House Bill 2089- Retrieval of Hunting Dog

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I think some are getting off track and blowing this up into something it's not. What I'm reading here is, you best not trespass on my property to retrieve your dog or a bird that fell on my side the fence but I would be interested to see if it was your own dog who strayed onto someone else's ground. Would you be willing to leave your fully trained buddy of 6 years and go home, because you can't go get'em by law or the land owner won't allow you access?

It just saddens me to see the out right hate for one another in this country. It's like a cancer. It's gotten so bad. I have a neighbor who has made it so clear he doesn't want anybody on his place. That the fire chief has told him. If his place catches fire, he will not proceed from the road until he has a police escort. I support the fire chiefs decision 100%.
 
onpoint said:
I think some are getting off track and blowing this up into something it's not. What I'm reading here is, you best not trespass on my property to retrieve your dog or a bird that fell on my side the fence but I would be interested to see if it was your own dog who strayed onto someone else's ground. Would you be willing to leave your fully trained buddy of 6 years and go home, because you can't go get'em by law or the land owner won't allow you access?

It just saddens me to see the out right hate for one another in this country. It's like a cancer. It's gotten so bad. I have a neighbor who has made it so clear he doesn't want anybody on his place. That the fire chief has told him. If his place catches fire, he will not proceed from the road until he has a police escort. I support the fire chiefs decision 100%.
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I totally understand where you are coming from and here's my point of view on that. I SHOULD keep my dog under control when hunting. I SHOULD train him to the point that he will come when I call him. If he likes me, he SHOULD come looking for me when he gets too far out...

That being said... If I lost track of my dog on land where I didn't have permission to hunt, I would do the following.
1. Attempt to contact the landowner and get permission.
2. If I couldn't reach the landowner, I would leave my gun behind and trespass on his land to get my dog and accept whatever consequences might come my way. I would do everything in my power to make it obvious that I had no intention of poaching, but I would understand that the landowner might still rip my azz or that I might have to pay a fine.
3. If I did reach the landowner but was denied permission, I would contact the sheriff or game warden and ask for their assistance in recovering my dog.

I would do everything in my power to recover my dog, because my dog is just as important to me as your dog is to you.

I just disagree with passing a law that gives people permission to trespass. It makes them less accountable for training their dog or making a quality kill shot on a deer.

As a landowner, no, I don't want to steal your dog or the deer you just shot on neighboring ground. I just want you to ask my permission first so I can separate the legitimate people from the ones who are sneaking around on my land putting up deer stands, driving through my fields, stealing my equipment, etc,. That's fair, right?
 
Sounds fair to me...other than I would never, ever leave my setter anywhere to run free once discovered...or in the hands of someone I did not know, in order to contact law enforcement.
That would never happen.
And I expect there are some landowners small enough to care less for a birddog than...a deer, for example and so deny me the right, gunless, to walk over and leash a dog.
Too much that is bad could happen to a birddog, to willingly leave them and walk away....remember the landowner I would be dealing with at the time.
I would work with your point Number 2.

As with hunters..not all landowners suit up the same.
 
Well, good. A little common ground anyway.:thumbsup:

I can't speak for everybody else in the world, but every farmer I've ever known would be sympathetic to somebody losing a dog and would want to help you recover your dog unharmed. The only possible exception I can think of is if the dog went nuts and started chasing cows, especially cows with calves. At that point I would say all bets are off and you had better pray that you catch your dog immediately.
 
Toad said:
Well, good. A little common ground anyway.:thumbsup:

I can't speak for everybody else in the world, but every farmer I've ever known would be sympathetic to somebody losing a dog and would want to help you recover your dog unharmed. The only possible exception I can think of is if the dog went nuts and started chasing cows, especially cows with calves. At that point I would say all bets are off and you had better pray that you catch your dog immediately.
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Where to begin, first off wide running breeds like pointers and setters, can and do get side tract. Especially young dogs. A training collar is a good aid but not a 100% guarantee to stop your dog and him/her to return to your side. You tell me just how many perfectly trained dogs you have seen out in the field? In this day of work your @$$ off 16 hours a day 6-7 days a week. Not many have the time to devote to obtain that level. Their lucky to get the few days off to even be on the hunting trip. By the time I go and attempt all these permissions, find the owner, call the warden(like he's just waiting by the phone for my call). A pointer or setter could be miles away or found trouble that could be avoided.

