How to improve your shooting

[FCSpringer]

Well, let me think on this here thought for a second,,,,,,, Yep, I'sa always shootsa better, whena, I keep my eyes a open. And having a shell in the chamber helps a slight bit most occasions a too der don't cha know.
:cheers: Try them tricks on for size and C ifin thata helps some.

 

[birdshooter]

As to "looking down the barrel"...good shooters do, down or over the barrel...they just do not try to paste the bead on the bird as every Job#1.

Yep.. It's called barrel awareness or if you prefer "Peripheral" vision.

Mustistuff,

Try this simple test for me. Pick an object in front of you and point at it with your finger keeping both eyes open and focusing on the object. Now... close your right eye and keep it closed while still focusing on the object. If your finger has just jumped to the right of object, then you are right eye dominant. By closing your right eye it is essentially what would happen if your left eye was dominant and taking over while shooting off your right shoulder. To prove it even further, now close your left eye and open your right still focusing on the object. If your finger stays on the object your right eye dominant and again this is essentially what's happening when your master eye is on the same side you shoulder your gun on.

It's not aiming, your not looking at your finger (the barrel) you are looking at the object. You focus is 100 % on the object, yet you see your finger in your peripheral vision.

I think Mustistuff is just pulling our leg and having a little fun with us at our expense.

 

[thornton]

...I think Mustistuff is just pulling our leg and having a little fun with us at our expense.

Boredom is a terrible thing to waste.

There will be folks in the great wide world of public message boards though who may be wondering and deciding and spending money to be better at the many parts of bird hunting and bird dogs.
Perhaps, they deserve better than being drug into the black hole of humor or bad information.
It's often good to throw a filter into a funnel.

 

[BleuBijou]

What? you are kidding aren't you. It has everything to do with shooting where your looking.

You need to understand what is taking place with the master and subordinate eye when shooting a shotgun. Simply stated: if your a right handed shooter and left eye dominant you will NOT be looking where the shotgun barrel is pointing, that is unless you close your left eye. Simple fact sorry....

Fortunately, 70% of us have a master eye that is on the same side as we shoot. Women on the other hand are far more likely to have cross dominance issues. Not sure why, but many that I have instructed are.

Here is some reading that may enlighten you: http://www.positiveshooting.com/EyeDominanceMain.html

I am late to the party on this one. This is correct however! If you are right eye dominant you should shoot right handed and vice versa. A select few of us do not have a dominant eye and could shoot either way with work. Usually they just pick a side. Hand eye coordination is ket as in most sports, so if you use the wrong eye you have an uphill battle. I think I saw somewhere where less then 1% of the population are both eye dominant or at least equal. You can shoot with the other eye open as the less dominant eye is tracking and your dominant eye is actually aiming. When you are doing this it is a subconscious action. I shoot rifles with left eye closed and shotguns with my left eye open.Some people use an eye cover when shooting professionally.

 

[birdshooter]

There are several things I've heard of to compensate for cross dominance.

- Initially both eyes are open and just before the shot is triggered the offending eye is closed allowing the correct eye to take over. This allows maximum depth perception right up to taking the shot.

- Putting a dot, small piece of scotch tape (as someone else mentioned) right over the pupil of the cross dominant eye on your shooting glasses.

- learn to shoot off the opposite shoulder. Probably the best option for new shooters.

- Some claim those fiber optic sights such as the easy hit with the long 3" tube in front of it works. I think this is the same one that Tom Knapp always use to pimp. I dunno. Anyway, the theory behind this is you will only be able to see the bright light if the correct eye is looking down the barrel, hence thru the tube.

