Gun Control

cant speak about grenades etc but what exactly did he do wrong with the guns? I have a friend who owns many hundreds of guns.. all legally. He buys and sells weekly. It is all from his personal collection. Ive seen.

Pretty risky considering he could be selling guns to felons, mentally ill or those with OFP's against them not using any back ground checks. I guess that would be OK to those who are pushing for zero restrictions. IMO, it is only adding to a problem that threatens all of our gun rights.
 
This is only my opinion!! This guy is trash! If I had a buddy that was a convicted felon and I know legally he can't own one, I am still not selling him or her a gun. Then it is from his personal collection and yet adds a sales tax! This guy is going to be made an example of no doubt!! We need to have a few more rocks upstairs than this guy.
 
Why is this news? This happens at gun shows every weekend in the US. What's the difference? I thought everyone had 678 guns in there personal collection. That's probably only the first closet for some on here. OP?
 
I guess it is news because he was charging sales tax, which means it must be a business, which means it is not a private sell and probably means he needed a FFL. As for the grenades, I thought we all had those!!! :D:D As far as the gun shows that I go to here, you do see a person or 2 walking around with his or her gun on their back with a for sale sign. All sales from the show in general do a CBI check. Not many vendors here are private sellers. All the ones that I ask perform the CBI check.
 
I guess it is news because he was charging sales tax, which means it must be a business, which means it is not a private sell and probably means he needed a FFL. As for the grenades, I thought we all had those!!! :D:D As far as the gun shows that I go to here, you do see a person or 2 walking around with his or her gun on their back with a for sale sign. All sales from the show in general do a CBI check. Not many vendors here are private sellers. All the ones that I ask perform the CBI check.

Yes, I could not agree more.

Op,

Several things in that article I find questionable. Thanks for posting it. :thumbsup:

The Grenades are a huge Red flag. Very few people out side of the millitary, know what a grenade will do. It's no joke what one will destroy. But you and I don't want to be any where near one, when it goes off.:eek:

Bleu,

Can't say I have any Grenades. Claymores that's a little different story. LOL LOL LOL NOT:D
 
You guys are so yesterday on your collections. gernades, claymores kids stuff:D I got Reagans star wars program:eek: Complete with that dude with the black helmet:D
 
You guys are so yesterday on your collections. gernades, claymores kids stuff:D I got Reagans star wars program:eek: Complete with that dude with the black helmet:D

I have the "O" Mighty creator......He trumps them all
 
A. The second amendment was written by our founding fathers to protect the first amendment "freedom of speech".


No. Sorry, but you have your history wrong. We fought the Revolutionary war with a mixture of a small number of Federal troops (the Continental Army), a large number of French troops (there were more French than Americans at Valley Forge), and a substantial number of State Militia which were under the control of the Governors of the states. The Militia were called up to fight using whatever guns they happened to own. Without the French and the State Militias, we would likely still be British citizens.



There was no intention or money to build a large Federal Army, so the second was written to assure that State Militias continued to exist in case we needed them again. That's why the Second talks about "a well regulated militia".

Our founding fathers did not think citizens would need guns to protect ourselves against our government. They had already provided us with a government "of the people, by the people and for the people", a democracy where we control our government at the ballot box, not by force of arms. So far, so good. We remain free to elect whoever we choose to be our leaders by majority vote. If we the people are not satisfied, we can vote them out. We do so every two or four years.

Our freedom of speech remains. Just turn your TV to see countless talking heads exercising their Constitutional right. You may or may not like what they say, but all are free to speak.

That's the simple facts of history. If you believe the Second was written for any other purpose, then you have been misinformed.
 
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No. Sorry, but you have your history wrong. We fought the Revolutionary war with a mixture of a small number of Federal troops (the Continental Army), a larger number of French troops (there were more French than Americans at Valley Forge), and a substantial number of State Militia which were under the control of the Governors of the states. The Militia were called up to fight using whatever guns they happened to own. Without the French and the State Militias, we would likely still be British citizens.



There was no intention to build a large Federal Army, so the second was written to assure that State Militias continued to exist in case we needed them again. That's why the Second talks about "a well regulated militia".

That's the simple facts of history. If you believe the Second was written for any other purpose, then you have been misinformed.

Sorry your right about the history, But your dead wrong about the Intent of the 2nd amendment. The second amendment is about protecting the first amendment. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Protection from the Big Government taking the rights away from the people to defend them selves from tyranny. AKA slavery, dictators, and other Idiots that seek to take are freedoms away from Us.

Here it is, the Second amendment. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

The founding Fathers understood that a government can go bad, and make slaves out of the people.

