How to judge a good bird dog?

gimruis said:
I have only owned one dog of my own, which is the current one I have. I did the best I could training her for basic obedience and hunting. I feel like I did pretty good with my resources and time, but living in a city suburb there are certain aspects of training that I simply cannot do (like discharging a firearm or using live birds). So I paid for some professional basic training. I'm glad I did this too. I believe the most important training item is the exposure to a lot of birds. Dumb ones, preferably. That's where a game farm comes in handy.

I have hunted with friends and relatives over the years that have had their own dogs. Some of them were terrible hunting dogs and its because their owners didn't do enough training or enforcement. They borderline ruined the hunt so when I invited them again, they had two options: come with and leave your dog at home, or don't come. Its hard for someone to hear that the dog they tried to train sucks. Its like someone telling you that your kid is a failure at something. But the truth has to be revealed if you want to fix the problem. I'd rather hunt without a dog than with one that ruins the hunt.
Click to expand...
My dad had a Springer that was always 300 yards ahead. His golden, hunted with me.The reason she hunted with me, was that I dropped birds.I can only remember one Springer my dad owned, that retrieved. If I shot a bird, I had to run to it before my dads dogs shredded it. I never would have hunted with those dogs, if they weren't my dad's. One more thing: a lot of dogs, dont retrieve to hand.They will drop the bird within 10 feet.
 
ehudgens said:
1. Have a great nose. I see this time and time again with dogs that are good but not great. They really have to crowd birds before they will point them, and when I say crowd I mean be within 3 to 5 feet. I just feel the more confident a dog is in their nose they point birds 5 to 10 yards away, or even farther depending on the wind. I just feel birds get nervous when dogs crowd them.

2. The ability to use the wind. Kind of related to #1, but great dogs learn how to use the wind to their advantage.

3. The ability to cut birds off. I have seen only a handful of dogs that really know how to get in front of running birds. To me this is next level ability. My current setter can do this, but he really didn't figure this out until he was 6 years old. For me personally, I get the most joy out of watching my dogs mannerisms from the first time he gets scent until he goes on lock down. I truly enjoy the running bird encounters with multiple points, breaks, creeping etc. I love that feeling when he finally locks on the bird and you can absolutely tell by the way he's pointing. I'm smiling as I'm writing this......
Click to expand...
This is one of the coolest things you see when your dog does this !!/\

I don't think I have been witness to a dog leaving a trail and trying to pick it up somewhere else. They often do the the zig/zag as they run-down a trail and zero in on it. My buddy's dog "craps his pants" or "goes bezerk", when his "hot scent" has moved...get your track shoes on when he is it that mode, he is hell-bent on flushing it at that point...no more pointing!

Judging a good bird dog....that might be best kept in your own mind, when it is someone else's dog.
 
Last edited:
When you own a bird dog, it really is a seven day a week, 12 months per year proposition. I'm out with my Labs almost every day, every season of the year, except in the very worst weather, throwing a training dummy, doing water work, preserve hunting or just running them. Our dogs are house dogs and I really think that is a faster way to bond and build rapport with the dogs. I can hardly put boots and Carhartts on without the dogs going nuts. As a trainer, you do indeed get out of the dogs what you put into training them.
 
To me a good bird dog is one that meets my expectations. I have an over weight lab that loves to hunt and has learned to point from being in the field with my britt and setter, she also knows what the beeper point mode means. She has pointed grouse, woodcock and pheasant. Can she hunt hard all day, hell no but she will walk with me and does a good clean up job on birds the pointers miss. My expectations of her are way different than my britt or setter. All three are family members first and hunters second.
 
To answer the original question "How do you judge a good bird dog?" I will try my best to answer that question. I judge them based on a few critical components that are necessary for a bird dog.

1. Drive. If they do not run and hunt for scent you are limiting your ability to find birds. The more drive they have, the more birds they will find. You cannot train drive into a dog it must be bred into them. You can control it but you cannot manufacture it in a dog that doesn't have drive. Want a good bird dog, find one from parents with drive!
2. Trainability. All dogs can be trained but talk to anybody who trains dogs regularly and they will tell you some dogs are more bidable than others. Want a good bird dog, find one that takes well to training.
3. Retrieve. Because I hunt with retrievers I need my dog to retrieve. Retrieving is part drive, part breeding, and part obedience! Yes delivery to hand is about obediance. Many guys will say they are very obedient and hunt close but won't retrieve to hand. Treat it like obedience and see how much better your dog becomes.
4. Birds. Many days I shoot my limit when others do not, why? Good bird dogs. At the end of a hunt I can usually say I shot more birds than anyone else in the group. Not because I am a great shot, but because I have dogs with drive, trainability, and retrieving obedience.

Tha's my .02 on the judgement of a good bird dog. Field trials and hunt test put a standard on the table that you can measure a dog against. Typically the guy who brags about his dog before the hunt usually has a mediocre hunting dog. The one who lets the dog shine in the field and waits for the group to respond to his dogs ability usually has the better bird dog.
 
goldenboy said:
To answer the original question "How do you judge a good bird dog?" I will try my best to answer that question. I judge them based on a few critical components that are necessary for a bird dog.

1. Drive. If they do not run and hunt for scent you are limiting your ability to find birds. The more drive they have, the more birds they will find. You cannot train drive into a dog it must be bred into them. You can control it but you cannot manufacture it in a dog that doesn't have drive. Want a good bird dog, find one from parents with drive!
2. Trainability. All dogs can be trained but talk to anybody who trains dogs regularly and they will tell you some dogs are more bidable than others. Want a good bird dog, find one that takes well to training.
3. Retrieve. Because I hunt with retrievers I need my dog to retrieve. Retrieving is part drive, part breeding, and part obedience! Yes delivery to hand is about obediance. Many guys will say they are very obedient and hunt close but won't retrieve to hand. Treat it like obedience and see how much better your dog becomes.
4. Birds. Many days I shoot my limit when others do not, why? Good bird dogs. At the end of a hunt I can usually say I shot more birds than anyone else in the group. Not because I am a great shot, but because I have dogs with drive, trainability, and retrieving obedience.

