House Bill 2089- Retrieval of Hunting Dog

[duckn66]

I would suggest that in the real world the use of voltage to keep a dog in line may not always be a possibility or a wise one; while smart, my setters can not read No Trespassing signs or recognize the meaning of purple; and that "stuff happens" when hunting that no hunter desires.
I have had my dog cross a line into the wind following scent...I leave my gun at that fence and find him and retrieve him...from a solid point no doubt.
Shocking him into submission while on point, seen or unseen, is what I will never do.
I will deal with landowners later...my birddog comes first and always will....certainly comes above any and all deer or deerhunting landowner.
Whether this is more a problem in certain areas, with certain hunters, with certain landowners or with certain dogs...I do not know.
This world is becoming smaller and the people are often becoming smaller along with it.

You mean E-collars aren't the end all? I can't shock my dog into submission? Very good post! :thumbsup:

And yes I do use an e-collar on my dogs.

 

[kansashunting]

I guess if this bill is passed then we will need more game wardens and more landowners to run trespassers off posted ground. And that they would be able to tell the difference if someone is retrieving game or a dog, or actually hunting posted ground.

I'm ashamed of the world that we live in. I turn 23 next month and am more proud of my generation then I am of the One before mine. Generally we have more common sense in situations like these. Talking to my father about why he quit pheasant hunting he told me stories of how his buddys would knowingly trespass to chase birds(unwounded). The sad thing about this story is that they knew all the landowners! Most of his friends grew up here and lots still farm. My dad and a few others would refuse to follow, for fear of bad relations and the consiquences. My dad finally quit going because it was no longer about the comaradery and more about killing. Now I'm not saying its all the generation before me thats trespassing every generation does but I think the few from mine that do hunt are more appreciative of the ground they have permission on. There seems there was once a time when anyone could hunt where ever they pleased. Landowners didn't mind as much as they do now. Seems like many that grew up in that age still live that way.

I just hope someday common sense will come back to America, and the world for that matter.

 

[Toad]

I am also on both sides of this. I totally understand MR Byrd and the other landowner's position on the trespassing issue. On the other hand, I don't think GSP (as he stated above) or anyone else should have to avoid hunting WIHA because it butts up to private ground.

I'm also a little torn on the wounded game issue. We hunt very hard to find every bird we shoot. I've even been with people who didn't spend much time looking for a wounded bird. I've taken my dog back to the area and continued to look while they keep walking. This year we had a situation where bird flushed at the end of the field. My dad shot it. The bird sailed across the road and dropped stone dead about 150 yards out in the field across the road. My dad had the bird marked (my old lab didn't see it). I put my gun and dog in the truck and walked to the bird (with hand signals from my dad). Yeah, I'm a good retriever. Picked up the bird and walked right back to the truck. Right or wrong? I guess after reading this thread I'm not sure.

I had EXACTLY the same situation happen this Fall. The wounded bird flew about the same distance onto neighboring land, balled up and dropped like a stone into a short pasture with livestock. The only difference was that we called the landowner first and explained what happened. "Sure, go get your bird, and thanks for calling to ask." If he said no or we hadn't reached him then we wouldn't have entered his property. Luckily, in our case, we knew who the owner was although we did not have permission to hunt there. As far as the wanton waste laws, I think trying to contact the landowner to get permission is considered a "reasonable effort" to retrieve a bird. I think that's fair in any case where you, yourelf, would have cause to enter the property. If a bird goes down just over a fence and the dog is already in hot pursuit, I wouldn't call him off the retrieve. Just let him get the bird... But I think a person (with ethics, values, and respect for the landowner) wants to cross a fence... Well, he should get permission first. Don't get permission, don't enter the land... Posted or not.

 

[V-John]

um John- read the regulations- states you must make an effort to retrive wounded game- it does not say you can go on posted property

Shadow,

I was talking about this part of the proposed bill.

"c) A person licensed to hunt or furharvest who is following or
pursuing a wounded animal or such licensed person's hunting dog on
land as provided in this section posted without written permission of the
landowner or person in lawful possession thereof shall not be in violation
of this section while in such pursuit, except that the provisions of this
subsection shall not authorize a person to remain on such land if
instructed to leave by the owner or person in lawful possession of the
land. Any person who fails to leave such land when instructed is subject
to the provisions of subsection (b) of K.S.A. 21-3728, and amendments
thereto."