Back to the 1ST amendment. If you can't open your mouth and protest what's happening to you and back it up with guns. YOUR a slave. :eek:
 
Sorry your right about the history, But your dead wrong about the Intent of the 2nd amendment. The second amendment is about protecting the first amendment. FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I think you (or someone you listen to) made that up out of thin air, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Kindly show me where in the Constitution, or anywhere else in the deliberations of the Continental Congress, or in any of the writings of the members of the Continental Congress, or in the writings of Washington, Jefferson, or any other of the founding fathers it says what you claim.

Who, when and where, did anyone involved with the Constitution state that the Second was written to protect the First by force of arms?
 
The 2nd amendment is written to keep you from falling victim to people like Hitler! or recent staff... "FREEDOM";)

Interesting that you use Hitler as your example, seeing that he was born 150 years after the Constitution was written.

The Bill of Rights was actually written to protect us from people like King George III, and so it prohibits government sponsored religion, requires fair and speedy trials, protects free speech, insures our privacy, provides for the free election of our leaders, and prohibits warrant-less searches.

As I said to jmac - if you don't like what our elected officials do, then just vote them out of office. You can run yourself.

Democracy is a wonderful thing. Even when your guy loses an election.
 
Divide and conquer...is alive and well.
 
No. Sorry, but you have your history wrong. We fought the Revolutionary war with a mixture of a small number of Federal troops (the Continental Army), a large number of French troops (there were more French than Americans at Valley Forge), and a substantial number of State Militia which were under the control of the Governors of the states. The Militia were called up to fight using whatever guns they happened to own. Without the French and the State Militias, we would likely still be British citizens.



There was no intention or money to build a large Federal Army, so the second was written to assure that State Militias continued to exist in case we needed them again. That's why the Second talks about "a well regulated militia".

Our founding fathers did not think citizens would need guns to protect ourselves against our government. They had already provided us with a government "of the people, by the people and for the people", a democracy where we control our government at the ballot box, not by force of arms. So far, so good. We remain free to elect whoever we choose to be our leaders by majority vote. If we the people are not satisfied, we can vote them out. We do so every two or four years.

Our freedom of speech remains. Just turn your TV to see countless talking heads exercising their Constitutional right. You may or may not like what they say, but all are free to speak.

That's the simple facts of history. If you believe the Second was written for any other purpose, then you have been misinformed.


You seem to have revised the "simple facts of history".

Either you haven't read the state constitutions or the statements from the ratification conventions or newspapers or minutes of town council meetings of the colonial, revolutionary and early days of the United States or if you have read them you choose to use only those statements which support your opinion. There are numerous statements affirming the right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and their state. Your attempt to focus on the "well regulated militia" phrase is a common, cheap attempt to misdirect attention from the fact that the 2nd Amendment clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What part of "shall not" is unclear?

Contrary to your statement that "there was no intention or money to build a large standing army" there was heated and vigorous debate on the subject. Anti-Federalists had a healthy fear of a large standing army, while at the same time, Federalists recognized that external threats (Spain for instance) created a need for a standing army. Both sides had valid arguments and legitimate cause for concern but I can't seem to find either side using "we'll have to pass it to find out what's in it" as a rebuttal.

Our founders did not establish a democracy, they established a republic, "We have given you a republic, if you can keep it?" -Ben Franklin.) where the rule of law, as stated in the Constitution, was intended to limit the government to the sacred duty of protecting the freedoms, liberty and rights of the individual. A republic, where the rule of law was to restrict and restrain the power of government corrupted by human nature to impose it's will on the citizens and defend their liberty, freedom and God given rights.

As to "controlling our government at the ballot box"...... not hardly. We now live in a country where a judge's "opinion" is more powerful than the results of an election, (see Prop 8 in California, the state constitution was properly, legally amended by a majority vote but that vote was unconstitutionally overturned by one judge) and a judges "opinion" is now more powerful than the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The courts have created clauses and rights not stated or implied in the Constitution to suppress and restrict religious expression and legalize abortion. When the courts are handing down rulings you agree with it's "so far, so good", but check with the AP and see if their understanding of the term "useful idiot" has changed now that they find out the Justice Department has been tapping their phones. Eric Holder is hero for running guns to Mexico to lay the groundwork for "enhanced background checks" but he is evil incarnate for biting the hand that feeds him by spying on reporters.

Our "government of the people, by the people for the people" has recently been caught in the act, using the power of the IRS to suppress speech and political expression with which it did not agree. So far, not so good.

