, and hooded mergansers (fish ducks!) were 90 points each Drake mallards, hen pintails and ringnecks were 20 points each. All other species and sexes of ducks were 10 points each.

So in SD a cockbird would be 33 1/3 points, a hen 100? :)
 
I don't think we should compare migratory birds with non migratory birds.
Apples and oranges.
Upland------waterfowl.
 
How long does a pintail, teal, or gadwall hen live?
 
Oldest Mallard is 27 years 7 months.
 
My point is 5 to the 27th power only makes a difference in Mallard hens. It doesn't make a difference in pintails, gadwall or teal?
 
Maybe? mallards are the most populous duck. But I think it has more to do with carrying capacity or possibly suitable habitat
 
DUCKS: Daily limit 6; no more than 4 mallards (2 female),

These nuts in Iowa are still trying to protect the hen mallards, they must still believe they are the ones laying the eggs, which hatch and become more ducks. Wouldn't it be a little tougher to sex these other ducks on the fly? If it was easier, guessing they might try protecting the hens also.

Ducks are ducks, I know little more about them.

It is hard for me to believe, we will have a bigger pheasant population when you kill some of the females. Where I am, I want all the pheasants the habitat can sustain, when there are too many for the habitat to maintain, they will spill out into surround habitat. How many places have you ever been in that you thought..."this place couldn't handle another pheasant"? Find that place and then harvest you some hens.

I am waiting for someone to throw out the phenomena of; when a hen dies, all the remaining hens miraculously increase their nesting and laying capabilities, offsetting this loss. This is what could get me onboard with the fewer hens equals more birds theory. It is getting silly now.
 
Back to the thread topic. I will never shoot 60 roosters in a season again here in Iowa, without party hunting. I don't need to shoot that many anyway. I also believe my hunting partners will enjoy hunting with me more also. My best hunting buddy has limited twice now that I know I shouldn't be shooting birds on his limit (he is somewhat new at this). I still can't believe I didn't know party hunting pheasants was not legal here. Always learning something new!
 
westksbowhunter said:
Here read through this. I had to search it to find the exact numbers but 178 birds in 2 days.

Pheasant Slaughter near Liberal

Stopped by a local farmer to get permission to hunt some of his circle corners, on Friday afternoon. I had hunted his corners last Dec. He said stick around and go with his group. He put on a big two day feed that was great for the group of 50+. Not having a place to hunt I went along. It was an...
forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com
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Thumbs down.More than 4 people. Thumbs down.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Here read through this. I had to search it to find the exact numbers but 178 birds in 2 days.

Pheasant Slaughter near Liberal

Stopped by a local farmer to get permission to hunt some of his circle corners, on Friday afternoon. I had hunted his corners last Dec. He said stick around and go with his group. He put on a big two day feed that was great for the group of 50+. Not having a place to hunt I went along. It was an...
forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com
Click to expand...
I read through that whole thread and the thing I found funny was there was four of the posters that got themselves banned from the site…. Better yet two of them said they were going to come up to my house and kick my ass😀😀…. That was when I was a little younger and less mature 👌
 
carptom1 said:
I read through that whole thread and the thing I found funny was there was four of the posters that got themselves banned from the site…. Better yet two of them said they were going to come up to my house and kick my ass😀😀…. That was when I was a little younger and less mature 👌
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Carp somebody probably should of back then🤣
I remember when we use to pull that biker dudes chain in sd , man you use to get him worked up.
Sometimes I wonder if he mellowed out moved to Montana and still listens to buffet. Probably hunts with his cousin now.
 
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remy3424 said:
Wouldn't it be a little tougher to sex these other ducks on the fly? If it was easier, guessing they might try protecting the hens also.
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Definitely is not as easy. Although wood ducks are a primary target for me up here in the first half of the season and they are VERY easy to tell the difference, maybe more so even than a mallard. I don't have much experience hunting a lot of species of ducks so I can't personally comment on pintails, gadwalls, black ducks, etc. 95% of the ducks I see and hunt are mallards, wood ducks, or teal.

Minnesota just opened up an early teal season this past fall on Labor Day weekend and it sounds as if there was a lot of mistaken identity. And those were only the hunters that were caught. Its almost impossible to tell the difference between a teal and a wood duck in the early morning light and apparently a lot of hunters just shot without identification.
 
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