Dust Bowl on PBS

the ag world will not keep themselves in check. the general public does not look at the world as we do. we are out in nature trying to enjoy it. sadly most just view it on tv or computers. :(
 
duckn66 said:
I sure hope that Washington is taking real notice of what is happening in the plains states right now. It's bad. The winds here in KS have been kicking 30 plus in the afternoons and dust is in the air. Not so bad in east KS that you can see it but your eyes sure know it's there.

I can wash my truck and within hours there is a film of dust already formed on it.
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One factor with the drought is that in our area and even on no-till grounds the top 2 inches became very loose and that is what blew even on ground that had not been worked. One of the reasons being that the lack of moisture caused very little crop residue to be returned to the ground cover and much topsoil was left exposed. All can be managed too of course.

Further evidence and support for no-till and strip till is to maintain a much higher amount of residue as carry over in drought years like this.
 
I listened to this program on my Iphone yesterday, and the similarities between the dust bowl of the 1930s and today are very alarming. I managed to get part 2 on our DVR, so I am looking forward to finishing the show.

Scary stuff!
 
UGUIDE said:
My take-away after watching both parts of the movie was this. Thanks God the government stepped in and did not let this part of the country become another desert in the US. IMO it is a great conservation success story and shows how important the roll of FSA and NRCS has become in our environment.

There sure is no shortage of negative banter on this site about governmental bashing but an objective look would prove otherwise.

The show proved that drought will happen and tillage does not play well with it.

It is clear that we have a long ways to go to care for our soils and it has also proven that land owners cannot be left to take care of the resource themselves but actually, yes, needs government intervention on the public's behalf to be better stewards of the resources they have at their disposal.
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Respectfully, you are leaving out the fact that before the Dust Bowl of the 1930's ( around 1917, check the transcript to be sure) the government interfered by artificially setting the price for wheat at above market value, in order to give the farmers an incentive to produce more wheat, which they did, however the law of unintended consequences kicked in. The government is interfering today by creating an artificial market for ethanol, a market that could not and would not exist without government funding, tax breaks and government regulations requiring it's use, and that same law of unintended consequences has not gone away.

Maybe the government would not have needed to ride to the rescue of the farmers if they hadn't played on the farmers desire to get ahead in the first place? Just as the government agencies are doing now with ethanol. Farmers see they can make more money raising corn for ethanol than they can by putting the land in CRP and they are "saving the planet" in the process. So they plow up the grassland and plant corn.

IF it's not too late already, let's get the government out of the ethanol business and get real conservationists involved in helping the farmers and landowners take a balanced approach to land management.

If Santa Clause is listening, I would love to see all the government funding for ethanol, wind and solar, redirected to CRP and conservation groups like Pheasants Forever. HoHoHo!!
 
Drove by a spot I got permission to hunt last year, basically a drainage ditch and 10 acre slew. Shot 4 birds there last year. Hunted it a couple weeks ago and most of the slew had been cut and baled.Still managed to put up two roosters and shot one. There was a willow thicket left and just a little slew then. When I went by today they were just finishing up tearing out the thicket and rest of slew. :(the tears are getting real.
 
Dog Gun Time said:
Respectfully, you are leaving out the fact that before the Dust Bowl of the 1930's ( around 1917, check the transcript to be sure) the government interfered by artificially setting the price for wheat at above market value, in order to give the farmers an incentive to produce more wheat, which they did, however the law of unintended consequences kicked in. The government is interfering today by creating an artificial market for ethanol, a market that could not and would not exist without government funding, tax breaks and government regulations requiring it's use, and that same law of unintended consequences has not gone away.

Maybe the government would not have needed to ride to the rescue of the farmers if they hadn't played on the farmers desire to get ahead in the first place? Just as the government agencies are doing now with ethanol. Farmers see they can make more money raising corn for ethanol than they can by putting the land in CRP and they are "saving the planet" in the process. So they plow up the grassland and plant corn.

IF it's not too late already, let's get the government out of the ethanol business and get real conservationists involved in helping the farmers and landowners take a balanced approach to land management.

If Santa Clause is listening, I would love to see all the government funding for ethanol, wind and solar, redirected to CRP and conservation groups like Pheasants Forever. HoHoHo!!
Click to expand...