Now, if I read that right, if I go over to posted land to get my dog, and there is a landowner there, and watching me, and he tells me to get off the land, then I have to leave, regardless of whether or not I get my dog. Correct?
That's what I was talking about when I asked that question.

Like I said, I'm going to get my dog. That's the bottom line, but I found that it be interesting.

On a side note, I'm hearing from my Game Warden friends, that there is a possibility that they will have to all take a 7.5% pay cut. That's great State of Kansas. Just great.

 

[BritChaser]

Anyone familiar with HB 2089, which, I understand, would:

Allow anyone to trespass without permission on private land to retrieve a hunting dog if in possesion of a hunting or furharvesting permit.

I am writing to my representative tonight to get an update.

Neither HB 2089 in the Kansas legislature nor HB 2089 in the U.S. congress has anything to do with dogs. Did you get the number wrong or transpose?

 

[Shadow]

John- I was speaking about the rules as in the 2010 regulations

arround here- the landowners just don't know what to do in the way of keeping hunters out- maybe they are the ones asking for more definate rules

sure didn't mean to jump you- heck- I've run and got a hold of mine
the word here is that there are a couple part time wardens

 

[V-John]

John- I was speaking about the rules as in the 2010 regulations

arround here- the landowners just don't know what to do in the way of keeping hunters out- maybe they are the ones asking for more definate rules

sure didn't mean to jump you- heck- I've run and got a hold of mine
the word here is that there are a couple part time wardens

Ah. I shoulda been more clear.

In all honesty, I feel bad for folks who own land and are constantly battling the trespassing situation though. That's a tough deal. I know that it would bug me plenty.

 

[Shadow]

ahh John- it's not so bad actually- the word has been "there's a guy with 4 Brittany's who is shooting all the birds" now how can someone think that- as folks drive by with 4 Britt's watching

got this 1/4 mile with a nice patch of tall grass that stretches along the end-
pheasants run, fly, and hide there- I watch them- it's not part of this farm- I could hunt it

then the second day of the season a nice sign

"No Hunting or Treaspassing, Violators Will be Prosecuted"

scared me- but not some others

 

[FCSpringer]

The ones that say,"Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" are the ones that scare me.

 

[FCSpringer]

Yeah these dang bills and regs are tough to sort out. No matter what there is always some one on one side of a fence or another that will not be happy. All they can do is try to hopefully keep them as simple as possible. And clear, which is what we do not have. Just consider your selves lucky if you don't get a book like ours, judges can't sort it out.

 

[onpoint]

The more things change. The more they stay the same. Free grazers then, hunters & hunting dogs now. SOoo worried about someone touching their land. Just like the $50.00 fine per offense...cash will get you the right to trespass today. Sometimes, the world isn't the most friendly place..Then or now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpTjQNyZLg&feature=related

 

[M. R. Byrd]

According to my representative this bill was withdrawn from committee yesterday.

 

[Soonerhead]

That's too bad M.R., I guess what you guys need are just stiffer penalties for the folks that trespass. I am an out of stater, and I have no problem with the bill...it really irks me that decent landowners can't just sit back and relax during opening weekend, or whenever, because they have to worry about people trespassing on it. My Dad taught me from the time I can remember that if you go on someone else's land, first, you better have permission, and you always leave it better than you found it. That way, you are sure to be welcomed back. This was my first year hunting in Kansas in a LOOONG time, but I hunted and had only planned to hunt WIHA. I did meet one VERY generous landowner who invited me to hunt his place, but he came to me as I was putting power steering fluid in my car. We talked a while, and he asked why I hadn't tried knockin' on doors to get some access, and I told him, "you guys deserve your weekend as much as I do mine. There is no way I'm gonna drive up here and bother you guys." He was absolutely shocked and said, "well hell, go hunt my place." The thing I guess I want to point out is that there is a sense of entitlement with most people that I can't stand. I'm only 38, so it's not like I've seen it all, but it blows my mind that there are really so many issues with people trespassing, that they have to create a bill for it. Are you kidding me?!? That is truly sad. This coming season, I will be coming back to the Dodge City area to hunt WIHA again, and I don't plan on knockin' on any doors...I just hope I don't run into these types of people since I will be bringing my 8 year old son to pass on what little I got. I hope it's not soured by some jackasses that don't appreciate how GENEROUS Kansas landowners are by allowing even WIHA on their property in the first place. Sorry...I'm not usually the soapbox type, but damn' people, use a LITTLE common sense!!! We need to go back to basics...if you wouldn't want it done to you....THEN DON'T FREAKIN' DO IT! Idiots
K, I'm done. Talk to you all soon

Stacy

and Freckles!

