westksbowhunter
Well-known member
I believe you summed up what I said previously, we need a farm bill that is attractive to farmers.
It's BAD!!!
- Thread starter KansasGsp
- Start date
I believe you summed up what I said previously, we need a farm bill that is attractive to farmers.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
That last thing we need to do is to commercialize pheasant hunting. Commercialization of our deer herd is destroying deer hunting. Our quality is horrible now compared to what is was 30 years ago and our deer numbers are way down. The state legislation cashing in will ruin anything. Wildlife conservation needs to be ran by the biologist and not the politicians. It has to be about conservation and not money.
fsentkilr
Active member
I finally got away for a short one night trip. Hunted Thursday evening in Ness County and shot 2 . I saw 5 or 6 roosters and the same amount of hens in the only place I hunted. Friday morning I hunted one place and didn't see any in Ness county, then went to my farm in Finney county and shot two more. I saw 4 roosters and 3 hens there. I didn't hunt much of it just made a couple short jaunts on it. I headed home Friday at noon. 3 of the 4 roosters I shot were young birds, with the 2 I shot in Finney county being really young. My friend said when they cut the milo there were some birds without color in it. I hope to make it back out for some longer hunts in January. I also saw a covey of quail in one of my windbreaks in Finney, but they didn't hold for the dogs so I didn't shoot any of them. All in all, I saw more birds than I expected to.
Toad
Active member
In my travels so far this year I found 3 fields in WIHA that someone clearly cared about the birds. I don't know if it was just an exceptionally caring and generous soul that owned them, or perhaps it was just some kind of experimental CRP program, but I absolutely loved the way they had managed them.
Two of the CRP fields had random weedy strips of crops hidden within them. Maybe it was an experiment to see if the acres could be farmed??? I don't know... They both had the appearance of CRP, but then once you crested the hill one had a 20X40 yard patch of uncut milo, and the other one had a 30x50 yard patch of poorly harvested grain sorghum (I think that's what it was). These were both out in what looked like CRP, and the rows were too straight for them to be an accident. The birds liked those fields, and so did I. There was a lot of edge cover in both fields, with also some plum thickets in one and a timber edge in the other.
My favorite field had a grass/weed buffer around the entire perimiter of the (I think it was roughly a half-section) field. They had farmed the center of it with row crop, and left the outside of the field pretty much untouched. I would guess the grass/weed buffer was around 40 yards wide, maybe more?
If that is a CRP program, then the Govt needs to hustle the heck out of it! It seemed, to my eye, to have a lot of potential as a win-win situation. It would stop the blowing snow to keep the roads clear, it would give the birds some roosting and nesting habitat, give them a year-round food source from the weed seeds and insects, and help them fatten up before Winter on the wasted corn, milo, wheat or whatever was planted in the center of the field, and I would think it should help the farmer hold some moisture in the field as well as reduce the blowing topsoil...
We didn't find any quail in that road buffer field, but if people in eastern KS farmed that way, I would think you might have quail coming out your ears...
:cheers:
kansasbrittany
Banned
I've not seen fields like this in WIHA yet, but I've seen a couple private spots. I have access to 1. It's good for a rooster or 2 during loafing time
It would be great to see more of this on the E side of the state. The guy that's letting us deer hunt has filter strips bordering all tree lines on his property. He put 'em in 4 or 5 years ago, but hasn't noticed an increase in quail yet. He did say he finally saw a covey for the first time in years while he was cutting beans this year. I'll be watching the place closely b/c there are a lot of contiguous acres managed this way.
It would be great to see more of this on the E side of the state. The guy that's letting us deer hunt has filter strips bordering all tree lines on his property. He put 'em in 4 or 5 years ago, but hasn't noticed an increase in quail yet. He did say he finally saw a covey for the first time in years while he was cutting beans this year. I'll be watching the place closely b/c there are a lot of contiguous acres managed this way.
fsentkilr
Active member
Bonus points are added for planting food plots in CRP. Most of the CRP owners don't want to deal with hiring somebody to plant the food plots. My friend in Ness county has food plots in one of his. He had to have the extra points from the food plots to get it in.
