Gun Control

The intent was to keep the citizenry as well armed as the government. When the government goes back to flintlocks, I will too. This argument does not wash.


Wow! You do know that we did not have a standing army at the time? Who are we protecting ourselves from? This is great comedy in this thread, a thread that has come undone and it twisting in the wind. I have to many real things in life to worry about other than the "they are coming to get me Glen Becks of the world". :cheers:


I just have to ask this question.

How can a person that wares this countries uniform, that talks about the flag of this country and his/her pride. Then talk of their distrust of the government. Condemn our president and talk of the need to use firearms against that same government. In most countries that is treason..Myself..I just don't understand it. Pride and hate all in the same breath
 
Bigblue

I just have to ask this question.

How can a person that wares this countries uniform, that talks about the flag of this country and his/her pride. Then talk of their distrust of the government. Condemn our president and talk of the need to use firearms against that same government. In most countries that is treason..Myself..I just don't understand it. Pride and hate all in the same breath

Couldn't agree with you more!
 
As far as the five shells is concerned, if you come hunt here when the pheasants are bunched up you will quite likely shoot more than 5.

Bet you'd save money on ammo if you hunted with a single or double shot. :D
 
I love my Country! I do not love my Government! Last week our State Government (D) Decided not to let the public comment on the issues at hand. Everyone who attended from across the State was told their voice would not be heard. Only "experts" and they were limited and hand picked and were held to 3 min. This has never happened before! We are suppose to have a voice and our representatives did this State a huge disservice. And I am suppose to love my government. Take a few minutes if you really care and watch this interview with a local Sheriff from the Springs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSeSC0ZqWc&feature=youtu.be [1]
 
Here's the deal. Majority rules. That's the way our country was set up to run. We win some we loose some. When we(or should I say me) wins..everything is hunky dory. When a persons interests and wants loose. Things aren't so good. This is the problem. Some think their ideas are surely the most popular and some evil must be at work because nobody could possibly be against something I'm for. Fact is, things are a changing. I told people for a number of years. Keep pushing this pay to play, make everything costly for people to enjoy the sport of shooting, hunting, fishing, Etc. and we will price people out of the sport and once they have lost interest. They will not support us gun owners and hunters when it comes to the voting both. I believe we are seeing just that but there are those that will continue live in denial and think those who can afford to buy their way in the sport will save it with their money. Our strength is in numbers. Myself, I think it's too late..a course has been decided and our ill ways and greed will be our demise.

Onpoint
 
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If the majority rules, why would you have to basically threaten people for your support? Is this not wrong to you?

