Is It Just Me?

I have a 29 yr old son who used to be strong as an ox/fit as a fiddle - he is now recovering from the cursed "C"-words (cancer & chemo) & will be lucky to even make it afield this yr period. IF he does, he will most definitely be a blocker & my sole goal for the entire day will be for the dog & I to push as many birds as I possibly can right on top of his head (ZERO APOLOGIES)!!! :eek: :D

At this autumn phase of my life I don't care much for big-group/pusher-&-blocker hunting, stick mostly to small groups or just me & the dog like many of you. But when I was a much younger man w/no phez under my belt at all I would take 'em any way I could get 'em! :thumbsup: There are people who can't afford or don't have time for a dog, those who really enjoy the comraderie aspect of once or twice a yr big-group pheasant hunting, & I still have farmer friends who do the big group drives on the opener or holidays with family, friends or neighbors (and even some who don't have time to hunt & just jump out of the truck once in awhile while working on the farm & pop a rooster or two for dinner). Who am I to police or self-righteously demand how everybody else should pheasant hunt as long as they obey the laws & seasons???

As to big groups walking right over or past birds, I have gone in alone with the dog right behind some of them during mid-day while they are all gone to lunch & quietly collected a limit right where they had just trampled over an hour or two be4...I once also witnessed as stander/poster on a PA bear hunt in the Poconos - a group of 25 guys (the max legal limit on party drives) come blowing thru a swamp/thicket banging on pots & pans & yelling/hollering @ the top of their lungs with nary a bear moved for all the effort - then a mere 2 experienced drivers from our group go in 15 mins right behind the other guys almost directly in their footprints (one of them on his hands & knees stopping/starting/zig-zagging & howling like a beagle) & drive two bears right on top of me! Animals are not stupid...And no BS on the man-as-beagle biz (if I didn't already know, wouldn't have been able to tell the difference) - TX or AL ain't got nothin on PA in the redneck dept!!! :10sign:
 
It is one thing to take someone out who is physically limited for whatever reason and let them be able to enjoy the outdoors the best they can, I'm talking about te 10-25 people groups with 12 dogs that try and cover every square inch of every field in a county,just blasting birds for the sake of blasting them. That is what tower shoots are for. I'm new to pheasant hunting, this past year was my first, and I had more fun doing that than I've ever had in my life! I can't wait to get back out for years to come, but for me personally, there is something great about having one of your best buds and a couple great dogs out hunting the peace and quite. To each his own I guess!
 
Not big on the huge group hunters, done that one year and have moved on. Up until this past season when I got a young Brittney we generally had 2 or 3 dog-less hunters in our group. Now that is hunting! You have to be the walker, blocker and dog all in one. Those birds will try all sorts of tricks on you so you need to try and out-trick them. One nice thing I have found about the big groups, they tend to scatter the birds all over a section or two which is great for the small group hunters working small patches.
Best to all!
 
fsentkilr said:
Well I'm off to Finney county to close on 640 acres of ground I bought. It has 2 half mile wind breaks, 240 acres Wrp, 130 acres grass, and 265 acres of farm ground. I saw about a dozen pheasants 2 coveys of quail and 15 or so mule deer the weekend I looked at it. I'm pretty excited as I've always wanted to own a farm out there.
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Not trying to hijack the thread, but I had to congratulate a fellow hunter on obtaining his dream.....which is a dream shared by many of us.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know what you paid per acre if you bought it at auction. Send me a pm if my asking doesn't offend you.
 
ESH: I was not putting you down or trying to start an argument - I feel the same way you do about my own hunting AND hunt the very same way (in fact it's just me & the dog BY MYSELF at least half the time - not even one friend or another dog). But if the farmer who does all the CRP, shelter-belt & other habitat work & is gracious enough to give me permission to hunt on his place wants to jump out of the truck & pop a bird or two while at work or en route to town, or host an opener/holiday hunt with 12-25 of his family/buds/neighbors + dogs on his own land - or other really nice guys that I happen to know who are totally different from me & enjoy all the laughter & comraderie of a BIG group once or twice a yr both in the field & jackin-the-jaw at the local cafe or tavern afterward - what is that to me? Who am I to tell everyone else that they need to hunt like me???

