It's BAD!!!

matto said:
I would have lost money on that bet. Did it change recently or was I just plain wrong?

Anybody know if spring tags are different than fall tags? I bought spring tags for my kids that they did not fill. I might be able to find them if it mattered. We're going deer hunting too and I suppose we could tote a shotgun along and keep it in the blind.
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Nope, gotta have a fall tag for fall hunting. Wish it was different.
 
hunter94 said:
lots of thoughts suggesting we pay for a stamp to improve habitat...i don't trust GFP with that money, the writing would have to be specific before that would work...i can see funds being sucked off already...:eek:
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It certainly would have to be monitored. If something isn't done soon, pheasant hunting will become irrelevant in Kansas. That would sure be a shame. I don't think there is one answer. Sure we need more habitat. I think it will need to be a collusion between programs. A Walk in fee, or a habitat stamp would be a start. What if the habitat stamp funds went directly to participating farmers. Say you sold 30k habitat stamps at 30 dollars a pop. That's 900k. Lets say 35% goes for administrative and inspections. That leaves about 585k. Let's say that allows for a couple of 2-3 acre sorghum patches in quite a few walk in areas. You would have some good hunting with something like that going on. If you don't hunt public, don't buy a stamp. I say it needs to be purchased by all non-residents regardless of species hunted. Something like this would certainly benefit all species. This would be a start. I know I hunted a couple of one acre patches of sorghum in dec that were packed with birds.
 
pheasants forever

any of you guy's out there have a direct contact with some of the reps. with that org. that you can talk too and get their feeling on some of these thoughts posted on the forum. they, i think are doing a great job but surely they have money problems, however the science is behind them. just a thought. seems like they would do well to spend far more time and effort with the legislator's than individual small pieces of land, not bad mouthing their effort.

cheers
 
matto said:
There's no doubt that deer, turkey, and waterfowl are driving the hunting market these days. However, my take on "why" is a little different. I think it's about the competition, the gear, and access.

There's no record books for pheasants. Without a point system there's just not much opportunity to turn pheasant hunting into a d***-measuring contest and figure out who "won". Limits of birds are nice, but nobody mounts a limit so you can't show it off. At the taxidermist's booths at sports shows, how many upland birds do you see?

Also, the gear requirements have traditionally been much more modest: a shotgun, a decent pair of jeans, a coat or a vest, an orange hat, a pair of boots, maybe a dog. Go look at the Cabela's in Wichita, KC, Omaha, even Kearney and Sydney and see how much floor space is dedicated to upland. Some might say that these things are a result of the popularity, not the cause of it, but I believe it's self-reinforcing. That's particularly true when you consider the advertising that masquerades as "programming" on the hunting and fishing related tv shows. Marketing dollars are spent on growing markets, not just taking market share from competitors.

Finally, and the importance of this point can't be underestimated: you only need one place to provide a season's worth of hunting access for each of these other species. In some parts of the state or country, that place could be really small. What's a bowhunter need? 40 acres maybe? At one time I was looking at a duck hunting spot that was 40 acres, and only about 2-3 of it was water. What's a pheasant hunter need? If it were managed exclusively for bird hunting, somewhere between a half section and a section would probably produce more than enough birds for most of us. However, we would all probably get bored hunting the same section week after week.

Way off topic from the original post, but commercialization of big game hunting and more recently duck hunting, but not upland hunting, has always interested me.
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You're quite right Matto! The Capitalists have found a willing market and are exploiting it. It is unfortunate that everyone doesn't have the evolution I've enjoyed being introduced to wild things in wild places where learning from the animals themselves was uniquely simple and each step grew from the one before. I backed into some things, but mostly I started with the basics-rabbits, squirrels, doves; then migrated to more sophisticated-pheasants, ducks, deer. I cut my teeth on possums, moved to beavers, and finally found Mr. Mink and Mr. Coyote as a trapper. I didn't have videos, cushy Saturday sporting shows with Capitalist commercials. I watched Harold Ensley, got Fur-Fish-Game, and used the old "trial and error" method. Fishing was just the same. Started on Prairie Dog Creek catching creek chubs, bluegill, and bullhead. Moved on to drum, crappie, and bass. Had early interactions with rainbows on salmon eggs and later found the value of floating line and a tiny Adams.