That is true. the need for wheat during WW I was the factor. Problem was when the war was over, the farmers kept on going, as the price was going down, they planted more wheat! At that time the government tried to pay them to do the precusor to soil bank. It fell on deaf ears, because they thought the wheat market would go up, and "the rain follows the plow". Had the bumper crop of all time in 1931, price was .17 per bushel. Things would be better in a year. Rain will fall, market will increase, despite the whole world was in a catacylismic depression. It didn't for at least 5 years. Where are we now? We are pleading to farmers to enroll or re-enroll in CRP, met with resistence to say the least. It required the county ag boards to take a strap to these guys in the 30's, make it illegal to turn the sod. I agree that ethanol can go on a fast horse out of town, not completely sure that wind power may be more harmful, sure is visually. Ethanol has no value to consumers at all. But is sure makes politicians happy! My vote is to forget CRP, let it grow up in weeds like soil bank, no maintence, no weird fescue, no european brome, just ragweed, sunflowers, iron weeds, pay the same, and keep the tractors out.
 
Amazingly simple how a clean sustainable water supply maintained by a balanced eco system equals life. Man, with all his advanced knowledge, they call it science, can rise above, and in the name of greed rape the land. Left behind is death and destruction. It seems that mankind is smarter than God.
Gone are the days of the 80 acre farm family, hello 8000 acre mega-farmer and his modern practice. Whether its Africa, China, South America or here across the plains, the result is the same. Lets make that last dollar, even if it kills us.
Hats off to the farmer that understands and practices conservation. Too bad many don't. Just glad my 80 is in crp...gonna stay that way as long as I survive.
 
duckn66 said:
I sure hope that Washington is taking real notice of what is happening in the plains states right now. It's bad. The winds here in KS have been kicking 30 plus in the afternoons and dust is in the air. Not so bad in east KS that you can see it but your eyes sure know it's there.

I can wash my truck and within hours there is a film of dust already formed on it.
Click to expand...

They will...when it reaches Washington, and or, affects their financial gain.
 
Last edited:
Posted this on the South Dakota forum in response to an article in the Mitchell paper about declining pheasant numbers and loss of habitat. It's a good read for those of you who have not visited that thread. The Dust Bowl is a very good program for those who haven't seen it. I pheasant hunt in eastern Colorado and many areas are so dry it looks like we ARE headed for another dust bowl. The areas with grass cover are still okay. But many areas are so overgrazed that now, with a couple years of drought, it is nothing but dirt. The creek beds and stock ponds are all completely dry. We just keep using the life out of the land. Here is my post:


I am a former wildlife biologist and the best single item I had to study in college was a book on land ethics. I wish everyone, hunter and farmer alike, would read Aldo Leopold's A Sand County Almanac. Whether you are a hunter in Michigan who "owns" a "40", a Texas rancher who "owns" a 10,000 acre spread or a South Dakota farmer who "owns" a bunch of land to grow corn on, we never OWN the land... We are just borrowing it from the next generation. We need to care for it with that perspective.

I am also a staunch conservative and I totally agree with the poster who said that caring about environmental issues doesn't make you a left wing nut or a commie. I just believe that we are an arrogant species and we do a lot of things to our world that are not in our long-term best interest. We DO chase the almighty dollar at the expense of everything else. But we do need to make a living and farmers are no exception. I do not in any way think that "profit" is a bad word. However, the problem with farming and the profitability of farming is not that they don't farm enough acres, it's in large part the government subsidies they are mandated/enticed/convinced to follow.

We are hearing now of the "milk cliff" along with the fiscal cliff, that milk prices will go up to $7+ a gallon. Guess what? That is probably what they should be because subsidies have kept mile prices artificially low for a long time. Milk prices haven't risen hardly at all since about 1978 and the profits of dairy producers have followed. It is not a free enterprise supply/demand system at all. If it were, we wouldn't have needed government "food pyramid" to tell us to eat all that grain so farmers could sell the over abundance they were producing.

Ms. Richardson (in the article) is pretty single-minded. She states we have to find a balance between feeding the world (quite an arrogant statement in itself!) and 'recreation', showing her total disregard for the fact that wildlife populations (not just hunting "recreation") are an indicator of a healthy landscape. Row crop from horizon to horizon is not the indicator of a healthy landscape...it is an indicator of an extremely inefficient (over the long-term) use of land to feed people. Or perhaps, given our current obesity rates, a sign we are producing too much food. Funny how much corn is used to produce addictive junk food that keep us coming back for more so more and more profits can be made...so much for "feeding the world".