Except for the farmers & their buds who know what they're doing, MOST of those big/fast marching groups you're referring to don't get all that many birds anyway - I have sat & watched them. I just go to a quiet corner where all those guys are NOT or wait until later in the season when they're all gone, but I don't begrudge any man his hunting pleasure however he chooses to have it as long as he's obeying the laws & seasons. Yeah, each to his own is what this great country & pheasant hunting is all about - there is room enough out out there for us all! :thumbsup:

P.S. I know of a couple prime fields that almost always hold several hundred birds each year after year - I would like to see one of those groups you're referring to try a managed/big-group "tower shooting" drive on those w-i-l-d & wily little tattletale DEVILS all bunched up together (especially late in the season) - these ain't pen-raised birds, I would love to video the attempt & sell it to 'America's Funniest Home Videos' (half the birds would be gone be4 they ever got out of the truck no matter how quietly or what direction they approached from - and then they could play hopscotch/leapfrog back & forth with em' all day long if they want - I can promise you most of these birds would find a way in-between or high above 100 hunters ringing the entire field - a lone quiet hunter or two is the only hope of scratching a bird or two out of these particular fields)!!! Mostly what all the groups you're referring to do is EDUCATE birds & for that I CUSS them just as vehemently as you do - but it also serves to make the game of rooster-chess a bit more fun & challenging for the rest of us...
 
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fsentkilr said:
Those types of groups walk by a lot of birds. The fat labs and fat hunters miss a bunch. The ones they leave are the ones my gordons and I shoot. Those groups usually have their guns thrown back over their shoulder and the dog is either right beside or right behind them.

I was coming out to the truck with my limit of roosters last year on the day before Thanksgiving. A pickup pulled up and ask how I did so I told him. He said that 1/4 section had been hunted twice that day by big groups and couldn't believe there were any birds left. The funny thing is all four birds held for a point and 3 of the 4 were old birds. Now how many hunters do you think those birds had let walk by in their life?

Well I'm off to Finney county to close on 640 acres of ground I bought. It has 2 half mile wind breaks, 240 acres Wrp, 130 acres grass, and 265 acres of farm ground. I saw about a dozen pheasants 2 coveys of quail and 15 or so mule deer the weekend I looked at it. I'm pretty excited as I've always wanted to own a farm out there.
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You just got yourself a pheasant mecca for you and your Gordons. My old friend and hunting buddy runs Gordons. His new dog's paw area to weight ratio is such that he can hunt northern Nevada chukar for two days without boots. Unbelievable.
 
Back the original subject, having given my previous post some thought, not only am I not offended by large groups of pheasant hunters, when I think of the long cold, muddy, birdless hikes of a lifetime of pheasant hunting, I think the pheasant batallions strike a blow for all of us, at the shifty-eyed chinee bird. I'm still not going to enlist though!
 
Its what makes the United States of America great is Freedom. You will always have those who think they know whats best for the masses,what they do everyone should do.. I dont even know why anyone would want to start a thread complaining about someone elses hunting tactics thats doing it leagal. :confused: Must be lonely way up there on that pedestal.
 
ElectricShorthairs said:
Carptom1- LOL don't let them hear you! They may do it!

V-John- I was merely complaining about real hunters losing birds to these guys, that's it. They pay their money and can "hunt" how they want. :rolleyes:
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So you have the definition of what REAL HUNTERS are ?
 
Bob,

I'm not sure what other's thoughts are regarding this subject, but I think hunting with these large groups defeats the purpose of actual hunting, regardless of the law. When you comb a field with hunters, you're really not giving the birds a fair chance, which leads back to my argument of "fair chase".

If you want to obliterate every pheasant in the field, do it on guided hunts on a game reserve. In my opinion, people that do this on public lands throw the conservation aspect of hunting out the window, and are simply there for the kill. Not to mention it really limits the small groups that are out to enjoy the day.

It all goes back to fair chase. You don't need 20+ people if you have (a) good hunters and (b) more importantly, good bird dogs.

beaglebob1 said:
You will always have those who think they know whats best for the masses,what they do everyone should do..
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I think this thread has more to do with what's best for the Kansas bird population than it does the people that hunt them. As a conservationist, I happen to agree.
 
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-Wildcat- said:
It all goes back to fair chase. You don't need 20+ people if you have (a) good hunters and (b) more importantly, good bird dogs.
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You hit the nail on the head with b.

The first year I went pheasant hunting I had no dog. I went about 6 times, hunted hard and saw 1 rooster. Second year, my dogs first season, I shot 12 birds on the same NWR (no small feat in Cali). For me its all about the dog.:thumbsup:
 
Sorry Bobby, just don't find it fair chase when once a bird actually gets up, it literally has no escape route or way to fly because they've got so many guys out there blasting away, then they insist on hunting every single inch of every acre. To me, that's not hunting, thats killing. Cut to the chase and dump 3 guys on 4 wheelers out and let them do donuts in the field until the bird flies up, or better yet as mentioned, why not just set the field on fire? That way they can ALL shoot at once? I'm not on a pedestal, I'm on a soap box, get it right bud. :thumbsup:
 
I guess this all comes down to one major factor, if you enjoy hunting with a real bird dog or not. If it's truely about the dog work, then you won't see the large groups, if it is, you'll see 2-4 guys max most of the time. I'd rather shoot 1 bird and have great dog work on it than shoot my limit "hunting" that way, I guess it comes down to that.
 
I too think it goes to fair chase. Just because something is legal doesn't mean anybody is wrong for not agreeing with it. It seems like there is room for many on the PEDESTAL.
 