It's totally ridiculous that some people are this damn worried about a person stepping on their ground. After reading this thread. I would have to seriously think about ever even going to these areas to hunt. Unfriendly is putting it lightly. Sure we have a few neighbors who are like this, up here what goes around comes around. A land owner like this best not need help, be it a tree fell on him, tractor fell off the jacks, Etc. He can expect the same consideration as he would give us. The hell with ya, call the law/rescue squad....hope you live that long. Up here you reap what you sew. In fact I kind of enjoy to watch them as they get older. Sooner or later they will need somebody(help). Like one this year, stuck as they run off the end his of their driveway with their plow truck. Pushing 70 years old, shoveling with a big old scoop shovel and getting almost no where. Me with a nice log chain/pull strap and good 4X4 just driving by giving them with a big old smile and the one finger wave. Just remember, what goes around comes around in life. I have plenty of friends close by when I need a hand..Do you?

I know some that will need to hire pallbearer's or they will need to die next to the whole. That's not how I will chose to live.

If your in my neck of the woods and stop and ask to hunt. You might not only get a yes. You will most likely get me to take you hunting. A smile, a hand shake and a little kindness goes a long way. Might even get a big home cooked meal...because that's just the way it is here at our place. I've made a lot of good friends over the years. That has lead to them returning the favors/hunting.
 
When I posted this thread, I thought there would be a firestorm and there has been. My perspective is as a landowner, a habitat freak, a lover of my dog and a hunter. I have seen the negative side of the 'wanton waste' law. That law, though noble and well intended, gives license to some to be careless(or to care less) in their pursuit of game animals, it gives license to some to abuse it to get on posted land with the excuse they are chasing wounded game or doing what is 'right' or required by the law. A current investigation of alleged activities of the chief of police has caused quite a local debate on what a shooter should or shouldn't do or what is required of him and the landowner of posted land in the case of a 'wounded deer'. The 'build it and they will come' can be applied to habitat, I know and not only does the habitat produce wildlife, but plenty of people wanting to take advantage of it. It must be a little like winning the lottery when long lost 'friends', new found 'friends' and poachers come out of the woodwork seeking any way they can to get a part of the 'land of milk and honey'.

I personally would like to see a landowner have as much protection from intrusion as the Federal Government has. The sign that indicates a Federal Refuge protects that land from intrusion. You do not retrieve your dead or wounded game from that land. I doubt if you are allowed to retrieve a hunting dog or let your dog run loose, but I don't know the regs on that for sure as it has been years since I was even near a Federal Refuge. I suspect that should you set up on the boundary line and are dropping dead geese on the refuge side that you cannot legally retrieve could bring a visit from a CO and a ticket for wanton waste. I feel a hunter, especially a hunter with dog, needs to use a little common sense when hunting an area. The dog, its training and breed should cause a dog owner to adjust his hunting to the area. A man with a flusher might be able to hunt near the border of a Federal Refuge with no problem, but a man with a wide ranging English Pointer would not. Personally, I have never had a dog that I would be comfortable hunting in an area near a busy highway and yes, the dog cannot read highway signs any better than it can read 'No Trespassing' signs.

Now back to the issue of 'Retrieving a Hunting Dog'. I know members of the UPH forum are ethical pheasant hunters, but believe me, there are plenty of non-ethicals out there that would use and abuse the law that had been proposed. Might be old Johnny Noitall hunting his dog WhereRU and Farmer Jones always keeps that prime spot of his posted and has family and friends out opening weekend, but now I(Johnny) will show old Jones that I when hunt that adjacent fence row and if WhereRU follows scent over there I have my 'rights' to go get him and if we chase all the birds out, it will show Jones who's boss. Or maybe Farmer Jones was hosting a youth hunt or a wounded warrior hunt or maybe he had kept his family and friends out all season waiting for the rifle deer opener when his lifelong friend had on his bucket list a deer hunt with his coming of age grandson, if only he can beat his cancer back and the rages of his chemo treatment until then.

My point is, the retrieval of a hunting dog from posted property should be a case by case situation in which common sense should prevail, not a right given under law.
 
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onpoint said:
It's totally ridiculous that some people are this damn worried about a person stepping on their ground. After reading this thread. I would have to seriously think about ever even going to these areas to hunt. Unfriendly is putting it lightly. Sure we have a few neighbors who are like this, up here what goes around comes around. A land owner like this best not need help, be it a tree fell on him, tractor fell off the jacks, Etc. He can expect the same consideration as he would give us. The hell with ya, call the law/rescue squad....hope you live that long. Up here you reap what you sew. In fact I kind of enjoy to watch them as they get older. Sooner or later they will need somebody(help). Like one this year, stuck as they run off the end his of their driveway with their plow truck. Pushing 70 years old, shoveling with a big old scoop shovel and getting almost no where. Me with a nice log chain/pull strap and good 4X4 just driving by giving them with a big old smile and the one finger wave. Just remember, what goes around comes around in life. I have plenty of friends close by when I need a hand..Do you?

I know some that will need to hire pallbearer's or they will need to die next to the whole. That's not how I will chose to live.
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I really don't see the point in hashing this out any farther. If you are "subtly" implying that I have no friends and I am a total jerk... Well, darn, I guess I didn't win your approval because I expect a little courtesy from others... The same courtesy I ALWAYS extend to them.