Tha's my .02 on the judgement of a good bird dog. Field trials and hunt test put a standard on the table that you can measure a dog against. Typically the guy who brags about his dog before the hunt usually has a mediocre hunting dog. The one who lets the dog shine in the field and waits for the group to respond to his dogs ability usually has the better bird dog.
Click to expand...
There it is guys—laid out perfectly X10
 
goldenboy said:
To answer the original question "How do you judge a good bird dog?" I will try my best to answer that question. I judge them based on a few critical components that are necessary for a bird dog.

1. Drive. If they do not run and hunt for scent you are limiting your ability to find birds. The more drive they have, the more birds they will find. You cannot train drive into a dog it must be bred into them. You can control it but you cannot manufacture it in a dog that doesn't have drive. Want a good bird dog, find one from parents with drive!
2. Trainability. All dogs can be trained but talk to anybody who trains dogs regularly and they will tell you some dogs are more bidable than others. Want a good bird dog, find one that takes well to training.
3. Retrieve. Because I hunt with retrievers I need my dog to retrieve. Retrieving is part drive, part breeding, and part obedience! Yes delivery to hand is about obediance. Many guys will say they are very obedient and hunt close but won't retrieve to hand. Treat it like obedience and see how much better your dog becomes.
4. Birds. Many days I shoot my limit when others do not, why? Good bird dogs. At the end of a hunt I can usually say I shot more birds than anyone else in the group. Not because I am a great shot, but because I have dogs with drive, trainability, and retrieving obedience.

Tha's my .02 on the judgement of a good bird dog. Field trials and hunt test put a standard on the table that you can measure a dog against. Typically the guy who brags about his dog before the hunt usually has a mediocre hunting dog. The one who lets the dog shine in the field and waits for the group to respond to his dogs ability usually has the better bird dog.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't change a word.. Well said Joel
 
goldenboy said:
4. Birds. Many days I shoot my limit when others do not, why? Good bird dogs. At the end of a hunt I can usually say I shot more birds than anyone else in the group. Not because I am a great shot, but because I have dogs with drive, trainability, and retrieving obedience.
Click to expand...
I usually shoot more than who I hunt with, but I don't think it is much of a dog issue. It is because I am always watching the dog and I am always ready....being a decent shot helps too. You can have a great dog but if you aren't paying attension or don't shoot well, you will need to put a lot of miles and time in to get those limits...betting this is true for you Golden.....and most of the folks here, that do shoot, at least their share of the birds. A reason to have others hunting with you, might be to get to shoot more birds. That is one of the reasons I hunt, not just to see the dog work or to get outside, I like to get pheasants....just finished lunch of...pheasant....my fello hunters also enjoy them, so a win-win. My old GSP has no formal training and vey little informal training (as does my buddy's), they just hunt! Completey off topic!
 
remy3424 said:
I usually shoot more than who I hunt with, but I don't think it is much of a dog issue. It is because I am always watching the dog and I am always ready....being a decent shot helps too. You can have a great dog but if you aren't paying attension or don't shoot well, you will need to put a lot of miles and time in to get those limits...betting this is true for you Golden.....and most of the folks here, that do shoot, at least their share of the birds. A reason to have others hunting with you, might be to get to shoot more birds. That is one of the reasons I hunt, not just to see the dog work or to get outside, I like to get pheasants....just finished lunch of...pheasant....my fello hunters also enjoy them, so a win-win. My old GSP has no formal training and vey little informal training (as does my buddy's), they just hunt! Completey off topic!
Click to expand...
Yep I do like to help people fill their limits, but when I guide I don't even carry a gun. So for me the dog work is a lot of the fun.
 
A great dog is one that meets the standards and satisfies the owner. Nothing else really matters after that, right? If my dogs make my happy, then in the end, that's what matters.
That being said, I compete with my dogs and want them to meet the standards of a field trial. (Well some of the dogs compete). So to me, it's not birds in the bag... Not even close. I couldn't care less about that. I do care about good dog work, manners and drive. In the end, they are the ones that share my home and whom I feed and care for. So as long as I'm happy with them, that's all that matters.
 
A good bird dog is a personal opinion, a great bird dog is a consensus opinion. I've owned and trained several of both and loved them all the same and learned a long time ago to enjoy the time you have with them as it is never enough.
 
dakotasj said:
It would be interesting to get our dogs perspective on how they judge a good human hunter...
Probably they would consider how often we miss lay ups?
Thank goodness they stick with us even on bad shooting days, 85 degree days, 5 degree days.
Click to expand...
we will have to wait until we're in heaven with them to get that answer- but what a great question, id like to know what they think of me as a hunter
 
I think there are more bad dog trainers than there are bad dogs. Very few good dog trainers. Not that I’m a good trainer because I’m not. But sometimes we tend to lay blame on the dog and it’s not always fair.
 
The responses to this thread are great! Couldn't have said it better myself! I will say though that at the end of bad day shooting or bad trip, nothing makes me forget about that bad day faster than a compliment about my dog and a retrieve she made or something she did that day or that trip. I guess we call that the proud parent moment. Those are the moments I cherish, because let's all face it, shooting birds is fun but spending those days in the field good or bad with our dogs is really why we all do it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top