Most of the crippling I've witnessed involves shooting at birds either out-of-range or at a distance the hunter is not capable of figuring the proper lead. If you can't hit a clays crosser at 50 yards, how do you think you can hit a pheasant at that distance? I don't hunt as much WIA or GMA's as I used to, but saw a lot of hunters shooting at any rooster that gets up in front of them, even it its 60 yards or more. The problem is a lack of discipline. The same logic applies to those shooting sub gauges. I hear the 28 shooters telling me how far out they kill birds with their pea shooters, but never how many birds get wounded and lost. Dirty Harry said; "A man's got to know his limitations". Those are great rules to live by, and especially when it comes to cleanly taking the birds. Hunting in the bitter cold/snow/wind last week in ND made me glad I had a 12 ga. No lost birds, and no shots taken over 35 yards.
Do you take a poke at the long range birds ?
- Thread starter McFarmer
- Start date
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I’m not the best shot, I admit, but I do shoot clays 5-6 times in August/September before I head out Sharptail/hun hunting, which is usually 13-15 hunting days in September…usually with a buddy at a time, sometimes 2 buddies. I start pheasant in SD the 3rd Saturday in October, some solo, some with 1-2 pals, some trips it’s 4-6 guys, like my last trip that I came back from about 8 days ago. Bottom line, I suspect many guys I hunt with, or around, haven’t shot since the last time they were out hunting…last year, 2-3 years ago, or 5-10 years ago. Obviously there’s some poor shooting going on, and some poor shot choices going on, etc…blinding flash of the obvious. Shooting skill to me trumps gauge selected…as does shot choices…good shooters taking wise shots minimize cripples, big time. And grabbing a gun that fits great, and feels great, that you’re confident in is huge, IMO…whatever works for you…I hope I live long enough that each guy that I’m hunting with/around understand chokes, ammo, etc…
Bob Peters
Well-known member
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Seems to me most of the guys touting good experiences with the 28 tend to qualify their results with ranges within 30-35, maybe 40 yards, maybe there are some suggesting any distance…I don’t recall those…I have personally shot 6 now with the 28, and recovered them all, and like I’ve said, that certainly doesn’t make a sample size…and I’d say they’ve all been well within 30-35 yards…I would say it seems like lots of 28 gauge shooters feel like its killing efficacy is right up there with bigger gauges as long as shots taken are reasonable…I can’t recall shooters here or from other sources, like personal life, that claim the 28 is great at 45, 50 yards or greater on a consistent basis…maybe they’re out there…maybe I’m forgetting…it does seem most 28 shooters do tighten up their chokes, that’s something I’ve always been advised by experienced shooters. Do what works for you…I do enjoy carrying lighter, more svelte guns as I get older…but not if I can’t shoot them well and put birds in the bag…I despise losing birds…
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
Keep in mind who you’re dealing with here…I’m the guy promoting mini-vans as the ultimate hunting rig…love my Sienna’s! Rip the 2nd and 3rd row seats out (or fold flat), throw down a 4’ x 8’ piece of plywood, and walla, room for 4 large crates and more room to spare that never gets used! I grew up in Hopkins, MN, home to the Outdoorsman gun shop…I can only imagine what those guys that worked there feared everyday…ME! Once I was allowed to bike there…age 11, I’d guess?…it wasn’t quite daily, but close…OMG. I started selling guns at 16, was hired on my birthday…legal age to work in a retail establishment…Total Sports, it was called…I have always enjoyed guns…kinda wish they were just a tool to me…none of my hunting pals are subsumed or in love with guns the way I am…I’ve always been under their spell…especially when combined with dogs and some good habitat…that’s Nirvana to me. Back to the vans…easy access for old, arthritic dogs.. side doors slide open, and it’s perfect for Lena…and shortly, Peggy…only thing the truck accomplishes is clearance…which is a big deal at times…but I could figure out a work around if need be. I have never wanted to be part of the in-crowd, part of the pack, if that makes sense…I see the big, shiny expensive trucks, the orvis-looking dudes that pop out of them with the most current equipment, etc, and I go the other way…I’d prefer to not even be recognized as a bird hunter…kinda fly under the radar…but that’s just me.
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airmedic1
Well-known member
I just don't shoot at birds much farther than 25-30 yards and I know what that distance looks like. I've seen lots of guys shooting at birds farther out than that but they seldom connect solid enough to bring the bird to hand, they just drop a leg or break a wing and get away!