Notes/Comments from Sheriff Maketa will appear in a bold, italicized, blue font. These notes and comments were added outside of the chain of emails for the purpose of explanation.
The following are three emails I received that express concern with regard to the senate dems feedback to Sheriff's from other sources at the capital. It should be noted there absolutely no regulation or statutory requirement to have 7 republicans sign on as sponsors to permit late bill status such as insinuated by the senate president.
(Email #1)
From: Christopher Olson [colson@csoc.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:54 AM To: Terry Maketa Subject: RE: Agreed upon amendments - SB 197
Understand. It is probably no surprise that the Dems are mad at us, but I agree that we can still be true to what all of you testified to the other day. I was advised that a letter of support for SB197 might sooth certain bad feelings. Sheriff, it is up to the Legislative Committee to let me know what to do. Thanks for your input.
Chris
From: Terry Maketa [mailto:TerryMaketa@elpasoco.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:49 AM To: Christopher Olson Subject: Re: Agreed upon amendments - SB 197
I see how it if we want a salary bill then we better be obedient because the dems are mad at us. Well from what I've seen and read the Sheriffs are not happy with the Dems or the process they used to derail citizen input.. Addressing salaries at a fair market value is a legislative mandate not an option or and emotional knee jerk reaction. It was the dems process that was used to determine a fair compensation proposal, let's not forget that fact. So sheriff mis behave in the eyes of the dems and now they threaten us with salary. Yes it is selling out. Two separate issues and that is also a fact.
From: Christopher Olson [mailto:colson@csoc.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:23 AM To: Chad Day (c.day@yumacountysheriff.net) <c.day@yumacountysheriff.net>; Doug Darr (dndarr@co.adams.co.us) <dndarr@co.adams.co.us>; dweaver@dcsheriff.net<dweaver@dcsheriff.net>; Gary Cure <gcure@csoc.org>; Grayson Robinson (grobinson@co.arapahoe.co.us) <grobinson@co.arapahoe.co.us>; James Beicker (jim.beicker@fremontso.com) <jim.beicker@fremontso.com>; John Cooke (jcooke@co.weld.co.us) <jcooke@co.weld.co.us>; Joseph D. Hoy (joseph@sheriff.eagle.co.us) <joseph@sheriff.eagle.co.us>; Kirk Taylor (taylork@co.pueblo.co.us) <taylork@co.pueblo.co.us>; Lou Vallario (lvallario@garcosheriff.com) <lvallario@garcosheriff.com>; Peg Ackerman <aicorp@qwestoffice.net>; Terry Maketa; Tim Jantz (tjantz@sheriff.moffat.co.us) <tjantz@sheriff.moffat.co.us> Cc: Fred McKee <fmckee@deltacounty.com>; peg@aic-co.com <peg@aic-co.com> Subject: FW: Agreed upon amendments - SB 197
All,
Below are the amendments to SB 197 that Sheriff Robinson and I discussed with a small group yesterday, from CDAC, the Chiefs, and Amy Miller with CCADV.
.
Also, you can go to the General Assembly website to find the current version
of SB197. Thank you for your consideration of this urgent matter. Chris
(Email #2)
-----Original Message----- From: Christopher Olson [mailto:colson@csoc.org] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 1:48 PM To: Subject: FW: Legislative Meeting
Sheriffs,
This effort is not dead! Please help Sheriff Pelle by getting one or more of your Republican legislators to help. Thank you.
Chris
From: Pelle, Joe [mailto:jpelle@bouldercounty.org] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 1:45 PM To: peg@aic-co.com; grobinson@co.arapahoe.co.us; Christopher Olson Subject: Legislative Meeting
I won't be attending the legislative meeting.
The only update I have on the salary commission is that we are still trying to nail down one Republican House Representative willing to sponsor the bill with Rep. Levy.
Speaker Ferrandino and House Majority Leader Hullinghorst indicate they will give late bill status on the House side if we get a Republican to sponsor a bill with Claire. That is still proving to be difficult.
Based on other information I received today, I would
strongly advise that we review these amendments and potentially change our position on this bill from neutral to
support. I feel that we were very much listened to during this small group discussion and that the CSOC voice
was heard.
I have been advised by a reliable source at the Capitol that the Dems are seriously not pleased with the CSOC
positions on the gun bills, and given the potential for a real salary bill to be introduced as you shall see from a
follow-up email from Sheriff Pelle,, support of SB197 would put us in a more favorable light for salary bill
support from the Dems. I do not believe we would be sacrificing our principles or positions on the other gun
bills by supporting SB197
Please let us know what you think on this proposal ASAP as I need to get a letter from us to the Senate Dems
before the close of business today.
The President of the Senate, Morse, has stipulated that we have to get seven Republican co-sponsors before he
will grant late bill status on the Senate side. That is not going to happen. After the sheriff's finish testifying on
the gun bills it won't change, but will get worse.
(Email #3)
From: Pelle, Joe [mailto:jpelle@bouldercounty.org] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:02 PM To: Christopher Olson Cc: peg@aic-co.com; grobinson@co.arapahoe.co.us Subject: Salary Bill