Now I am seeing 8 year old boys shooting 181 class whitetails as their first hunt. Kids with better equipment than I'll ever own on ground I used to hunt. Where this merry-go-round stops is anyone's guess. I'm just proud of the miles I've covered to get to where I am today. I find game now because my feet know where to take me and my eye knows where they live. As long as my body can get me to them, I hope I continue to be able to. Maybe the solution is: take a kid hunting that would otherwise never get the chance. I've done that for several youngsters. Ruined some of them for life......I hope!
 
kansasbrittany said:
60 acres of beans and 40 acres of corn, next to a creek. There are tracks all around, but I'm afraid I should be set up more toward the middle of the feed fields, rather than on the end. We shall see.

Good luck with your dog!

Thanks and I'll try to remember the camera.
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try and find a heavy trail coming in to your feed field, most times there are several, so play the wind to determine which trail to hunt.

Good Luck KB
:cheers:
 
gsh lover said:
try and find a heavy trail coming in to your feed field, most times there are several, so play the wind to determine which trail to hunt.

Good Luck KB
:cheers:
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How does the wind relate to the trail I should choose? Do I just set up in such a way that my scent is not being dragged across the trail, or is there more to it than that? PM me if you wish so we don't end up high-jacking the thread.

Thanks Joe!
 
mustistuff said:
just where do you think the biologist are going to get their monies from if not the politicians. you want change, politicians are the one's that are going to make it. no love for em' but they do have the purse strings so that's where ya start. not sure where you are from but in may areas of kansas there is no shortage of deer and they are not way down. turkey aren't either for that matter. wish the upland birds would be doing as well

cheers
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Deer numbers are way down state wide. Nine out of ten bowhunters will tell you that. There is a survey going on bowsite. Most lockers statewide were down 30% on deer brought in this season. Poor management and EHD has done its toll. In the year we had good pheasant numbers, our state politicians had nothing to do with it. We had a strong US farm bill. Pheasant populations were strong all across the Midwest. Had nothing to do with Kansas legislation or commercialization.
 
matto said:
There's no doubt that deer, turkey, and waterfowl are driving the hunting market these days. However, my take on "why" is a little different. I think it's about the competition, the gear, and access.

There's no record books for pheasants. Without a point system there's just not much opportunity to turn pheasant hunting into a d***-measuring contest and figure out who "won". Limits of birds are nice, but nobody mounts a limit so you can't show it off. At the taxidermist's booths at sports shows, how many upland birds do you see?

Also, the gear requirements have traditionally been much more modest: a shotgun, a decent pair of jeans, a coat or a vest, an orange hat, a pair of boots, maybe a dog. Go look at the Cabela's in Wichita, KC, Omaha, even Kearney and Sydney and see how much floor space is dedicated to upland. Some might say that these things are a result of the popularity, not the cause of it, but I believe it's self-reinforcing. That's particularly true when you consider the advertising that masquerades as "programming" on the hunting and fishing related tv shows. Marketing dollars are spent on growing markets, not just taking market share from competitors.

Finally, and the importance of this point can't be underestimated: you only need one place to provide a season's worth of hunting access for each of these other species. In some parts of the state or country, that place could be really small. What's a bowhunter need? 40 acres maybe? At one time I was looking at a duck hunting spot that was 40 acres, and only about 2-3 of it was water. What's a pheasant hunter need? If it were managed exclusively for bird hunting, somewhere between a half section and a section would probably produce more than enough birds for most of us. However, we would all probably get bored hunting the same section week after week.

Way off topic from the original post, but commercialization of big game hunting and more recently duck hunting, but not upland hunting, has always interested me.
Click to expand...

Spot on, all of it.:cheers:

Except this,,, If I owned a section of ground and managed it specifically for hunting, I would not get bored. :laugh: Even on my little parcel of deer/duck ground, there is always something to do. If I had a full section... dang, I could make a paradise I would never want to leave.:cheers:
 
Is there Hope?

Wow, great posts about the conditions, the driving forces behind deer and turkey...

I shot one bird this year, but the highlight of my year and decade came when my son, Noah, age 10 shot his first rooster this year on his own with his breakopen Rossi 20 gauge.