I think we owe it to the birds to cleanly harvest them and it's a very, very small percentage of hunters that can routinely harvest a bird at 50 yards. Most guys are just upland sky busters!
I think we owe it to the birds to cleanly harvest them and it's a very, very small percentage of hunters that can routinely harvest a bird at 50 yards. Most guys are just upland sky busters!
airmedic1
Well-known member
In 2005 I raced the Leadville 100 mountain bike race. Four of us took a Sienna to Leadville to pre-ride the course. We put 4 bikes on the roof, loaded the back with gear and there was plenty of room for two 6'4" guys on the inside plus we averaged right at 25mpg driving 85 on the Interstate!
I was divorced at the time and came back home and told my GF I was going to buy one! She said NO! She wasn't riding in a minivan. I should have bought it!
John Singer
Well-known member
I have a copy of The Shotgun Book by Jack O'Connor. Chapter 16 is entitled: Guns and Loads for Pheasants.
It is an interesting read. The last paragraph is relevant to this discussion.
It is an interesting read. The last paragraph is relevant to this discussion.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Yesterday I had an extra coat on as windchill was -4, I had a headband on which further reduced my hearing, but wind at 15 and gusting to 22 did most of my hearing in…I shot 4 birds, 2 were at extremely close range when they flushed and I hit them within 15 yards, the other 2 were around 30…all lively cripples, all recovered thanks to my dogs. Shooting 12 gauge with IC tube, 1.25 oz of lead #5’s at 1330 fps. Making good shots, regardless of gauge, trumps whether you’re shooting 1.25 oz or 1 oz…215 pellets vs 170 pellets, assuming 5’s…I’d rather center the bird with 170 pellets vs make fringe shots with 215 pellets, like I did yesterday. Best yet, center the bird with 215 pellets. With 4” of slightly crusty snow mixed into the grass, the walking was a bit tougher than normal…I did 3.5 miles…just not getting on the birds, but “it is what it is”…my buddy had similar experience, but it was a good hunt…coldest hunt of the season…I don’t mind wind, but I hate losing my hearing…or much of it. Did miss a longish shot early on, and had 2 roosters flush at my feet, and I vacillated on which to shoot at, and that pause made a 15 yard shot a 35 yard shot once they caught that wind…whiff! My pup did great, had a nice point and 3 recoveries, and hunted 100% of the time with no give in her….
Gatzby
Well-known member
Quite a few years ago I had a AWD Astro van WT (no windows or back seats) 4.3 liter v6 with tow package. This thing was a machine! I added 2# lift blocks to the rear axle and after market torsion bars to allow bigger tires. Throw a couple dirt bikes in and head to OK for an enduro, toss some dog crates in and head to SD, or tow the boat to the lake. I need to find a picture! it was really cool, well as cool as a minivan can be. 300,000 miles and a small buck sent it to the scrap yard. I really miss VANna white but she probably is better in my memories than she was in real life.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
First bird flushed at 3’, maybe 4…took forever to get on it…shot at 25 or 30 yards? Was taken by surprise, took a second to ID, low flyer heading into the wind…
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
If the planets line up just right (at least mostly a crosser with vitals exposed; not close to a straight-away; flying over light-ish cover) I'll take a 50-yd shot. History has shown I either get the bird or miss cleanly. Those shots are uncommon.
A somewhat more common & more important scenario is I've wounded a bird with a poor (but closer) 1st/2nd shot. It's hunting. It happens. It's important to me to at least TRY to bring down a wounded bird at long range in THIS situation.
But regardless of WHY I'm taking a long poke, I feel I'm responsible for having a gun/load/choke combination that's capable, whether I connect on a high percentage of them or not. In my case, that's a load with at least 150 pellets of #5 lead or #4 bismuth & a MOD or FULL choke.
I don't feel significantly handicapped by this setup on closer shots, which obviously make up the vast majority of my shooting. Occasionally the full choke hits a close bird hard in the hind end, not bringing it to the ground immediately, but these birds still end up killed.
A somewhat more common & more important scenario is I've wounded a bird with a poor (but closer) 1st/2nd shot. It's hunting. It happens. It's important to me to at least TRY to bring down a wounded bird at long range in THIS situation.
But regardless of WHY I'm taking a long poke, I feel I'm responsible for having a gun/load/choke combination that's capable, whether I connect on a high percentage of them or not. In my case, that's a load with at least 150 pellets of #5 lead or #4 bismuth & a MOD or FULL choke.