The other CRP you are talking about is Upland bird buffers. The outside edge of farmed fields are eligible, and they can be from 30 to 120 feet wide. This is a continuous CRP program so any acres offered for it are eligible. I have a couple hundered acres of it in Anderson county for the quail. It is also a different mix of grass and forbes than regular CRP. There is quite a bit of this in southern Anderson County for the quail. I know of a few places in Ness and Lane County enrolled in this also.
There's no doubt that deer, turkey, and waterfowl are driving the hunting market these days. However, my take on "why" is a little different. I think it's about the competition, the gear, and access.
There's no record books for pheasants. Without a point system there's just not much opportunity to turn pheasant hunting into a d***-measuring contest and figure out who "won". Limits of birds are nice, but nobody mounts a limit so you can't show it off. At the taxidermist's booths at sports shows, how many upland birds do you see?
Also, the gear requirements have traditionally been much more modest: a shotgun, a decent pair of jeans, a coat or a vest, an orange hat, a pair of boots, maybe a dog. Go look at the Cabela's in Wichita, KC, Omaha, even Kearney and Sydney and see how much floor space is dedicated to upland. Some might say that these things are a result of the popularity, not the cause of it, but I believe it's self-reinforcing. That's particularly true when you consider the advertising that masquerades as "programming" on the hunting and fishing related tv shows. Marketing dollars are spent on growing markets, not just taking market share from competitors.
Finally, and the importance of this point can't be underestimated: you only need one place to provide a season's worth of hunting access for each of these other species. In some parts of the state or country, that place could be really small. What's a bowhunter need? 40 acres maybe? At one time I was looking at a duck hunting spot that was 40 acres, and only about 2-3 of it was water. What's a pheasant hunter need? If it were managed exclusively for bird hunting, somewhere between a half section and a section would probably produce more than enough birds for most of us. However, we would all probably get bored hunting the same section week after week.
Way off topic from the original post, but commercialization of big game hunting and more recently duck hunting, but not upland hunting, has always interested me.
mustistuff
Banned
just where do you think the biologist are going to get their monies from if not the politicians. you want change, politicians are the one's that are going to make it. no love for em' but they do have the purse strings so that's where ya start. not sure where you are from but in may areas of kansas there is no shortage of deer and they are not way down. turkey aren't either for that matter. wish the upland birds would be doing as well
cheers
carptom1
Well-known member
Good point. Try to find the upland section at cabela's, outside of opening couple weeks it is nearly non-existent. But do need some camo, we got camo out the arse. Kansas has done some of this to themselves, they try to be everything to everyone. Sure they boast over a million acres of Walk in, but how good is much of it. I for one would prefer the acres were reduced, and the monies were spread to enhance the land as described above. Create a pheasant tax stamp. Create a Walk in stamp. How many on here wouldn't pay an extra 20 bucks? Commercialization can take many forms. Show farmers how to make some extra bucks off of pheasants, and it will become more appealing. Attitudes have to shift. You think SD would be like it is if it were not for the commercial operations. It wouldn't. They sustain the populations by farming for pheasants. It doesn't take a huge area to be successfull. I hunt an area up there that in 5 or 6 square miles will rival any place in the country in a good year. Has been that way year after year. There are a couple three guys that small time run some hunters through. No big lodges or busses and chefs. Just a few farmers with some food plots and winter cover. You go outside of that and pheasants get sparce. This year was a down year and we still saw more birds this year than a banner year in kansas. Something has to change. If we build it they will come, but it has to be a combination of efforts. Some commercializing of the sport will help.
kansasbrittany
Banned
The boy and I saw about 30 birds this morning. None of the roosters presented a shot, but we saw 'em and we have a game plan for next time. Those birds have been hunted! 1:3 rooster/hen ratio. The birds I've seen lately are bunched up tight and difficult to approach. "January bird hunting" starts in December sometimes
The crunchy snow did us in (no, not surprised). I was optimistic that the sun would soften up the top layer for us, but it wasn't happening fast enough.
