Best breed for finding cripples

I've hunted w/ a lot of breeds that've been fabulous finders/retrievers of downed birds (crippled or not). I firmly believe almost any well-bred hunting breed, who hunts wild pheasants a lot & who's been trained effectively will be essentially the same in this department. But WITHOUT good breeding, experience &/or training, are some traits of one breed going to shine brighter than that of another? Probably. The average lab is probably more likely to naturally retrieve. Many breeds hunt "dead" in my mind equally well. I've never seen a breed mark & attack a downed pheasant quicker than a springer. Of course, your average flusher isn't very likely to point a holed-up cripple. ;) I just think all good pheasant dogs are phenomenal. And with breeding, experience & training....breed doesn't matter. My springers fit my family/home & hunting style perfectly.
 
I think its an individual quality. Ive seen different breeds excel at it. Its rare to see in my circle of friends. I cant think of one dog that is great at it alive right now. I've seen way too many birds lost in years past and now I only shoot when they are close and I can blister them good. Same with most of my experienced friends. We just got sick of losing them. This year we've only lost 1 or 2 birds. I have no problem holding my shots and have done it plenty over the last two weekends.
 
"Experience" is relative. I've heard/read that the average "experienced" pheasant dog loses 10%-17% of downed roosters. I don't know if those claims include only wild ones, pen-reared, a mixture, or what. But the guys who I consider experienced pheasant hunters (knowledgeable & have hunted wild birds a lot) have dogs that lose way, way, WAY LESS than that. Several different breeds. Granted, a hunter's level of expertise comes into play too, with the ability to obtain & make good shots, as opposed to a lot of birds not hit very hard. But once a well-bred dog is trained to expectations.....then birds, birds, birds.
 
A german wirehaired pointer or drahthaar.....it's not even a contest in the cripple finding business.....and I make it a point to get to the area of the fall and get the dog over there too....depending on how the sequence went down.
 
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When it comes to marking and recovering birds look no further than the entrants in the Retreiver Championship currently going on. Many breeds are eligible to compete but it’s almost all Labs and a few Golden
 
If you asked me to buy a bird tracking dog sight unseen, it would have to be a drahthaar. Reason being, those dog's aren't even bred unless the dam and sire have shown ability to track. Highest chance of success, if you ask me.

Tracking is different than marking. Labs take the cake there, no contest. A seasoned lab with for sure track, but tracking is an independent function. Drahts certainly tend to be more independent than labs, for better or worse lol.
 
mutthunt said:
If you asked me to buy a bird tracking dog sight unseen, it would have to be a drahthaar. Reason being, those dog's aren't even bred unless the dam and sire have shown ability to track. Highest chance of success, if you ask me.

Tracking is different than marking. Labs take the cake there, no contest. A seasoned lab with for sure track, but tracking is an independent function. Drahts certainly tend to be more independent than labs, for better or worse lol.
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Thank you, I think you made my point.
Cripples are rarely (if ever) dropped close. Usually they are the result of taking a shot longer than you probably should’ve and then they tend the sail out a ways. Wether it’s 50 yards or 300 yards the ability of a dog to proceed directly to the area of the fall greatly increases your odds of recovery over the dog that needs to be led or helped to the area of the fall and then proceed to hunt/trail.
While I think all dogs can learn to trail through hunting experience I don’t leave it to chance. Trailing is some thing I teach all my dogs. It’s fun to do and the dogs love it.
If we are talking about blood trailing a crippled deer I have no opinion as my dogs have never done.
 
Gatzby said:
Thank you, I think you made my point.
Cripples are rarely (if ever) dropped close. Usually they are the result of taking a shot longer than you probably should’ve and then they tend the sail out a ways. Wether it’s 50 yards or 300 yards the ability of a dog to proceed directly to the area of the fall greatly increases your odds of recovery over the dog that needs to be led or helped to the area of the fall and then proceed to hunt/trail.
While I think all dogs can learn to trail through hunting experience I don’t leave it to chance. Trailing is some thing I teach all my dogs. It’s fun to do and the dogs love it.
If we are talking about blood trailing a crippled deer I have no opinion as my dogs have never done.
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Teaching dogs to track is a blast, and also super useful.

I'd say that when pheasant hunting the upper midwest, my dogs are in thick enough cover that they only mark 50% of the time. And most birds are shot over points! I usually have to manually get my dog to the AOF, then let her do her thing.

If I ever get off my butt and work on video, last weekend I put a poor shot on a rooster in the middle of cattail hell. Two labs (and I really really like labs) made it to the AOF well before me. While they were actively searching, and the rooster jumped, tried to fly, and burrowed back down as I got close. No dogs saw this happen. I got Lena (the draht) on the scent and away she went. She made an 85 yard track and came back empty handed. I sent her again, this time she made a 100 yard track (had GPS on), and found the bird. He made it to the complete other side of the cattail slough! Our flanker saw her find him, couldn't believe it.
 
Brittany yields to no breed. Be surprised at how many birds are within 10 yards of where they went down. Dug deep into the bush.

If the bird is indeed running and you let the Brittany do their thing ... they will find the bird.

One key is the hunter/owner have the patience to let the dog do their thing. Take your time.

Years ago I was hunting with a group of guys that did not have much experience with bird dogs (or ones that could find birds). That day my Britt found two birds considered lost and had two other points on roosters that I reached down and picked up alive ... both wounded.
 