I don't feel significantly handicapped by this setup on closer shots, which obviously make up the vast majority of my shooting. Occasionally the full choke hits a close bird hard in the hind end, not bringing it to the ground immediately, but these birds still end up killed.
Goosemaster
Well-known member
I don't really pay any attention to this ballistic stuff, speed, all that. I have a lot of old shells I don't spend a whole lot of money on ammo I don't buy that expensive stuff.
Goosemaster
Well-known member
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
Let’s see that beer stein!!!!
Drew
Well-known member
Man oh man, I didn't realize how many passionate folks are on this forum. Thanks for not getting angry at me!! Lol.
This post was pretty entertaining, much like a soap opera. I can't believe that so many people never lose a bird when they are hunting. So, do you count a leg dropped bird as a miss or a lost bird?? I consider myself a fair shot but I do lose a bird once in a while.
As far as whether I would take a long shot (over 40 yards). The only time that I might take that shot is if I started shooting at them closer and miss, or drop a leg. Perhaps it's adrenaline? Perhaps it out of fear that I have hit the bird already and that sinking feeling in my gut when I feel that I am not being a good sportsman by not trying to kill the bird?? Perhaps it that I don't want to let me dog down?? I'm not sure whether it's ethical or not but I will tend to shoot a third time if I've missed twice.
This post was pretty entertaining, much like a soap opera. I can't believe that so many people never lose a bird when they are hunting. So, do you count a leg dropped bird as a miss or a lost bird?? I consider myself a fair shot but I do lose a bird once in a while.
As far as whether I would take a long shot (over 40 yards). The only time that I might take that shot is if I started shooting at them closer and miss, or drop a leg. Perhaps it's adrenaline? Perhaps it out of fear that I have hit the bird already and that sinking feeling in my gut when I feel that I am not being a good sportsman by not trying to kill the bird?? Perhaps it that I don't want to let me dog down?? I'm not sure whether it's ethical or not but I will tend to shoot a third time if I've missed twice.
airmedic1
Well-known member
I see a bunch of posts where the author says “I either hit them or it’s a clean miss” when they shoot at 50 yards! How do you know it’s a clean miss? Did you ever consider that you might of hit them with a pellet or two but not enough to rock them or bring them down?
That’s why I never shoot a covey rise on quail. When people blaze away on the covey rise it’s almost guaranteed that one or more receive at least a pellet or two. You know that happens when you don’t see a bird fall but the dog brings back one anyway.
I’ve lost several roosters this year, way more than previous years. I attribute it to several cause, the most prevalent is it’s been hot and very dry, followed by really thick cover and a young and inexperienced dog!
If I knock a rooster down and can’t find it, I add that bird in my daily bag limit.
I shoot a SxS or an O/U and I occasionally wish I had a third shot when I drop a leg and the bird keeps flying so I try so watch where they land and go over there and look for that wounded bird if I can.
That’s why I never shoot a covey rise on quail. When people blaze away on the covey rise it’s almost guaranteed that one or more receive at least a pellet or two. You know that happens when you don’t see a bird fall but the dog brings back one anyway.
I’ve lost several roosters this year, way more than previous years. I attribute it to several cause, the most prevalent is it’s been hot and very dry, followed by really thick cover and a young and inexperienced dog!
If I knock a rooster down and can’t find it, I add that bird in my daily bag limit.
I shoot a SxS or an O/U and I occasionally wish I had a third shot when I drop a leg and the bird keeps flying so I try so watch where they land and go over there and look for that wounded bird if I can.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
After shooting at thousands & thousands of birds over 45 years, I can tell when a pheasant is hit by a pellet or two. One or two #4 bismuth (or lead #5) to the body at 50 yds is a big deal to a pheasant. Deeper penetration & 40% more cross sectional area than a #6, thereby inflicting considerably more damage. Appropriate ammunition is key.
Many relatively inexperienced hunters don't KNOW their shells are inappropriate at the distances they shoot, especially on straight-away shots, which are frequent. #6 lead? #4 steel? They don't take you very far (reliably) on straight-aways.
remy3424
Well-known member
My thinking is that experienced hunters usually only make a "clean miss", when they know they weren't "on the bird" when they pulled, a real close shot before the pattern opened-up or the screamers that the lead is so hard to get right (for me anyway). I don't often get those "screamer" opportunities these days. Most of my misses are first shots that I squeezed off a fraction of a second too soon and hadn't quite pulled thru the bird.