Repacking the truck now for tomorrow's antlerless deer hunt. There's a nice flock of turkeys passing close by the blind and the boy has a tag....I think I'll let him decide if he's going to pass on the turkey for a shot at a deer. I have 4 or 5 days to learn how to hunt deer and teach my kid
Happy New Years to all:cheers:
The crunchy snow did us in (no, not surprised). I was optimistic that the sun would soften up the top layer for us, but it wasn't happening fast enough.
Repacking the truck now for tomorrow's antlerless deer hunt. There's a nice flock of turkeys passing close by the blind and the boy has a tag....I think I'll let him decide if he's going to pass on the turkey for a shot at a deer. I have 4 or 5 days to learn how to hunt deer and teach my kid
Happy New Years to all:cheers:
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Could be wrong but I thought turkey season traditionally closes on 12/31. There's also the rifle/shotgun thing to deal with. I wish they were open concurrently and that you could shoot a turkey with a rifle. If that were true the state would probably sell at least one more turkey tag.
kansasbrittany
Banned
I thought so too, but checked it after seeing birds there the other day.
It's open from December 16th to January 31st
http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/Hunting/When-to-Hunt/TurkeyYes, I'd like to shoot turkeys with rifles too
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I would have lost money on that bet. Did it change recently or was I just plain wrong?
Anybody know if spring tags are different than fall tags? I bought spring tags for my kids that they did not fill. I might be able to find them if it mattered. We're going deer hunting too and I suppose we could tote a shotgun along and keep it in the blind.
Anybody know if spring tags are different than fall tags? I bought spring tags for my kids that they did not fill. I might be able to find them if it mattered. We're going deer hunting too and I suppose we could tote a shotgun along and keep it in the blind.
kansasbrittany
Banned
I'm not sure. I'd logged in my memory that fall turkey closed during rifle-deer season and made the assumption it would be closed for the antlerless season. I'm glad they're open at the same time. It's a perfect opportunity for the kids:thumbsup:
Couldn't tell ya if spring tags are transferrable to fall, but it's doubtful.
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kick them up
Active member
The boy and I saw about 30 birds this morning. None of the roosters presented a shot, but we saw 'em and we have a game plan for next time. Those birds have been hunted! 1:3 rooster/hen ratio. The birds I've seen lately are bunched up tight and difficult to approach. "January bird hunting" starts in December sometimes
The crunchy snow did us in (no, not surprised). I was optimistic that the sun would soften up the top layer for us, but it wasn't happening fast enough.
Repacking the truck now for tomorrow's antlerless deer hunt. There's a nice flock of turkeys passing close by the blind and the boy has a tag....I think I'll let him decide if he's going to pass on the turkey for a shot at a deer. I have 4 or 5 days to learn how to hunt deer and teach my kid
Happy New Years to all:cheers:
KB, went out last Saturday evening before the cold front blew in and saw 12 doe's that came in during the last 10 minute of shooting light but they didn't present a good bow shot. We may go tomorrow evening after or during the storm to a farm in Paola at the farmer request to thin out his doe population. They should feed tomorrow evening even with the storm they need to feed before the temps drop again. If you can find a bean field or winter wheat focus you efforts there.
Off to the vet with the male britt who has a nasty ear infection.
Good Luck and post your pics!
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You guys seem to be covering things very well, so please ignore me if I'm not helping any with my two cents herewith.
An old farmer friend in Nebraska who was instrumental in establishing pheasants in his area, told me there's two things a pheasant has to have...Food and Cover! They can usually get water from dew, but something to eat and something in which to hide and raise young is absolutely necessary. I believe he was right!
In my humble opinion the "COVER" part of the equation is our weak link. Farming miles of continuous fields (or counties!) from road edge to road edge does not leave enough cover! Now even "wet spots" in fields are disappearing as drains are installed. Water ways are going away and all that is left is miles of sterile, as far as wildlife is concerned, harvested fields.
A bean field, while being a good food source, has almost NO cover after being picked. Corn and milo have some maybe/maybe not decent cover after being picked and I guess a wheat field might fall into the same category.
