Meaningful debate

SetterNut

SetterNut

New member
How about another dog/pheasant topic.
What way do you think is the most effective way for a dog to hunt pheasants.

Me being a pointing dog guy may have different likes an options than some of the flushing guys, but here goes.

First off the pheasants need to be pointed. Birds that are not pointed are not shot by me.

Now the good debate point. How do you like to see your dog handle runners?

For me, I want the dog to point on first scent and not move until I relocate the dog. Then I don't want the dog following foot scent. I like to see them swing out down wind looking for body scent. I find that this method is very effective pinning runners with fewer wild flushed.
 
SetterNut said:
For me, I want the dog to point on first scent and not move until I relocate the dog. Then I don't want the dog following foot scent. I like to see them swing out down wind looking for body scent. I find that this method is very effective pinning runners with fewer wild flushed.
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Following foot scent may be a breed thing. Continental breeds (Shorthairs, Wires, Britts etc..) naturally will be more of a tracker thus using what comes natural to them, ala foot scent. Setters and Pointers, at least the ones I've seen tend to run with their heads up.

Personally for me and I have a GSP, is I would rather they relocate on their own. My thinking is IF and this is a big IF, the dog is steady(been trained) coupled with experience, the dog will know when to stay put and when to keep moving. Give a sneaky runner too much time and he will pull a Houdini on you.

As far as the dog swinging out down wind and pinning the bird, I'm not sure that is something you can really train?? rather it is something an experienced dog has taught itself to do. If you have one that does, you've got one good Pheasant dog.
 
birdshooter said:
Following foot scent may be a breed thing. Continental breeds (Shorthairs, Wires, Britts etc..) naturally will be more of a tracker thus using what comes natural to them, ala foot scent. Setters and Pointers, at least the ones I've seen tend to run with their heads up.

Personally for me and I have a GSP, is I would rather they relocate on their own. My thinking is IF and this is a big IF, the dog is steady(been trained) coupled with experience, the dog will know when to stay put and when to keep moving. Give a sneaky runner too much time and he will pull a Houdini on you.

As far as the dog swinging out down wind and pinning the bird, I'm not sure that is something you can really train?? rather it is something an experienced dog has taught itself to do. If you have one that does, you've got one good Pheasant dog.
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I pretty much agree with everything you said. My experience is that the continental breeds tend to track. In heavy cover tracking is less risky than in something short like wheat stubble.

You are correct about the swinning out down wind, the dogs figure that out on their own. It just started to happen and I kept my mouth shut, and let them learn what works for them. That is why I don't shoot birds that are not pointed, especially when they are young.
 
Can a Pointing Lab guy answer?

I agree with both of you, I will not shoot a flushed or bumped bird period.
I like them to relocate on there own, but that is alot of experience.
I dont like them with there nose down. But sometimes on a running rooster, especially if the dog is working with the wind on his back he may not have a choice.
Jake will relocate multiple times on a Rooster, but if he is not pointing when it flys, it keeps flying....:)

And some of my flushing dogs? Im a shootin the bird.......
 
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Wow. You guys are in a whole other league. Don't bring your dogs out chasing wild birds with me and my lab.:eek: You wouldn't be happy with us. lol

For me, I'd have a difficult time letting a nice rooster flush and not shoot for my dogs sake. You boys have some serious self control! I'm impressed.:)

I suppose it's all different for me. Dogs are secondary. Pheasants are first. I own the dog because of pheasants. I don't hunt pheasants because of the dogs. Though I do enjoy watching dogs work.:thumbsup:
 
Seriously though, I just start them into the wind and whatever happens, happens. I try to give as little restriction and input as possible. Just try to keep them on the property we are allowed to hunt and occasionally direct them to water if they appear to be getting hot. That's about it... Otherwise they can use their nose, brain, and instincts to the best of their ability.