FWIW, if I saw my elderly neighbor trying to dig out a plow truck I would help him regardless of whether or not he is a jerk. :cheers:
 
This happened to me......this past December my son (13 yrs old) and I decided to call coyotes on our land. We parked on the south side of a full section of clearly posted NO TRESPASSING ground. We walked in a good ways and started calling. It was on our second setup my son said here they come. My son shot 3 times hitting one of the coyotes. Shortly after the shots we hear a man screaming like crazy from the general direction of where my son was shooting. We were on higher ground shooting down into a draw. The screaming was coming from the draw but we couldn't see the man. My heart was doing flip-flops wondering if we shot somebody! Then I see something running in the milo stalks. With my binocs I could see a bird dog running wild flushing pheasants. The man did come into view and collected his dog and left. But my point is this was a very dangerous situation for him and us. We didn't have a clue anybody was on the property and I'm sure he didn't either. But my 13 year old son could have had to live the rest of his life thinking about a hunting accident. If I had been contacted I would have gladly helped the man recover his dog. Think about this before you go charging into somebody's property you don't have permission to be on.
 
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M. R. Byrd said:
My point is, the retrieval of a hunting dog from posted property should be a case by case situation in which common sense should prevail, not a right given under law.
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Unfortunately, this seems to be one thing that is lacking these days with a lot of people.
 
Toad said:
I really don't see the point in hashing this out any farther. If you are "subtly" implying that I have no friends and I am a total jerk... Well, darn, I guess I didn't win your approval because I expect a little courtesy from others... The same courtesy I ALWAYS extend to them.

FWIW, if I saw my elderly neighbor trying to dig out a plow truck I would help him regardless of whether or not he is a jerk. :cheers:
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I said some, I didn't say Toad..
 
When i moved to my property i Knew the guy next to me was real difficult to deal with, had known him for years. We had owned the piece of ground for a few years, and he was not real happy when we built our house. When i moved out there i had decided that i was going to get along with him no matter what. It is amazing what a little attitude adjustment " for me" has done in the relationship. To date my little pointer has torn up his trash on 5 occassions. The first time i had to hold my temper while i was cleaning it up. The last few it has not been a problem. The bottom line if common sense is used, with a little compassion, most problems can be solved. This isn't about hunting dogs or land access, it boils down to bad experiences. For land owners it is about having to guard their land every hunting season from those with no respect. For us hunters it is about getting our butts chewed out from landowners for a variety of reasons. Bottom line i hunt in south dakota where it is legal to ditch hunt, and it just has never set right with me. I have also hunted in north dakota where if it isn't posted it isn't tresspassing. I am not comfortable with that either. Bottom line we live in a society where people have lost that true respect for each other and it is a shame. I know i have sure mellowed as i have gotten older.

If this thread was a pheasant it would surely would be dead.
 
it's actually quite simple- there is a lot of pubic land- state and federal parks-
don't go on private property unless you have permission-
and that to mean- wether posted or not- unless public land stay off

as kids- didn't our parents say- don't go where you shouldn't be
 
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I have been watching this thread for quite a while, probably should've played it smart & not bothered jumping in now either...

I do understand & have been on both sides, but it is the "ENTITLEMENT" attitude of some hunters that really gets my goat! Nobody owes me a blasted thing & anything I am ever graciously granted is a privilege.

Personally, I think the vast majority of landowners (who haven't already been hunter-harassed near or beyond their tolerance limits) are sensible people & would have no problem whatsoever letting a guy retrieve his dog or maybe even fallen game that was clearly not flushed or shot directly alongside or across his fenceline or boundaries (heck I know I would & have) - but the hunter or dog owner had d@#! sure better have a viable explanation & not be up to any underhanded monkey-biz!

Some of you have obviously never owned a PRIMO piece of hunting land packed to the gills with wild game (and low-level or mediocre hunting ground does not really weigh heavily in this argument, because nobody is scrambling or clawing to get on it). Believe me, if you did have the heavenly sweetspot/motherlode you would change your tune in a NY minute!!! I had 170 acres + a mere little 40 acre honey-hole patch in PA once, both with an astronomically unbelievable amount of deer & turkeys. I cannot even begin to tell you the incessant yr-round headaches I had over that place. Heck I'm a hunter myself, & I almost wound up hating hunters & hunting be4 it was over with! Shouting matches & gunpoint encounters, nite-poaching, people waltzing all over my place right past the UGLY no trespassing signs every 25-50 yds that I would much rather not have had to put up, shooting toward my house & hunting directly over my acres of expensive & labor-intensive food plots while sometimes even having the gall to sit in MY deerstands, killing young bucks that we practically knew by name & were deliberately letting walk until they finally grew into something. On more than one occasion I had to run the same guy off several times in a single day & they would still vehemently argue with me as loudly on the last time as the first. Some of you who haven't had the "privilege" of such an experience, have absolutely no clue just how bad it really can get for a landowner in possession of prime piece of property!!! :mad:

Be careful what you accuse - there are always two sides to a story...Yes there are a few jerks in the world, but the vast majority of landowners are not the devil incarnate & only want to be treated in the same way that you & I would. For all of you fellow hunters that say you would let any & everybody that wanted to go tromping all over your land at will without even bothering with the courtesy of asking permission, I'm calling liar-liar, pants on fire right now!!! PEACE OUT - it's late, I'm sleepy & out of play time...
 