 

[mustistuff]

783 post so far

well, something is happening anyway and i am not going away. you guys that have been posting have been looking at your gun too much to see where ya want to shoot. good wing shooting at birds, not targets, is instinctively done by the better shots but not all. instinctive shooting involves looking at a spot such as where you want your shot to go and that is all and i doesn't make any difference which eye you have use to develop this so called hand eye coordination. if the eye was important 30 % of the people couldn't throw a ball, you couldn't keep the car in the right lane nor could you instinctively shoot a bow, you would have to look down the shaft and then whatever your dominant eye would matter but if you are looking only at the spot, it doesn't. setternut while having a short post stated when he is shooting the best, on the flush he picks a spot (head) in this case mounts the gun and kills the birds, that is instinctive shooting, he has learned his hand eye coordination and could give a hoot in shooting which eye does what. he is looking at a spot and the gun goes to that spot, barrel or sight be damn. anyway there must be some more know it alls that are sitting on the side lines, speak up

 

[david0311]

Yep.. It's called barrel awareness or if you prefer "Peripheral" vision.



I think Mustistuff is just pulling our leg and having a little fun with us at our expense.

Birdshooter---I was starting to wish you were right that he was just pulling our leg and not that ----- but after reading his last post I don't know----

ignorance of a subject is not a fault---pride in that ignorance is--

 

[Bruce McLeland]

Please don't think I am crazy but I have had 4 surgeries on my spine (fuseing 2-3;3-4;4-5 and a hematoma). I have a great Winchester 12 Ga. pump but the Dr. won't let me shoot it. He did say I could go with a 20 Ga. but that is not really a duck or goose gun. Any thoughts on how I could shoot the 12 Ga 3" from the hip? Now I asked you not to think I am nuts. I really should quit hunting for other physical problems but, well, you know what I mean.
I am looking into the face of a golden, Jessie. We rescued her at age 11 and I remember when we raised Goldens and had many hunts where without our dog we would have been skunked. I won't go on . Bruce McLeland

 

[thornton]

If everything comes together according to Hoyle, we all just up and shoot and very often hit....it's when every element necessary for a successful shot does not come together that causes the problems.
The eyes are essential elements of seeing and swatting stuff....Shooting 101.

However, a shooter not having a deep or abiding interest in a master or dominant eye does not equate to that master or dominant eye not being intimately involved in any successful shot.
I have no deep and abiding interest in the Sun but recognize the value it has for Life itself.

When you are mentioning "instinctive" re shooting you really are addressing the second 'F' I mentioned...that being Focus.
Focus is critical and one must see correctly to Focus. :thumbsup:

musti....it's likely that MM would be laughing and nearly swallering his favorite pipe were he to read some of your posts on this matter.
Have a good evening.

 

[thornton]

Please don't think I am crazy but I have had 4 surgeries on my spine (fuseing 2-3;3-4;4-5 and a hematoma). I have a great Winchester 12 Ga. pump but the Dr. won't let me shoot it. He did say I could go with a 20 Ga. but that is not really a duck or goose gun. Any thoughts on how I could shoot the 12 Ga 3" from the hip? Now I asked you not to think I am nuts. I really should quit hunting for other physical problems but, well, you know what I mean.
I am looking into the face of a golden, Jessie. We rescued her at age 11 and I remember when we raised Goldens and had many hunts where without our dog we would have been skunked. I won't go on . Bruce McLeland

I would consider a camera and let someone else shoot for the dog....that aside from the steep learning curve on game birds.
Best of Luck.

 

[mustistuff]

20 ga

Please don't think I am crazy but I have had 4 surgeries on my spine (fuseing 2-3;3-4;4-5 and a hematoma). I have a great Winchester 12 Ga. pump but the Dr. won't let me shoot it. He did say I could go with a 20 Ga. but that is not really a duck or goose gun. Any thoughts on how I could shoot the 12 Ga 3" from the hip? Now I asked you not to think I am nuts. I really should quit hunting for other physical problems but, well, you know what I mean.
I am looking into the face of a golden, Jessie. We rescued her at age 11 and I remember when we raised Goldens and had many hunts where without our dog we would have been skunked. I won't go on . Bruce McLeland

don't kiss off the 20 ga. you don't need a 12 ga. maybe you might have to get 5 yards closer. the last 3 geese i shot and shot dead were with a 410 with 6 steel shot. and i have killed a lot of waterfowl with my 28 ga. are they the greatest choice, no, but staying home ain't a good one either. remember, most all pellets go the same speed and they go the same place. density changes is all. just go do it.