I think it's a pretty effective way to go, but I guess I don't care too much if it isn't. I enjoy watching the dogs compete against the roosters. I think a lot of guys think that they, personally, are matching wits against the cunning roosters. I would rather let the dogs and birds face off, and just tag along for the show. It's a pretty good show sometimes.:thumbsup: It's a dog, they make both good and bad decisions, but it's all part of the show.:cheers:
 
All of our hunting pheasants is in the rough, along the riverbanks...the quartering for the most part would have a pointer man screaming and a setter man pull his hair out but for the French Brittanys it is ideal...I know I will never get a classic retrieve out of them on account of the rough but the bird does get to the oven and I guess that is all that counts and of course
the fact that the dog has been doing what he was made for.

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I really do think that prey drive has a lot to do with the level of grounding of birds and of course the dog's age...they get to know how hard they can push the birds...
 
1pheas4 said:
Wow. You guys are in a whole other league. Don't bring your dogs out chasing wild birds with me and my lab.:eek: You wouldn't be happy with us. lol

For me, I'd have a difficult time letting a nice rooster flush and not shoot for my dogs sake. You boys have some serious self control! I'm impressed.:)

I suppose it's all different for me. Dogs are secondary. Pheasants are first. I own the dog because of pheasants. I don't hunt pheasants because of the dogs. Though I do enjoy watching dogs work.:thumbsup:
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Now it is totally different for me I own Dogs first and pheasants second. Toad had a great quote I like watching the dogs and pheasants compete, Some times the dog wins and sometimes the pheasants win. It doesnt matter to me if i come home with 1 bird or 3 it is all about the dog work for me, and with Jake holding point? I have never been skunked with him, and 2 years ago i shot over 50 roosters with him in 5 different states.
 
I know the worst way for me to hunt pheasants. Have me post......damn I can't pass shoot. As a flusher guy I try to work into or at least quarter the wind while taking advantage of natural terrain breaks like field roads etc to help trap the birds. Beyond that I let the dogs sorta have their head. But most important BE QUITE. I hate watching hunting shows were every guy must yell hen about a dozen times.

I have a ton of respect for you pointer guys that won't shoot a improperly worked bird. That's the ultimate in self control while training:cheers:

I probably would not hunt if it weren't for the dogs

Steve
 
I shoot wild flushers as well as pointed birds. In a sense, a wild flusher is more of a shooting challenge but bagging one lacks the artistry of hunter, gun, and a dog on point in perfect harmony. On runners I like my dog to reset on its own, and keep trailing. It is a thing of beauty to watch my dog work a moving bird with many points and short, intense quarterings to relocate. I simply try to keep up. Knocking down a bird after a fifty or hundred yard trail when you're gassed but the dog has been miraculous is very satisfying. If I can't keep up and it looks hopeless, I bring the dog back to the intended line. I cannot get my mind around the concept of "an improperly worked bird." But I'm just a hunter, not a trialist.
 
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1pheas4 said:
Wow. You guys are in a whole other league. Don't bring your dogs out chasing wild birds with me and my lab.:eek: You wouldn't be happy with us. lol

For me, I'd have a difficult time letting a nice rooster flush and not shoot for my dogs sake. You boys have some serious self control! I'm impressed.:)

I suppose it's all different for me. Dogs are secondary. Pheasants are first. I own the dog because of pheasants. I don't hunt pheasants because of the dogs. Though I do enjoy watching dogs work.:thumbsup:
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While it may sound like not shooting wild flushes is reducing the number of birds you shoot, it is really the other way around in the long run. My dogs are pretty young at 3 and 1 years old. If I start shooting birds they bump they will bump more and more. Soon you could end up with a 200 yard flushing dog.

But if you let the birds go that they don't handle correctly, they learn to.

Once you have an established and experienced pointing dog for pheasants, I doubt that shooting a wild flush now and then is a problem. But by that time your dog make few mistakes, and you are getting plenty of pointed shots.
 