The Salary Commission will be presenting our recommendations to the joint Committee of Local Government Affairs, (House and Senate combined), next Thursday February 21st, at 08:00 at the state capitol. (I don't have the room number just yet).
Our next best chance to get a bill going is on the House side. I have a Democratic Representative from my district, (Rep. Levy), willing to sponsor a bill. However, the Speaker of the House will only grant late bill status if there is a Republican co-sponsor. So, we absolutely need a Republican State Representative willing to co-sponsor a salary bill.
I am attaching the final version of our presentation.
Sheriff Joe Pelle Boulder County, Colorado Office# 303-441-4605 Fax# 303-441-4739 jpelle@bouldercounty.org
Linda Romer-Todd, (the chairperson of the salary commission), met with the Senate President Morse today, and
was essentially informed that he was fundamentally opposed to a salary bill and will not give it late bill status to
allow it to be heard on the Senate side. There is speculation that we are being punished for the CSOC position
on gun bills???
Facts:
The Salary Commission studied data from 2006 thru 2012. The Commission found the CPI increased 13.77% while non- elected county salaries increased an average of 11.07% during the same time. The last salary increase took effect in 2006, and was fully implemented in 2009. If this current recommendation were to be passed in 2013, it would not take effect until 2015 or be fully implemented until 2017, by which time these recommended salaries will already be 4 years stale dated. If no action is taken this year, or in 2014, which is an election year, then 10 years will pass until another increase can take effect and won't be fully implemented until 2019. This continued delay will have a direct impact on counties. One of the deciding factors to form the Commission in 2005, came from counties overwhelmingly requesting that salary adjustments for local county elected officials be more regular rather than the past very large and costly adjustments which were based over longer time periods.
On average, sheriffs' salaries are $13,439 below other similar situated positions along the Front Range. Some police chiefs make $10,000 to $35,000 more annually than sheriffs; and, captains in some Front Range sheriff's offices make $6,000 to $8,000 annually more than their sheriff, according to Commission findings. The salary Commission, again created and appointed by the Democrat leadership, even states, "January 2013 is the time for action". C.R.S 30-3-105, spells out the Commission's responsibilities and requires the Commission report to the legislature during odd years. It further mandates that the recommendations contained in the report "shall be based on sound and systematic occupational analysis and job evaluation and shall consider the information in subsection (1) of this section." Furthermore, the Salary Bill, if passed, would have no state fiscal impact, nor would it increase any fees or taxes at the county level. The only fiscal impact is to county government and would only affect those following the 2014 election and taking office in January 2015.
Unanswered Questions:
Was the Democratic leadership creating road blocks to the Salary Commission when they set the requirement that seven Republican senators must sign on as sponsors as seen in the above email? Did they require this on any gun bills? Absolutely not, nor did they let citizen’s voices be heard on those bills.
Why have two separate individuals made reference that our position on the gun bills may negatively affect a possible Salary Bill?
So as President of the Senate states, his fundamental beliefs are deciding factors as to whether a statutory responsibility can even be assigned a late bill status? Why is that? And is it sound governance?
Was it not the actions of the majority leadership to place the salary proposal in the status of being a late bill, considering the Salary Commission has presented findings each of the last 3 years?
This Salary Commission was established by Governor Ritter to base decisions on quantifiable data, and the enabling law that was signed by the governor states that the commission shall be appointed by the Senate President and House Speaker. It states they shall serve for a period of four years. If the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House have the authority to appoint the members, why did the President of the Senate allow these Commission members to invest so much time following the statutory intent to only have him decide he is fundamentally opposed? Why did he become fundamentally oppose?, Was it after the sheriffs expressed their opposition to many of the gun bills?
If it is the statutory responsibility of the legislature to adjust these salaries, and the Democrat leadership appointed the membership of the Commission and their findings are fact based, why would the legislature not enter discussions and meet their statutory responsibility?
These are questions that should be answered by those that are statutorily responsible for this process. As I have said it has no impact on me personally; but I am concerned and believe the process set up in 2006 and why the Commission was formed are important enough to have these issues addressed by those responsible for the final decisions.
 