cheers

 

[quail hound]

Shotgun shooting is an amazing art. Every bird be it a dove, quail, pheasant etc presents a different angle and speed and somehow your brain manages to take in all those variables, calculate them and take your muzzle where it needs to be in the time it takes to recognize the target and shoulder your shotgun, its simply amazing! I can't tell you how many times I've been asked on a dove shoot how far I'm leading them and all I can say is "I don't know, a bunch I guess". I do know this, if I miss my first shot I pull ahead a bit more on the follow up and it usually works.:thumbsup: All I ask is if I do miss a bird I want to miss him clean.:cheers:

 

[carptom1]

Please don't think I am crazy but I have had 4 surgeries on my spine (fuseing 2-3;3-4;4-5 and a hematoma). I have a great Winchester 12 Ga. pump but the Dr. won't let me shoot it. He did say I could go with a 20 Ga. but that is not really a duck or goose gun. Any thoughts on how I could shoot the 12 Ga 3" from the hip? Now I asked you not to think I am nuts. I really should quit hunting for other physical problems but, well, you know what I mean.
I am looking into the face of a golden, Jessie. We rescued her at age 11 and I remember when we raised Goldens and had many hunts where without our dog we would have been skunked. I won't go on . Bruce McLeland

Pm JonnyB on here. That's how he shoots. Weirdest contraption on his gun but it works. He's a helluva good shot too:thumbsup:

I will tell you I don't know about dominant eyes and all that other stuff. I am sure most of you would smoke me good on a clay's course. Really only done it a couple of times. Most of my practice comes out back with the boys and a 25 buck thrower mounted on an old tire and a fence post. I throw the gun up and squeeze the trigger and more often than not, they break. The boy's are getting better. I am with Setternut, when I am shooting best I don't give it much thought. When I start thinking about what I am supposed to do, it can get rough.

 

[Thor]

One of the earlier posts touched on it; the one thing that I know always works for me is to step into the shot, that is, get more weight on the front foot. Everything else just falls into place if I do that one simple thing.

 

[birdshooter]

Mustistuff, Is this method you describe some radical spin-off of the Churchill method?

 

[birdshooter]

Mustistuff, I know this is not going to make a dent in your thinking, but please read this article. http://www.shootingsportsman.com/node/6442

Even Robert Churchill, who coined the instinctive method of shooting, placed the utmost importance to eye dominance when wingshooting or target shooting.

Here is just an excerpt from the above article.
The majority of right-handed shooters shoot off of their right shoulders with both eyes open. But if you are right-handed and left-eye dominant, your left eye controls where the gun points. The barrels will be pulled offline by your left eye and its faulty alignment with the barrels.
Furthermore, the greater the strength of the cross-dominant eye, the greater off-center the shot pattern will be. Other telltale signs of cross-dominance are canting, twisting the gun in the shoulder pocket or rolling the head over the comb, and subconsciously trying to align the dominant eye while shooting off of the opposite shoulder. (Insufficient cast, too much drop or a poor gun mount can also cause these symptoms.)



If you've got the time I highly recommend this read also: Positive shooting.

http://www.positiveshooting.com/WingShooting.html

An excerpt:
Should one see lead consciously or subconsciously? Robert Churchill, Major Ruffer and John Bidwell would say subconsciously. Stanbury?s approach was more deliberate. After much experiment and observation, my advice for most people would be to use the subconscious method in most circumstances within normal ranges. If you sustain vision on the bird?s head or beak, you will certainly unlock phenomenal powers of subconscious hand-to-eye coordination.
Vision is not just a natural ability in the shooting context. It is an active, directed process: a skill. You must be both disciplined and practised. Your optic muscles need to be toned. You must be aware of importance of sustained fine focus and the consequences of disrupting it (a checked swing and a miss behind). It does not end there. You must have a well-fitted gun and properly diagnosed eye dominance. You must set yourself up for the shot well and move the feet when required. You must shoot with good rhythm and without excessive body tension. All the biomechanics must be sound.