1pheas4 said:
I suppose it's all different for me. Dogs are secondary. Pheasants are first. I own the dog because of pheasants. I don't hunt pheasants because of the dogs. Though I do enjoy watching dogs work.:thumbsup:
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See that's where us Pointing dog guys see things different. To us it's ALL about the dog work culminating in that statuesque point, that's the rush for us, and if you are lucky enough to have several backing the pointing dog, well.... that's just plain "Wet my pants" artwork. :eek:

Shooting the bird is just a bonus...;)
 
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birdshooter said:
See that's where us Pointing dog guys see things different. To us it's ALL about the dog work culminating in that statuesque point, that's the rush for us, and if you are lucky enough to have several backing the pointing dog, well.... that's just plain "Wet my pants" artwork. :eek:

Shooting the bird is just a bonus...;)
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That is not only pointy dog thing. I would not hunt if it wasn't for the dog. The work of the dog is the reason I am there. Certainly seeing birds makes the dogs work better, all dogs will disengage if not finding any birds. I spend too much time working with him and watching it pay off is why I go. It is funny how different dogs work. My buddy has a black lab that is an offspring of a highly regarded dog. He also owned his dad who he bought of of a trial guy that was going through some financial difficulty. Anyway his dog is a slow, methodical bird finding machine. Not nearly aggressive enough for me. I want my dog to be a hard charger, with a strong flush followed by an equally strong retrieve ( assuming I hit it). I think that is the rush to us. The awesome chase down of a bird, like a several hundred yard retrieve across a frozen lake in SD last year. I love his prey drive. If I have a day with a few good hen flushes, and maybe one good retrieve of a cock I have had much fun.
 
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birdshooter said:
See that's where us Pointing dog guys see things different. To us it's ALL about the dog work culminating in that statuesque point, that's the rush for us, and if you are lucky enough to have several backing the pointing dog, well.... that's just plain "Wet my pants" artwork. :eek:

Shooting the bird is just a bonus...;)
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Pretty much. And we get lots of "bonuses".
But a good flushing dog is pretty hard to beat for birds in heavy cover.

I am sure that for the flushing guys there are those moments of amazement in the dog work. There sure are a lot of them with a pointing dog. Like watching them fly across a wheat stubble field, slam to a stop, and have the other dog(s) do the same in a back.

Man, the season needs to get here quick.
 
keskam said:
Now it is totally different for me I own Dogs first and pheasants second. Toad had a great quote I like watching the dogs and pheasants compete, Some times the dog wins and sometimes the pheasants win. It doesnt matter to me if i come home with 1 bird or 3 it is all about the dog work for me, and with Jake holding point? I have never been skunked with him, and 2 years ago i shot over 50 roosters with him in 5 different states.
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Where do you find the time to run all those hunt tests and hunt 5 different states. Killing 50 wild roosters in 5 states all over points is quit a accomplishment. What states ? was it early in the season?
 
wesslpointer said:
Where do you find the time to run all those hunt tests and hunt 5 different states. Killing 50 wild roosters in 5 states all over points is quit a accomplishment. What states ? was it early in the season?
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California, Utah, Washington, Idaho, Oregon,,,,,,,,,,,Just kidding!!!
The majority was in my state in Colorado, then South Dakota and Kansas, some were early some mid and some late,

If you have hunted Phez long enough you know were they are around 11 am. about 100 to 200 yards off the road were they just got gravel to help digest there food and set back and take a knapp, :p

I do alot of Dirty Wheat, just me and the Jake, or 1 more guy and his dog, No lines no nothing Jake hunts as far as he wants to, and i were Tennys to catch up,,,,,:p some times the birds run to the end and fly, but alot of the time we pinch them in between us and they sit and Jake gets his points,It was not uncommon for Jake to have 4 to 7 points on a bird especially late season,
2 years ago work was slow and, well, we had alot of fun,,,
last year i was very busy and not near the production :( But we got out quite a few times,
Last year i even had to cancel my SD Trip!!

Hunt tests ? That is summer time fun..... Get home at 3 or 4 and grab the dogs and train tell dark,,,:cheers:
 
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I don't know of many people that get after pheasants out in the big wheat stubble fields.
That became my older (3) setter's specialty last season.
What a blast. And we shot birds when nobody else was getting birds.
 
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