The earth doesn't care if we're here or not. It will go on as long as it is supposed to go on and time will eventually heal the scars of human existence. However, OUR quality of life is determined by what we do and how we use the land. I think it is best for everyone to take a long term view.

I'll get down now...happy New Year everyone!
 
birddog456 said:
Amazingly simple how a clean sustainable water supply maintained by a balanced eco system equals life. Man, with all his advanced knowledge, they call it science, can rise above, and in the name of greed rape the land. Left behind is death and destruction. It seems that mankind is smarter than God.
Gone are the days of the 80 acre farm family, hello 8000 acre mega-farmer and his modern practice. Whether its Africa, China, South America or here across the plains, the result is the same. Lets make that last dollar, even if it kills us.
Hats off to the farmer that understands and practices conservation. Too bad many don't. Just glad my 80 is in crp...gonna stay that way as long as I survive.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head with the word "balanced". The science and knowledge is only part of the formula. Wisdom, honesty and good judgement are required as well.
 
marshrat said:
Posted this on the South Dakota forum in response to an article in the Mitchell paper about declining pheasant numbers and loss of habitat. It's a good read for those of you who have not visited that thread. The Dust Bowl is a very good program for those who haven't seen it. I pheasant hunt in eastern Colorado and many areas are so dry it looks like we ARE headed for another dust bowl. The areas with grass cover are still okay. But many areas are so overgrazed that now, with a couple years of drought, it is nothing but dirt. The creek beds and stock ponds are all completely dry. We just keep using the life out of the land. Here is my post:


I am a former wildlife biologist and the best single item I had to study in college was a book on land ethics. I wish everyone, hunter and farmer alike, would read Aldo Leopold's A Sand County Almanac. Whether you are a hunter in Michigan who "owns" a "40", a Texas rancher who "owns" a 10,000 acre spread or a South Dakota farmer who "owns" a bunch of land to grow corn on, we never OWN the land... We are just borrowing it from the next generation. We need to care for it with that perspective.

I am also a staunch conservative and I totally agree with the poster who said that caring about environmental issues doesn't make you a left wing nut or a commie. I just believe that we are an arrogant species and we do a lot of things to our world that are not in our long-term best interest. We DO chase the almighty dollar at the expense of everything else. But we do need to make a living and farmers are no exception. I do not in any way think that "profit" is a bad word. However, the problem with farming and the profitability of farming is not that they don't farm enough acres, it's in large part the government subsidies they are mandated/enticed/convinced to follow.

We are hearing now of the "milk cliff" along with the fiscal cliff, that milk prices will go up to $7+ a gallon. Guess what? That is probably what they should be because subsidies have kept mile prices artificially low for a long time. Milk prices haven't risen hardly at all since about 1978 and the profits of dairy producers have followed. It is not a free enterprise supply/demand system at all. If it were, we wouldn't have needed government "food pyramid" to tell us to eat all that grain so farmers could sell the over abundance they were producing.

Ms. Richardson (in the article) is pretty single-minded. She states we have to find a balance between feeding the world (quite an arrogant statement in itself!) and 'recreation', showing her total disregard for the fact that wildlife populations (not just hunting "recreation") are an indicator of a healthy landscape. Row crop from horizon to horizon is not the indicator of a healthy landscape...it is an indicator of an extremely inefficient (over the long-term) use of land to feed people. Or perhaps, given our current obesity rates, a sign we are producing too much food. Funny how much corn is used to produce addictive junk food that keep us coming back for more so more and more profits can be made...so much for "feeding the world".

The earth doesn't care if we're here or not. It will go on as long as it is supposed to go on and time will eventually heal the scars of human existence. However, OUR quality of life is determined by what we do and how we use the land. I think it is best for everyone to take a long term view.

I'll get down now...happy New Year everyone!
Click to expand...

Great post Marshrat.:10sign: To bad we still haven't found a way to place an economic value on clean water, a flight of geese, a flushing quail or a mighty oak tree. If we could maybe the California grizzly would still exist on the banks of the Tulare basin and cotton could grow elsewhere.
 
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