 

[mustistuff]

cross eyed

what you are trying to get me to believe is that cross dominant people like maybe 1/3 of our population do not have the ability to point and focus, that is pure b.s. while churchill talked about a lot of stuff most of it was in stance swing throug, and gun mount, eye dominant was mostly in passing, he was also writing about 100 years ago. annie oakley likey beat him to his game however. the article you posted by batha mostly was selling books, gizmos and looking down the barrel and surely he has barrel awareness. true instinctive shooting there is no barrel awareness and the shooter is not conscious of anything but the target. you glue your eye to the spot, this is called hard focus and if you are truely doing that your hand will automatically know what to do and that is to go where you are concentrating, that is, they will go to the spot. everything you have pointed out at least to some degree involves basically aiming the gun, barrel awareness in other words. the reason true instinctive shooting is not taught in schools is cause it is too hard to do so basically they are teaching a modified aiming system so they can justify their results

cheers

 

[birdshooter]

what you are trying to get me to believe is that cross dominant people like maybe 1/3 of our population do not have the ability to point and focus, that is pure b.s.

Not trying to get you to believe that at all. You can certainly point if your cross dominant and shooting from the opposite shoulder. But you will be pointing inaccurately which is the point I'm trying to make. Your not listening to what I'm saying....

true instinctive shooting there is no barrel awareness and the shooter is not conscious of anything but the target.

if the gun is mounted to your face and your looking down the barrel, there is barrel awareness or "peripheral vision", even if your focused 100% on the bird/target. Has to be..

you glue your eye to the spot, this is called hard focus and if you are truely doing that your hand will automatically know what to do and that is to go where you are concentrating, that is, they will go to the spot.
cheers

Not arguing with hard focus, of course you need constant focus. But... your still missing the point. If your cross dominant eye is taking over, your brain is not getting the correct signal and thus will not be able to accurately process where the gun is truly pointing.

I don't know how to explain it any other way... My head hurts now.

Where you located? let's go discuss this over a beer or three..:cheers:

 

[mustistuff]

continued

Not trying to get you to believe that at all. You can certainly point if your cross dominant and shooting from the opposite shoulder. But you will be pointing inaccurately which is the point I'm trying to make. Your not listening to what I'm saying....

if the gun is mounted to your face and your looking down the barrel, there is barrel awareness or "peripheral vision", even if your focused 100% on the bird/target. Has to be..


Not arguing with hard focus, of course you need constant focus. But... your still missing the point. If your cross dominant eye is taking over, your brain is not getting the correct signal and thus will not be able to accurately process where the gun is truly pointing.

I don't know how to explain it any other way... My head hurts now.

Where you located? let's go discuss this over a beer or three..:cheers:

i'm located in the greeley colorado area, i am a do it yourself vintner but do drink other stuff once in when ever i have too. a quick break, one thing that has not been mentioned in good or at least better shooting is if you are right handed, is to point your left index finger where you want to shoot. back to the topic. eliminating the peripheral vision is possible ie: hard focus says you only see the spot,you do not have to be sighting down your whatever sighting plane, it sure is easier to teach however. this teaching thing is kinda like dog trainers, they can't teach the dog to hunt so they teach the dog to please the owner, course the owner don't know shit or he wouldn't be using the trainer, but the trainer gets paid and the dog continues to get fed. your brain or at least brains in general can and do learn to process this information, probably most instructors can't.

hope your head gets better as hunting season is just around the corner and you can't shoot right with a bad head looking down the barrel or not. right now here in may area we are flooded out of our dove season, can't go anywhere and i have now had for about a week a new bird gun and can't go shoot it which ever eye

cheers

 

[goldenboy]

Great content here! One thing I will add is shot string. I used to guide at a game farm. The guys who shoot very little always think the shot comes out in a round flat circle. If you get them to think of the shot coming out like a board with some length then you can work with the lead aspect. Remember a rooster shot in the head with the very back of the shot string is dead! (that means you lead them a bit far) But a bird hit in the butt with the front of a shot string flys away with one leg hanging and usually lands in a field far away.