A major problem with all of the above is the months of NO cover at all after these fields are readied for an early planting for the next year. I myself need cover most every day and so does all wildlife! The food, though reduced in amounts, might still be there, but the COVER is GONE! And this at the worst, most challenging time of the year for all wildlife. Heck, for all creatures! One can have a smorgasbord of food all year long, but without COVER/SHELTER, it is just WASTED! Even Humans, no make that especially we humans need shelter to survive. The birds and all wildlife need something for shelter YEAR AROUND!
It seems to me, this is where we have to "change something" to help the wildlife in general and BIRDS in particular, and if we can do that, the birds will recover, but we better be doing it pretty quickly or we will have evolved to a time when bird hunting will be a forgotten thing.
I'm preaching to the choir here, I know, but I would gleefully pay $20.00 or more for a upland stamp if it would help the birds, and it provided cover and withal, BIRDS, we could hunt. The problem with all "financial" support these days is greed and corruption among those in charge of implementing the program at all its levels. Every body wants a big piece of the pie when they smell other people's money. It is still, IMO, the place we have to start... Now HOW DO WE??? Any body?
If some of you guys are farmers perhaps you could advise us as to how to "reach" the farmers ,and co-op farmers with a message or some program that would help us, help them, to see a benefit to everyone from such a program! First is there one, a benefit, and if there is how can we convince those who need to be convinced?
I just had to say something. I couldn't help myself, I really couldn't. Dear God, I hope we can find a way! I do love the time I have spent in the fields with my dogs!
An old farmer friend in Nebraska who was instrumental in establishing pheasants in his area, told me there's two things a pheasant has to have...Food and Cover! They can usually get water from dew, but something to eat and something in which to hide and raise young is absolutely necessary. I believe he was right!
In my humble opinion the "COVER" part of the equation is our weak link. Farming miles of continuous fields (or counties!) from road edge to road edge does not leave enough cover! Now even "wet spots" in fields are disappearing as drains are installed. Water ways are going away and all that is left is miles of sterile, as far as wildlife is concerned, harvested fields.
A bean field, while being a good food source, has almost NO cover after being picked. Corn and milo have some maybe/maybe not decent cover after being picked and I guess a wheat field might fall into the same category.
A major problem with all of the above is the months of NO cover at all after these fields are readied for an early planting for the next year. I myself need cover most every day and so does all wildlife! The food, though reduced in amounts, might still be there, but the COVER is GONE! And this at the worst, most challenging time of the year for all wildlife. Heck, for all creatures! One can have a smorgasbord of food all year long, but without COVER/SHELTER, it is just WASTED! Even Humans, no make that especially we humans need shelter to survive. The birds and all wildlife need something for shelter YEAR AROUND!
It seems to me, this is where we have to "change something" to help the wildlife in general and BIRDS in particular, and if we can do that, the birds will recover, but we better be doing it pretty quickly or we will have evolved to a time when bird hunting will be a forgotten thing.
I'm preaching to the choir here, I know, but I would gleefully pay $20.00 or more for a upland stamp if it would help the birds, and it provided cover and withal, BIRDS, we could hunt. The problem with all "financial" support these days is greed and corruption among those in charge of implementing the program at all its levels. Every body wants a big piece of the pie when they smell other people's money. It is still, IMO, the place we have to start... Now HOW DO WE??? Any body?
If some of you guys are farmers perhaps you could advise us as to how to "reach" the farmers ,and co-op farmers with a message or some program that would help us, help them, to see a benefit to everyone from such a program! First is there one, a benefit, and if there is how can we convince those who need to be convinced?
I just had to say something. I couldn't help myself, I really couldn't. Dear God, I hope we can find a way! I do love the time I have spent in the fields with my dogs!
kansasbrittany
Banned
60 acres of beans and 40 acres of corn, next to a creek. There are tracks all around, but I'm afraid I should be set up more toward the middle of the feed fields, rather than on the end. We shall see.
Good luck with your dog!
Thanks and I'll try to remember the camera.