Big changes for your South Dakota hunting
- Thread starter onpoint
- Start date
UplandHntr
Well-known member
" Out of $1.3 billion that comes into South Dakota in tourism annually, $250,000 is spent by pheasant hunters. "
This cant be right
This cant be right
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I agree 100%. There are roughly 100,000 non-resident licenses sold. If that number is correct then each non-res hunter spends only $25. I don't think so! Do the math, it doesn't add up. I'd say $250 million would be closer.
UGUIDE
Active member
Onpoint, interesting read.
OK so take record rainfalls in 2011 and birds statewide are down 46%. Now take record drought in 2012 and birds are up 18% state wide. Climate is the sole biggest driver in pheasant numbers first, then habitat.
The author infers that all the cover that was consumed this year due to dry conditions will continue in years to come. This is not even good speculation and might be borderline ridiculous.
This author, like many other writers, do not do a very good job of separating the climatological effects on pheasant numbers vs. changing landscape and other drivers we actually have some control over.
Given average SD climate conditions next year or the year after for that matter, SD could see significant bird number increases.
OK so take record rainfalls in 2011 and birds statewide are down 46%. Now take record drought in 2012 and birds are up 18% state wide. Climate is the sole biggest driver in pheasant numbers first, then habitat.
The author infers that all the cover that was consumed this year due to dry conditions will continue in years to come. This is not even good speculation and might be borderline ridiculous.
This author, like many other writers, do not do a very good job of separating the climatological effects on pheasant numbers vs. changing landscape and other drivers we actually have some control over.
Given average SD climate conditions next year or the year after for that matter, SD could see significant bird number increases.
onpoint
Active member
The only thing that worries me, is the burning of wet-lands and the tilling of them. Cattail slews are "The" best winter cover their is to save birds for spring breeding. If they continue to do so. It won't matter a whole hellofa lot what kind of climate change takes effect. If there is "Zero" pheasants that survive or near that. It could take years for any kind of recovery. Just drive around the state. Specially in the eastern half, this time of year. How much winter cover is there if you remove the cattail slews? Not a lot.
It's like all the CRP, WPA's Etc Emergency grazing/haying allowed on them is just the norm anymore. Just add it to the problem. That's where the author has it right IMO.
Another thing, if this drought continues. Those gambling and tilling this marginal land in hopes of recovering their losses of the last year. If it don't rain. They are only one step even further in the "Red". They spent all the money and time to raise more nothing. Then the possible income from some pay hunting. That's gone too.
Myself, I don't even know how they can till these wet-lands. In Northern Minnesota. If you even get caught driving your ATV in your own wet-lands on your own land. You will be ticketed by a conservation officer. Some folks who have a cabin on the lake just down the road. Had a CO drive in their yard. They had aquatic vegetation hanging on their ATV axe's. They were all ticketed. If we have such strict rules on it here in vacation/lake country. Why is it so ease to destroy entire wet-lands in farm country. I thought we had wet-lands protection laws to prevent this.
It's like all the CRP, WPA's Etc Emergency grazing/haying allowed on them is just the norm anymore. Just add it to the problem. That's where the author has it right IMO.
Another thing, if this drought continues. Those gambling and tilling this marginal land in hopes of recovering their losses of the last year. If it don't rain. They are only one step even further in the "Red". They spent all the money and time to raise more nothing. Then the possible income from some pay hunting. That's gone too.
Myself, I don't even know how they can till these wet-lands. In Northern Minnesota. If you even get caught driving your ATV in your own wet-lands on your own land. You will be ticketed by a conservation officer. Some folks who have a cabin on the lake just down the road. Had a CO drive in their yard. They had aquatic vegetation hanging on their ATV axe's. They were all ticketed. If we have such strict rules on it here in vacation/lake country. Why is it so ease to destroy entire wet-lands in farm country. I thought we had wet-lands protection laws to prevent this.
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moellermd
Super Moderator
For once we are in agreement. The amount of cattails being disked or cut is alarming.
reddog
Well-known member
moellermd
Super Moderator
Wow, we even reached a saturation point with you Mo?
Yes I am sure it is shocking. I just don't get the reasoning at this point. I have no problem tiling low spots in fields that are seasonally wet or wet 1 out of every 4 years. But guys are thinking that they will be able to farm sloughs that have been there for 20-30 years. The sloughs now have tile lines that are draining low spots from fields 5 miles away. Of course it is going to be wet. Even I think that sometimes farmers have to much time on there hands when you get early harvests.
mnmthunting
Banned
I can't see any long term crops in these tilled cattail areas. Snow melt and heavy rains will again cause sitting water. Even if just temporary the water will do great damage to crops. Heavy machinery to fertilize, herbicide, harvest. I don't think it will work?