Is this because somebody got some balilout money and is now a Puppet?




>
> From the Owners of McMillan Mfg in Phoenix, Arizona
>
> McMillan Mfg in Phoenix, Arizona, was contacted by Bank of America and
> informed that they will no longer be allowed to use their services ( Bank of
> America ) because they are in the firearms business and support the second
> amendment.
>
> McMillan Fiberglass Stocks, McMillan Firearms Manufacturing, McMillan Group
> International have been collectively banking with Bank of America for 12
> years.
>
> Today Mr. Ray Fox, Senior Vice President, Market Manager, Business Banking,
> Global Commercial Banking (Bank of America) came to my office.
>
> He scheduled the meeting as an "account analysis" meeting in order to
> evaluate the two lines of credit we have with them.
>
> He spent 5 minutes talking about how McMillan has changed in the last 5
> years and has become more of a firearms manufacturer than a supplier of
> accessories.
>
> At this point I interrupted him and asked "Can I possibly save you some time
> so that you don't waste your breath? What you are going to tell me is that
> because we are in the firearms manufacturing business you no longer want my
> business." "That is correct", he says.
>
> I replied "That is okay, we will move our accounts as soon as possible. We
> can find a 2nd Amendment friendly bank that will be glad to have our
> business. You won't mind if I tell the NRA, SCI and everyone one I know that
> BofA is not firearms-industry friendly?"
>
> "You have to do what you must", he said.
> "So you are telling me this is a politically motivated decision, is that
> right? Mr. Fox confirmed that it was. At which point I told him that the meeting
>
> was over and there was nothing left for him to say.
>
> I think it is important for all Americans who believe in and support our 2nd
> amendment "right to keep and bear arms" should know when a business does not
> support these rights.
>
>
> What you do with that knowledge is up to you. When I don't agree with a
> business' political position, I cannot, in good conscience support them.
>
> We will soon no longer be accepting Bank of America credit cards as payment
> for our products.
>
>
> I am fine with you re-posting it. . . . . . . . Thank for your support.
>
> Kelly D. McMillan
> Director of Operations
> McMillan Group International, LLC
> 623-582-9635<tel:623-582-9635>
> 1638 W Knudsen Dr
> Phoenix, Arizona 85027
> McMillan Integrity-Global Vision
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I urge all of my friends to do the same! If I could only get everybody to stand up for the Constitution of The United States we might not have this problem!
>
>
 
I just have to ask this question.

How can a person that wares this countries uniform, that talks about the flag of this country and his/her pride. Then talk of their distrust of the government. Condemn our president and talk of the need to use firearms against that same government. In most countries that is treason..Myself..I just don't understand it. Pride and hate all in the same breath

In the words of a John Cougar Mellencamp song "Ain't That America". I believe it all boils down to the fact that we have an imperfect government made up of imperfect people. Human nature is still human nature and all humans are susceptible to corruption and being a part of the government allows easy access to two of the strongest forces of corruption: power and wealth.

I take pride in the principles this nation was founded upon but at the same time I am realistic enough to realize that the actions and decisions of the people who work in the government are not always in line with those principles. I love my God, my family, my dogs and some friends unconditionally, the government is not in any of those categories. Only a fool is blindly devoted to any human institution. I live, pay taxes and vote in the United States of America and I can defend or criticize the government and hold on to your hat...... I can do both in the same breath if I feel like it.
 
I'll agree it isn't always fair or right. In fact it rarely is. Dirty pool and under the table antics are not limited to any one branch of our government. Heck even in the private sector.
 
I love my Country! I do not love my Government! Last week our State Government (D) Decided not to let the public comment on the issues at hand. Everyone who attended from across the State was told their voice would not be heard. Only "experts" and they were limited and hand picked and were held to 3 min. This has never happened before! We are suppose to have a voice and our representatives did this State a huge disservice. And I am suppose to love my government. Take a few minutes if you really care and watch this interview with a local Sheriff from the Springs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSeSC0ZqWc&feature=youtu.be [1]

I heard 1,000 people showed up wanting to testify at that hearing. Chaos.
 
Bank of America has given it's own testimony as what kind of bank they are! If it were me I would have gone somewhere else any way. It will be a a boon to their business and if BofA gets smaller, and less important, it will serve us all. I am waiting to see somebody reject Dupont, Dynamint Noble, or even BP, on moralistic grounds! But that would cost the bank to much money.
 
Lets see Dem. talk tough for awhile. Crazy gun owners pay three time what guns and ammo are worth. Nra gets a bunch of members. Bunch of money gets put into politicians accounts. Problem goes away:thumbsup: Gov't just like the WWE FAKE:) Anyone watched the new news channel RT? Not to bad kinda makes you think.
 
I was pretty tempted to sell my AR. I'm sure I could've gotten over 3k for it. Then another close to 2k in ammo and mags. I'm glad I bought my toys when I did, because I knew they would be trying something. So as it stands now, nothing's really going to happen then?
 
I became a Life Member of the NRA a month ago. I haven't seen a thing in my mail box.
 
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