Maybe you Kansans should petition the state to reduce the number of people allowed to hunt in a party. While I agree that huge groups are not what I enjoy personally, I just can't get worked up about it. I'm sure the wildlife professionals are aware of large party hunting, yet seem disinterested in curtailing it. If it comes to pass that groups are limited, then what next? How many dogs you can use? Shotguns no larger than 20 gauge with an ounce of shot maybe? Surely 12's kill more birds than 20's? Prohibit 4x4 vehicles, make you walk-in a mile or two on a muddy road, after all 4x4's tear up roads and make the locals upset, probably a lot more upset than a once a year party hunt. While we are at it how about limiting guns to O/U's and SxS, since I'm sure unplugged autoloaders, and pumps account for more dead birds, and they are just not "sporting". I agree that large groups are probably intimidating to landowners and ordinary citizens alike, look like a farm auction, and not my style. I assume they also encourage party limits, since no one quits after their 4th bird, because that would leave a gap in the line, so I'm sure some guys shoot 20 and some guys shoot 1, not legal, sporting, or ethical, but I have voiced this obvious concern to no avail before. I think a case against large groups can be made for safety as well, more people, more to keep track of, more chances for accidents. But I hear none of these legitimate arguments voiced on the Kansas forum, only the opinion that large groups offend us on a nebulous "sporting" basis. Thinly veiled in reality, and translated, "Those big party guys, ( read big parties to mean the out of state "foreigners" ) are hunting and shooting birds which should belong to me". Which has become a common thread on this particular forum. So change the law, limit groups, limit out of state permits, raise the price of out of state permits like S.D. Meanwhile, I guess you can cannonize me for sainthood, I hunt with 2 or 3 dogs, a wife and two daughters, we all shoot 100 year old 20 ga. extractor doubles and mostly shoot non toxic "nice shot" so as not to leave empties or poison the ground with lead. I own ground in Kansas, and pay taxes, but don't live there, maybe it's O.K. with you guys if I hunt there!
 
I don't care to be anywhere near large-party hunting myself, like I said I hunt in small partys or alone about 50/50 AND def 100% for the dog work (wouldn't even bird hunt period w/o my dog) - but if large group hunting is so detrimental to our sport and so successful that it is totally unfair and unsporting, why are there so many phez in KS, SD, ND, NE, CO after all those armies get done sweeping the fields year after year??? Seems to me the swamp would have already been drained by now if it was that easy...

Personally, I see way more pheasants killed on a consistent basis by a few good hunters and dogs than the blow-thru marchers & could make a pretty good case mathematically that just as many if not far more birds get killed annually by all of us loners & small groupers when added up throughout the course of the season than the once or twice a yr big-drives & posting...

PEACE OUT, this argument will NEVER have an end & I come here on UPH mostly just to play & have fun! :cheers:
 
hen said:
PEACE OUT, this argument will NEVER have an end & I come here on UPH mostly just to play & have fun! :cheers:
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Agreed!! Not trying to knock the OP here b/c he hasn't been around long enough to know that this dead horse's corpse has already been beaten beyond recognition.

I wouldn't mind seeing a limit on party size, especially in WIHA. However, on private land I feel let 'em do whatever it takes to sell those licenses and get folks in the field.
 
-Wildcat- said:
Bob,

I'm not sure what other's thoughts are regarding this subject, but I think hunting with these large groups defeats the purpose of actual hunting, regardless of the law. When you comb a field with hunters, you're really not giving the birds a fair chance, which leads back to my argument of "fair chase".

If you want to obliterate every pheasant in the field, do it on guided hunts on a game reserve. In my opinion, people that do this on public lands throw the conservation aspect of hunting out the window, and are simply there for the kill. Not to mention it really limits the small groups that are out to enjoy the day.

It all goes back to fair chase. You don't need 20+ people if you have (a) good hunters and (b) more importantly, good bird dogs.



I think this thread has more to do with what's best for the Kansas bird population than it does the people that hunt them. As a conservationist, I happen to agree.
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Argument could be made that hunting with dogs is not fair chase, I am sure PETA would agree.. Chastizing others for thier hunting tactics because they dont live up to your holier than tho attitude is total BS and should be called.
Whos to say what others need and dont need?? These hunters are paying the tab so you can hunt as well. Lot of people read these forums and it is insulting to them that a few think they know whats best for the rest.
Old addage, arguing with a fool will bring you down to there level and they will beat you with experiance. I am done with this thread.. My 2 cents.;):cheers:pS I dont hunt with large groups but will not go viral and tell others they are any less sportsman as some here feel they should do. I own Green Valley Kennels and have GSP and EPs and would never hunt without a good dog. Some may not have the set up I have and still would like to enjoy the out doors with out being tagged by snob or elitiest hunters as low class and thats what I am reading on this thread.
 
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