We hunted on some personal friends' farm West of Salina; it's mostly CRP, but has a good balance of feed and water (small creek/ditch). The reports were pretty spotty from the owner, but what the heck, it was Noah's first year. We let out of Lab, Halle and let her roll through the cover, which was good. Put up 2 hens in the first 200 yard walk; saw another group of hunters 1/2 mile away put up a couple birds. We crossed a small dirt road and started into another patch of CRP and Halle got birdy, stopped and flash-pointed and a rooster got up which dad (I) probably shot, but Noah fired as well and we called it a split. Not a couple minutes later Halle pointed at Noah's feet and a big rooster cackled away directly into the sun. I couldn't even fire and Noah missed cleanly -- totally enjoying the whole experience! We moved very slowly behind the dog as we walked out the last of the corner of CRP and sure enough the dog locked onto another bird. a couple seconds later, the rooster got up and started quartering away, at about 30 yards, POP went Noah's 20 and down came the bird; Halle retrieved to hand easily.

I'm 47 and have put down many birds, but I'd give them all up for watching Noah drop his rooster.

We ended up seeing about 12 roosters and 20 hens, our roosters were all first year birds.

So, I think there will be small pockets like this where birds survived.

However, we drove East back home to Kansas City and saw no birds for 5 hours on the roads.

Anyhow, great comments on here guys.

Blessings for the New Year
 
The idea that farm bill policy or ethanol production has anything to do with capitalism is laughable.

Its actually a form of fascism if anything, a centralized government meddling with a market for the benefit of their lobbyists is not capitalism..


Just thought I would point that out.
 
brettberry, your hunt reminds me of taking my son years ago to hunt birds for the first time.
Those are the best time, enjoy.
 
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bobman said:
The idea that farm bill policy or ethanol production has anything to do with capitalism is laughable.

Its actually a form of fascism if anything, a centralized government meddling with a market for the benefit of their lobbyists is not capitalism..


Just thought I would point that out.
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No one said the farm bill was "capitalism". I said we don't need capitalism. What we need is a farm bill. Don't know if I did not explain very well or you just can't interpret what I wrote.

Just thought I would point that out.
 
No we need real capitalism, if we had that marginal land would not be farmed because it would not be subsidized.

The farm bill is the problem..... like most of what comes out of Washington.
 
westksbowhunter said:
No one said the farm bill was "capitalism". I said we don't need capitalism. What we need is a farm bill. Don't know if I did not explain very well or you just can't interpret what I wrote.

Just thought I would point that out.
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lost me on that one folks! several years ago i saw a study that said for example in the state of montana there were only 17 farmer ranchers not receiving subsidies, sure it is worse in kansas and the rest of the farm belt. while we need a good food supply, it is crazy the way they go about protecting the farmer, think ted turner gets a check for about a million each year. not much capitalism in the farm business, not much in washington either, if there were, those slobs would have to try working for a living

cheers
 
mustistuff said:
lost me on that one folks! several years ago i saw a study that said for example in the state of montana there were only 17 farmer ranchers not receiving subsidies, sure it is worse in kansas and the rest of the farm belt. while we need a good food supply, it is crazy the way they go about protecting the farmer, think ted turner gets a check for about a million each year. not much capitalism in the farm business, not much in washington either, if there were, those slobs would have to try working for a living

cheers
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dairy farmers are guarnteed a price per gallon of milk.Doesn't matter what the market will bear. Is it the same for grain farmers?
:cheers:
 
We just need more land in CRP. In my last 35 plus years of pheasant hunting, the years when we had the most land enrolled in CRP have been the best. I think that was achieved through the farm bills. When I think of commercialization, I think of rich hunters leasing everything up and no place for the little guy to hunt. When I think of commercialization I think of outfitters turning a profit and controlling most of the land. That is not why I hunt. I think hunting is about family, conservation, and enjoying the outdoors. I feel commercialism is about money, and it goes against my philosophy of conservation.
 
pheasants

my turkey didn't show up again, did see about 150 of them but would have needed the .223 and not my bow. hunted parts of two days, about 6 hr. total. sa 15 birds and all but 4 were roosters, most of them are still out there. pretty poor and i hunted lot's of milo and some really great cover, don't believe it was the dog's fault either. no snow, some wind, no birds

cheers
 
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