Tile, with lift pumps, it's being done.
What we need is a bumper crop year. If corn goes from $7 a bushel to under $5 the marginal farming areas will go back into weeds and grass. The break even in corn is probably near $5 a bushel.
Tile, with lift pumps, it's being done.
What we need is a bumper crop year. If corn goes from $7 a bushel to under $5 the marginal farming areas will go back into weeds and grass. The break even in corn is probably near $5 a bushel.
Uncle Buck
New member
This is exactly what's going on. Last week they got out the matches---because they could.
One thing we are forgetting. The land will be included in the crop insurance program, win, lose, or draw. I never saw a crop insurance salesman that would exclude enrollable acres. They will get some economic gain from a failed crop. occassionaly a bumper crop, and you don't have put up with a conservation officer! Because it is "farmed wetlands".
I can't see any long term crops in these tilled cattail areas. Snow melt and heavy rains will again cause sitting water. Even if just temporary the water will do great damage to crops. Heavy machinery to fertilize, herbicide, harvest. I don't think it will work?
Tile, with lift pumps, it's being done.
What we need is a bumper crop year. If corn goes from $7 a bushel to under $5 the marginal farming areas will go back into weeds and grass. The break even in corn is probably near $5 a bushel.
I spent the summer 2 years ago running up and down I-35 from Kansas City to Minneapolis. That was a flood year. All a long the hiway there were depressions which used to be prairie potholes, with soybeans, or corn, beneath the surface. a lot of these were 10-40 acres in size. Farmed wetlands. They don't raise a pheasant, duck, or butterfly. Not that year, not any year, but they keep getting rounduped and planted. By the way, these were all done when corn was $1.80 per bushel! Why? Because the federal government gave them "equip" loans to do it. Now subsidizes the crop with crop insurance. Another 5 years, we will give them "equip" loans to rehab the wetland. More expensive, and not as good, as the former, but thats how we roll.
Funny Math
There is some funny math in that article. "Today, 55 percent of out-of-state hunters to South Dakota hunt private lands and stay in a hotel, according to figures compiled by the state. In the 2011 pheasant season, nonresident pheasant hunters outnumbered residents about 111,000 to 89,000." and only $250,000 is spent by pheasant hunters. Works out to about $2.25 per hunter!!
If a little over half paid land prices and stayed in a hotel and you assume the remaining out of state hunters drove in hunted land for free, didn't buy gas or eat at a restaurant and spent nothing then the average is $4.13 per hunter $250000/(55%*110,000) HOGWASH.
When I take my two sons each year it works out to about $2000 per 5 day trip when we hunt private fee land or about $650 per guy and that is way below average.
There is some funny math in that article. "Today, 55 percent of out-of-state hunters to South Dakota hunt private lands and stay in a hotel, according to figures compiled by the state. In the 2011 pheasant season, nonresident pheasant hunters outnumbered residents about 111,000 to 89,000." and only $250,000 is spent by pheasant hunters. Works out to about $2.25 per hunter!!
If a little over half paid land prices and stayed in a hotel and you assume the remaining out of state hunters drove in hunted land for free, didn't buy gas or eat at a restaurant and spent nothing then the average is $4.13 per hunter $250000/(55%*110,000) HOGWASH.
When I take my two sons each year it works out to about $2000 per 5 day trip when we hunt private fee land or about $650 per guy and that is way below average.
UGUIDE
Active member
It sure would appear as though Crop Insurance is RIPE for a re-work and also a good target to discontinue incentives to farm marginal acres when those dollars might be best used to get some conservation acres out of the marginal stuff.
Seems like a wonderful opportunity for the taxpayer, the markets and to keep crop acres down and preserve a good market for commodites and maybe even reduce the deficit.
Seems like a wonderful opportunity for the taxpayer, the markets and to keep crop acres down and preserve a good market for commodites and maybe even reduce the deficit.
roycefromrc
New member
Exactly,haymaker.Thats why they disc it up.
I wrote a report back in early November. We do a lot of scouting to find birds and saw the fewest in our 12 years in SD. While that was disappointing, the extreme loss of habitat was distressing. Habitat, or lack thereof will determine bird numbers. I am hoping for a wet spring (not to flood nests) that may bring back some of the burnt off/tilled cattails. Unless this somehow turns around, the
Future for this magnificent bird will be tough. My son and I will be back in late December as always. We will give it our best, enjoy our time in the field, and try to make our opportunities count. This forum has been great to follow, and appreciate the good tips, reports, and interesting characters! 16 days & counting!
Future for this magnificent bird will be tough. My son and I will be back in late December as always. We will give it our best, enjoy our time in the field, and try to make our opportunities count. This forum has been great to follow, and appreciate the good tips, reports, and interesting characters! 16 days & counting!