Our Founding Fathers tried to give us a government based on timeless principles, to protect the Nation against the fickle whims of fashion and popular opinion (known today as political correctness) the 2nd Amendment was not intended to be a band aid because the government of that day and time could not afford to buy guns for the army. They recognized the power of the government and the fact that it would be made up of human beings who by nature are easily corrupted. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Amendments and the amendment process were put in place to protect the rights of the individual, not groups, not majorities but individual citizens. If the government infringes the right of the individual citizen to protect themselves and their property, regardless of whether the threat to their life and property comes from an individual, group or even the government then all the other rights are lost as well. Thus the 2nd Amendment is considered a guardian of the 1st Amendment
 
You seem to have revised the "simple facts of history".

Either you haven't read the state constitutions or the statements from the ratification conventions or newspapers or minutes of town council meetings of the colonial, revolutionary and early days of the United States or if you have read them you choose to use only those statements which support your opinion. There are numerous statements affirming the right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and their state. Your attempt to focus on the "well regulated militia" phrase is a common, cheap attempt to misdirect attention from the fact that the 2nd Amendment clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What part of "shall not" is unclear?

Contrary to your statement that "there was no intention or money to build a large standing army" there was heated and vigorous debate on the subject. Anti-Federalists had a healthy fear of a large standing army, while at the same time, Federalists recognized that external threats (Spain for instance) created a need for a standing army. Both sides had valid arguments and legitimate cause for concern but I can't seem to find either side using "we'll have to pass it to find out what's in it" as a rebuttal.

Our founders did not establish a democracy, they established a republic, "We have given you a republic, if you can keep it?" -Ben Franklin.) where the rule of law, as stated in the Constitution, was intended to limit the government to the sacred duty of protecting the freedoms, liberty and rights of the individual. A republic, where the rule of law was to restrict and restrain the power of government corrupted by human nature to impose it's will on the citizens and defend their liberty, freedom and God given rights.

As to "controlling our government at the ballot box"...... not hardly. We now live in a country where a judge's "opinion" is more powerful than the results of an election, (see Prop 8 in California, the state constitution was properly, legally amended by a majority vote but that vote was unconstitutionally overturned by one judge) and a judges "opinion" is now more powerful than the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The courts have created clauses and rights not stated or implied in the Constitution to suppress and restrict religious expression and legalize abortion. When the courts are handing down rulings you agree with it's "so far, so good", but check with the AP and see if their understanding of the term "useful idiot" has changed now that they find out the Justice Department has been tapping their phones. Eric Holder is hero for running guns to Mexico to lay the groundwork for "enhanced background checks" but he is evil incarnate for biting the hand that feeds him by spying on reporters.

Our "government of the people, by the people for the people" has recently been caught in the act, using the power of the IRS to suppress speech and political expression with which it did not agree. So far, not so good.

Our Founding Fathers tried to give us a government based on timeless principles, to protect the Nation against the fickle whims of fashion and popular opinion (known today as political correctness) the 2nd Amendment was not intended to be a band aid because the government of that day and time could not afford to buy guns for the army. They recognized the power of the government and the fact that it would be made up of human beings who by nature are easily corrupted. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Amendments and the amendment process were put in place to protect the rights of the individual, not groups, not majorities but individual citizens. If the government infringes the right of the individual citizen to protect themselves and their property, regardless of whether the threat to their life and property comes from an individual, group or even the government then all the other rights are lost as well. Thus the 2nd Amendment is considered a guardian of the 1st Amendment

Well stated. Balls on dead accurate. +1:thumbsup::10sign::cheers:
 
I had heard the 'brightest minds" of of constututional scholars, argue this same case, over and over again. Unless we raise up the forefathers, we won't know! I am fairly confident they were happy to have fire arms in possession of ordinary citizens, without any restraint. Formation of Militia answerable to the states was a method to make these "citizens" a deterent to foreign agression. Firepower has advanced, logically our militias were stocked with advanced weapons to comply. The citizen soldier, is still the vangaurd of our principle. After all even as I was in high school, the US government subsidized military target rifles, and ammo, to NRA members and sponsored the NRA marksmanship classes and teams. Believing it made us safer. Which is a nice irony compared to our current position. They also gave released prisoners from Federal Prisons, $50.00, a saddle, and a Winchester and shells to resume civilian life! I think you still get the $50.00 and a cab ride! :cheers:
 
All I know is when an group like the NRA (NOT REAL AMERICANS:D) say there at war:eek: They need to be put down like a horse with a broken leg. Them using that kinda talk does nothing but stur up the stupid to do bad things. And get a bunch of people to buy really cheap crappy guns:) Move or vote if U don't like the good old USA.
 
You seem to have revised the "simple facts of history".

I have reversed no facts. You, however have distorted historical facts by making false claims about history, the Constitution and The Bill Of Rights.