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Cant get over Peterson saying his dog on posted land more important than Mr Farmer enjoying a deer hunt on his own bought and paid for land. Maybe Mr Farmer could take a crap on Petersons Kitchen table. His bowel movement means more to him than said table.
 
Geese, settle down people:D. Clearly most of us are not going to go stomping at will on anyones land. Get real, those guy's are not on this forum. Those idiots are going to do whatever they want when they want till caught. If there is tougher penalty they will quit. But I doubt there is a hunter that loves his dog that will just go home with out him. If you do you are not a responsible owner.... If there is a land owner out there that will go to the extent of prosecution or a fight or a shooting, because you walk out to get your dog and leave, with no gun or no birds. That is even a lower life form. How could any one even think of making someone go through that agony. Most often time is of the essense with a truly lost dog. And I don't know of any one that just goes unless the dog is for sure out there. The first thing I do is drive to every farm in the area and ask them to please keep an eye out. They always do. The ugly guy has never been found, ever. I think this is blown up to a bigger deal then it really is. For Gods sake it is all simple common sense. If the law needs to be that clear to go about a situation ethically, then we have all already lost. And the true trespassers, not the guy looking for rover, have won and will keep on winning. That is stupidity, and in no way shape or form can you legislate it. Now if a guy goes to jail for truly trying to get his family member home to his kids, thats a tragedy. And should never happen. I sugest you get proactive and come up with a law that punishes one harder, but still alows the retrieval of a dog..... Simple and short. Tell your dang congressmen to do there job, and come up with some good ideas that work for the land owners down there.:thumbsup: Our law works fine with out any problems here. And yes you can get your dog, but thats it. No gun.... People wanting to poach will take a gun when they do it.
 
absolutely FC-

some years back I took my three for some excersize at a place we regularly went- wasn't hunting season- it was a public place-

had a beeper collar on my female- there were some turkeys I wasn't aware of- she pointed and the others backed- flushing the three went where the turkeys went- private property- I called and two came back so I put them in the dog box- went where I figured she went- could hear the point only beeps- problem was she wouldn't leave them alone- they took her all over the place- I just couldn't get close enough to get her

short story- it was a Sunday- I took my other Britt also with a beep collar on- drove all arround, spoke to some land owners, drove into some fields- the boss said take all the time off it takes- spoke with my vet, and the sheriff- he said if I have any problems call him- I had a 22 pistol strapped on- third morning there was honking and some hollering- we go to it

your vet found your dog trotting down the road- she'd been bumped by a car or two- bit the assistant as she picked her up- scared and in poor condition- they are careing for her-

there is a thing about poaching- there is also a thing about finding your dog-
 
turtle said:
Cant get over Peterson saying his dog on posted land more important than Mr Farmer enjoying a deer hunt on his own bought and paid for land. Maybe Mr Farmer could take a crap on Petersons Kitchen table. His bowel movement means more to him than said table.
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Quite happy to say that my birddog, who shares my life, is more important to me than any farmer hunting any deer....seems obvious if one is a connected birddog owner.
If you were able to read everything I wrote, slowly enough then you would see that I said I have no wish to be on anyone's property illegally; that I leave my gun and retrieve my dog at the odd times the need has arisen; that I would wish to spoil no one's hunting...deer or otherwise but, bad luck happens; that common sense needs applied on both sides of the issue and, far more.
Far more than making the clear point that my birddogs mean everything, to me.

The fact that you find that connection difficult to understand, that you likely consider a dog as one does a hammer, or that you find some need to make a point by picking and choosing comments to fit your agenda...does not surprise me.
Saddens...but does not surprise me.

The mature example of entering someone's home was made before, in fact it is the example always used and just as always inapplicable in equal comparison to trespass in retrieving a dog.
But, for those needing to babble rather than think or read or consider, such a comparison makes perfect sense to the senseless.
Grow up...leave high school behind.

In my 58+ years I have legally hunted on the lands of many fine folks, many of them farmers and, here at home, I let others hunt on my land.
I try to be reasonable and since I have always enjoyed having places to hunt...I have always been open to letting others hunt on my land..as a way of repayment for kindness, consideration and, commonsense.
 
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