Gatzby said:
Thank you, I think you made my point.
Cripples are rarely (if ever) dropped close. Usually they are the result of taking a shot longer than you probably should’ve and then they tend the sail out a ways. Wether it’s 50 yards or 300 yards the ability of a dog to proceed directly to the area of the fall greatly increases your odds of recovery over the dog that needs to be led or helped to the area of the fall and then proceed to hunt/trail.
While I think all dogs can learn to trail through hunting experience I don’t leave it to chance. Trailing is some thing I teach all my dogs. It’s fun to do and the dogs love it.
If we are talking about blood trailing a crippled deer I have no opinion as my dogs have never done.
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Not the blood trailing crap again??????? :)
 
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Cute little story. I was on day 4 of a hunt a couple weeks ago. I dropped a bird in some cattails and the dog ended up not finding it. So we went to another field. After striking out we returned to the first field hoping to find the lost bird or possibly another one to finish out. We worked our way down and sure enough she found it. Let me back up a little bit back to when we were doing obedience classes , I would tell her touch and she would jump up and hit the palm of my hand with her nose. Anyway after finding that bird and delivering it she was pretty damn proud of herself. Unprompted she gives me the touch.
She's been a bit slow coming on but is starting to become pretty good little bird finder. We ended up losing a runner on some crusty snow the following day , the first of the trip. She went into the cattails. and I think he skirted the edge but I was pretty proud of her.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
I've hunted w/ a lot of breeds that've been fabulous finders/retrievers of downed birds (crippled or not). I firmly believe almost any well-bred hunting breed, who hunts wild pheasants a lot & who's been trained effectively will be essentially the same in this department. But WITHOUT good breeding, experience &/or training, are some traits of one breed going to shine brighter than that of another? Probably. The average lab is probably more likely to naturally retrieve. Many breeds hunt "dead" in my mind equally well. I've never seen a breed mark & attack a downed pheasant quicker than a springer. Of course, your average flusher isn't very likely to point a holed-up cripple. ;) I just think all good pheasant dogs are phenomenal. And with breeding, experience & training....breed doesn't matter. My springers fit my family/home & hunting style perfectly.
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Love springers.My dad as always had them, and goldens. They were family dogs, lived in the house.We never believed in kennels, or crates, or any type of confinement for that matter.My dad's best Springer was named Kate.
 
Well I can't help but agree with Golden Boy. Most years I never lose a bird and usually end up picking up more cripples that other people have lost so I end up in the positive column for the year. If I do lose one it is usually due to me taking a stupid shot or a total fluke.
 
Welcome to the site...we Golden lovers need to stick together! What can you tell us about your brown friend? First Golden? And you might tell us a little about yourself...
 
I believe it is a matter of working with the breed you have to develop that tracking/cripple finding ability. I will have to say all my brittany's have been very strong retrievers and have had a few that were stellar with cripples. I think it comes down to what you want out of the hunting partner you have and the time you put into working with them.

Best example of tracking and retrieving was in the early 90's my dad, college roommate and I were hunting in Iowa and i got a triple on roosters. 1 bird dead and 2 winged we were on private property and the adjacent property was a state park and the roosters were trying to make their escape to the park. After my brittany brought the dead bird to me we went back to location where the birds went down and she started tracking and stopped at the fence. I picked her up and told her to fetch, what seemed like 5 to 10 minutes passed and I can her her coming as she comes into sight she had a winged rooster in her mouth. I had crossed the fence to take the bird from her, I thought what they hell told her to fetch again and she turned and headed back into the park. The time seemed to double and I had started to walk up to where my dad was when my roommate yelled my name and said I don't believe this, Brooke, had another winged rooster in her mouth. I still get goosebumps talking about it, I never thought she could do that or how she knew but she brought back two cripples. Brooke was great at retrieving in the yard but in the field she didn't make her first retrieve until she was 2 years old, she would locate and just hold the bird. After she started to retrieve we only lost 1 cripple with her. I will add that some dogs just have that knack!
 
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I haven't read all the responses but... a cripple = retrieve, so a retriever breed? Tough to beat a Lab when retrieving. That's not saying a lab is or isn't the best pheasant dog, but at finding a downed bird, dead or alive, Lab.
 
Question was "best on down birds & cripples" which to me is almost entirely encompassed by marking a bird, getting to it, & finding it. Retrieving may have to be trained with some dogs & is the icing on the cake. A nicely finished retrieve is trained & is the ice cream on the same plate w/ the well-iced cake. An efficient, nicely finished retrieved comes with experience. But there are different approaches to marking & finding. Some take an orderly approach to it. Some, like me, allow a dog to mark a downed bird himself & immediately hit it like a ton of bricks. Or at least get to the drop site ASAP. Honestly, I've never seen a breed do this better & faster than a FBESS. And with wild birds in heavy cover, that's where finding & retrieving start. By getting there! Now, once a dog is in the drop zone, I believe any well-bred hunting breed will "find" equally well. A well-bred lab is probably most apt to then carry the bird to his owner (my definition of "retrieve") without much training. It's all about which aspects of the game are most important to you. For me, it's marking & getting there. I hunt a lot (relatively) in areas w/ birds, so my dogs get quite a lot of real-world experience (although not like a guide's dogs). The whole marking, getting there & finding thing improves immensely w/ experience, as dogs become more familiar with a wounded rooster's tricks. And then the retrieving thing. Whereas a lab may just do it, my dogs have to figure out they're tougher than a rooster & can carry it through 10" of snow & cattails. But it doesn't take long & once they learn things like that, they're 100% reliable. All well-bred hunting dogs have the tools to excel in this area. Training, hands-on experience, & personal preference will determine which adult dog is "best". The answer most people give (rightfully so) is, "My dog."
 
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