Either you haven't read the state constitutions or the statements from the ratification conventions or newspapers or minutes of town council meetings of the colonial, revolutionary and early days of the United States or if you have read them you choose to use only those statements which support your opinion. There are numerous statements affirming the right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and their state. Your attempt to focus on the "well regulated militia" phrase is a common, cheap attempt to misdirect attention from the fact that the 2nd Amendment clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What part of "shall not" is unclear?

I'm quite clear on the. second amendment. It's one sentence, plain English. You, however have bought into the idea that the only the second part of it counts. That's a cheap trick. If you're going to quote the second, then quote and understand all it it.


Contrary to your statement that "there was no intention or money to build a large standing army" there was heated and vigorous debate on the subject. Anti-Federalists had a healthy fear of a large standing army, while at the same time, Federalists recognized that external threats (Spain for instance) created a need for a standing army. Both sides had valid arguments and legitimate cause for concern but I can't seem to find either side using "we'll have to pass it to find out what's in it" as a rebuttal.

"we'll have to pass it and find out" is another cheap trick on your part. Nobody ever said that at the time, and you ought to know that.


Our founders did not establish a democracy, they established a republic,

Another cheap semantic trick. Our founders most assuredly established a democracy wherein our leaders are elected by majority vote. It is also a republic, and the terms are not mutually exclusive.

"We have given you a republic, if you can keep it?" -Ben Franklin.) where the rule of law, as stated in the Constitution, was intended to limit the government to the sacred duty of protecting the freedoms, liberty and rights of the individual. A republic, where the rule of law was to restrict and restrain the power of government corrupted by human nature to impose it's will on the citizens and defend their liberty, freedom and God given rights.

Yet another cheap trick. Our government does not pretend to guarantee "God given rights". You must be thinking of theocracies like Iran, where the supposed will of Allah rules. In our country, all religious beliefs are welcome whether they involve God, Allah, Yahweh, the Great Spirit or no diety at all..

As to "controlling our government at the ballot box"...... not hardly. We now live in a country where a judge's "opinion" is more powerful than the results of an election, (see Prop 8 in California, the state constitution was properly, legally amended by a majority vote but that vote was unconstitutionally overturned by one judge) and a judges "opinion" is now more powerful than the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

All judges are either democratically elected or are nominated and confirmed by elected officials. If you don't like their decisions, then change, by vote, them or the officials who elect and confirm them.


The courts have created clauses and rights not stated or implied in the Constitution to suppress and restrict religious expression and legalize abortion.

There is no mention of abortion, one way or another in the Constitution, and the courts have actually expanded religious rights by preventing one religion from dominating law. For example, Christians are no longer to emblazon their slogans on public buildings, which belong to all the people, regardless of their religion. And that's the was the founders intended it. Read the Constitution, Article 4, paragraph 3 : "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.


When the courts are handing down rulings you agree with it's "so far, so good", but check with the AP and see if their understanding of the term "useful idiot" has changed now that they find out the Justice Department has been tapping their phones. Eric Holder is hero for running guns to Mexico to lay the groundwork for "enhanced background checks" but he is evil incarnate for biting the hand that feeds him by spying on reporters.

If, and that's IF until proven, Holder has violated law, he can be charged tried and convicted. It takes a legal process, and not your personal opinion to convict him.


Our "government of the people, by the people for the people" has recently been caught in the act, using the power of the IRS to suppress speech and political expression with which it did not agree. So far, not so good.

If laws have been broken, then those who are criminals can be brought to justice. Conviction of a crime requires more than your and Fox News opinion, which is all that exists so far.


Our Founding Fathers tried to give us a government based on timeless principles,

NO, that's not correct. Our founding fathers gave us an initial start on a path which they KNEW would require amendment and change over time, hence the amendment process which they themselves used


to protect the Nation against the fickle whims of fashion and popular opinion (known today as political correctness) the 2nd Amendment was not intended to be a band aid

The Bill of rights, all ten amendments, was absolutely a band-aid, just as they intended!! Sheesh!


because the government of that day and time could not afford to buy guns for the army. They recognized the power of the government and the fact that it would be made up of human beings who by nature are easily corrupted. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Amendments and the amendment process were put in place to protect the rights of the individual, not groups, not majorities but individual citizens. If the government infringes the right of the individual citizen to protect themselves and their property, regardless of whether the threat to their life and property comes from an individual, group or even the government then all the other rights are lost as well. Thus the 2nd Amendment is considered a guardian of the 1st Amendment{

B]
I cannot follow your reasoning in that paragraph. Try it again sober.[/B]
 
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