 

[Soonerhead]

Just one last thought....What would the trespasser do if you just walked in his living room unannounced and started calling your dog, or shooting? He prolly wouldn't accept the excuse that, "I didn't know this was private," now would he??? In my eyes, that's what these folks are doing.
K, I'm done.....again.

 

[Peterson]

Wow........

 

[FCSpringer]

Just one last thought....What would the trespasser do if you just walked in his living room unannounced and started calling your dog, or shooting? He prolly wouldn't accept the excuse that, "I didn't know this was private," now would he??? In my eyes, that's what these folks are doing.
K, I'm done.....again.

LOL, yea, like that happens every day. If you have to pay a fine of 5 bills, and the second go, you loose your right to carry a fire arm and hunt for 5 years you will stop tresspassing. But you should be aloud to find a lost dog.....

 

[onpoint]

LOL, yea, like that happens every day. If you have to pay a fine of 5 bills, and the second go, you loose your right to carry a fire arm and hunt for 5 years you will stop tresspassing. But you should be aloud to find a lost dog.....

That right there is scary

 

[-Wildcat-]

According to my representative this bill was withdrawn from committee yesterday.

Praise the Lord! Apocalypse avoided!

In all seriousness... I wish there didn't need to be a bill for such things, but with the current situations at hand, I'm all for it.

However, until the bureaucrats in Topeka actually take the time to listen to the farmers and ranchers, it will be a moot point. Such a law needs to made in their favor, period. We have a wealth of knowledge and input here on these forums... that doesn't even count the rest of our educated constituents in the state. I wish the average politician would take the time to find a gem such as this site, and actually ask the people who will ultimately be impacted by such a law.

 

[Peterson]

As I stated earlier in the thread, the Bill was likely to fail....seemed obvious.
(c) clearly shows that the intent was legal trespass only for the collection of wounded game but the wording and introduction were so poorly constructed that they became words for Bill opponents to rally support against.
And rally folks did....many Landowners opposed it.
Hunters wishing to pander to landowners opposed it.
No doubt e-collar manufacturers opposed it , etc. , etc.
Which is what happens in Life and Politics...the best spin wins.

As I also stated, it was a waste of legislative time...common sense and an honest appraisal of actual damage deals with such actions of a foot placed wrong by a dog or the ethics of game retrieval....apart from illegal hunting on a property.
But, today, MINE and lawyering up trumps commonsense or respect....whether a landowner thinking their Big Buck Down deer hunting is ruined or a hunter believing they can do whatever they desire if no one is looking.

I have come to expect such pettiness from both sides in Ohio but I see that it likely happens everywhere...whether in the world, or in a CRP field, the big Hunting picture is becoming sadder to see.

 

[Toad]

Just one last thought....What would the trespasser do if you just walked in his living room unannounced and started calling your dog, or shooting? He prolly wouldn't accept the excuse that, "I didn't know this was private," now would he??? In my eyes, that's what these folks are doing.
K, I'm done.....again.

Yeah, that seems a little extreme.

But here's a scenario you might be able to relate to...

Let's say that you spend your hard-earned savings to put a swimming pool in your backyard. You're thinking, "this will be a wonderful way to spend time with friends, family, and neighbors." Unfortunately, every day while you're at work and after you go to sleep at night, people sneak in. Whenever you go in the backyard, you find trash, cig butts, beer cans, broken glass from "uninvited guests". Whenever you clean the pool filter you find used condoms from the late night skinny dippers... No matter what you do, you can't seem to keep strangers from hopping the fence and trashing the place.

Your pool was supposed to be a place you could relax, but you end up spending so much time cleaning up after others and trying to police it that eventually you get to be a little "sensitive" about your space. When you see somebody you don't know hopping over your back fence, even for something as innocent as retrieving a frisbee, you might give them a tongue lashing and tell them to ask first next time.

It's no different when you have land that you care about, and work really hard to make habitat improvements on. I threw a couple treestands in the river this year, and expect to do the same in the future. I am just relieved that I haven't found a meth cooking site, like a friend of mine stumbled upon several years ago.

Maybe I'm just a control freak, but since I am liable for whatever happens on my land, I want everybody who "sets a foot on" or "touches" my land to get my permission first. I don't think I'm greedy or selfish for demanding that.