moellermd
Super Moderator
Interesting, When my parents did there calculations $160 CRP payment was the same as $3.60 corn. Your yields must be pretty bad or your CRP payment is really high.
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- Thread starter steele
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Interesting, When my parents did there calculations $160 CRP payment was the same as $3.60 corn. Your yields must be pretty bad or your CRP payment is really high.
CRP rent here is about the same as cash rent, the first year of the contract. Due to inflation by the 10th year of the contract CRP has fallen well short of cash rent. Beagle Bob, if you want to hunt CRP for free plan on CRP payments being about triple what they are now.
moellermd
Super Moderator
Yep it is fair to say that they would have been better off farming on shares for the next two years. There is money to be made by assuming risk. Plus who would not want to provide pheasant ground for an adorable son like me.
For fun we could do some math
80 acres with chemical, seed, and insurance is about 24000 according to Iowa State.
On a 50-50 split there share is 12000
A yield of 160 bu corn = 12800 bu, probably a low estimate.
For fun we will say they get $5 next year, you can contract 2011 corn for $5.40
Thats $64000 total or $32000 there share.
Minus expenses thats $20000 take home. In order to make the same money in CRP they would have to get $250 an acre.
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beaglebob1
New member
First off I never said Chris was being greedy.
I have paid to hunt with Uguide and going to do it again. Dont put words in my mouth.
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beaglebob1
New member
Sound like a bunch of libs wanting the goverment to give a hand out
Tax $ and 700.00 a gun is greed. If they take my taxes I should get to hunt for free. They dont like it then dont take my money. Welfare on a big scale
No libs here Bob. I am not going to assume the liability of having hunters on our land. The price paid is for what is in the contract, that does not include hunting rights. If hunting rights are going to be included then for me the rate needs to triple. I pay taxes too.
Only fair comparison of CRP yield to crop yield income is over a 10 year period. After the last corn spike of over 7.00, it took only a couple of seasons for us to get back to 3.00 +/- corn. So the numbers work in favor of crop yield today, how bout 2 years from now or 5 years. I'll wager that you could sell future delivery corn today, and buy it and deliver it at the time of delivery, and make money. That's what happened the last time. This market is being driven by uncovered speculators, just like oil, gold, countless other commodities, who reap huge profits, yet never sow a crop or harvest a bushel. In any case 3.00 or 4.00 corn doesn't pencil out. Just in, big yield expectations from South America, have pushed soybeans dramatically lower, what a surprise!
beaglebob1
New member
Then stop taking the goverment cheese. paying people not to produce is setting a bad precedent. I should not be paying taxes so you have bird habitat. The gov should just give me good hunting land and you should pay for it?? walks like a duck its a duck you get the jest..
moellermd
Super Moderator
I suppose I thought that because you said.
Am I missing something.
moellermd
Super Moderator
Yes a true comparison would need a little longer track record. The average price from 2007-2011 is about $4.00 depending on your basis. Before that we were closer to the $3s.
If you wanted to play the board I think you could lock in around five $5 until 2014, I think thats how far out they go.
Speculators are not the only one reaping huge profits. I know a lot of producers sitting on a fair amount of grain waiting to market it.
If you don't want CRP talk to someone who can do something about it, I can't. I had pheasants before CRP and I will have pheasants after CRP. This winter CRP is not doing pheasants any good. The reason they are alive is because of the trees that I hoed by hand every morning when I was a kid. They are also enjoying the 30 acres of corn that I did not harvest and sell. 30 acres x 100 bushels per acre x $6.50, well you get the idea. CRP lets there be more pheasants, ducks, deer and various other kinds of wildlife. That should be beneficial to every wildlife lover. In a real dry year I might get to cut a little of it for hay. That was what originally atracted me to CRP in the first place many years ago, a way to have a little hay insurance. If you use CRP with some winter habitat and a feed source then it can be a good thing. It also has a down side. When 150 deer show up for the winter because you have hay and winter habitat and a feed source it can be expensive. If you have ever seen what 150 deer can do to a stack of 2nd cutting alfalfa you know what I mean.
moellermd
Super Moderator
If you look back at the prior post you will see that the reference to receiving the government payment for CRP and charging $700 a gun refers to Chris's operation. We were discussing the merits of how CRP pays the bills compared with farming the ground.
If when you said that taking government money and charging $700 is greed and you were not referring to Chris than I must be missing something.
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beaglebob1
New member
Just playing devils advocate. These are the arguments that may need addressed in the future with the country in a fiscal train wreck and debt going up every second. I am a small biz owner and have a small farm to boot and tax rate is a bitch, we have been lucky that we are booming. Guys calling in to talk radio about any goverment dealings can be bad. Me and my guys heard the caller and he made it sound pretty bad about the crp monies and farmers paid not to produce. City folk aint going to like hearing that and could make a big stink.my last 2 cents.:cheers: Learn to argue your points or it could be over.
Just playing devils advocate. These are the arguments that may need addressed in the future with the country in a fiscal train wreck and debt going up every second. I am a small biz owner and have a small farm to boot and tax rate is a bitch, we have been lucky that we are booming. Guys calling in to talk radio about any goverment dealings can be bad. Me and my guys heard the caller and he made it sound pretty bad about the crp monies and farmers paid not to produce. City folk aint going to like hearing that and could make a big stink.my last 2 cents.:cheers: Learn to argue your points or it could be over.
I agree that with the coming buget cuts that CRP may be reduced or eliminated. I think there are more areas that need attention first. It would be fine with me if they eliminated the farm program. I don't think they will because they like to lead us around with a carrot. It may be that they can't afford the carrots any more. If CRP goes it will reduce wildlife of all kinds. Fee hunting for pheasants may get more expensive if you reduce the number of pheasants. However if a guy like me is willing to leave the dollars worth of corn that I left this year I will probably make sure I have nesting. With land costs escalating rapidly there is much pressure to farm it. Hunting is at risk. As ironic as it may sound the guys that are using CRP to enhance their fee hunting may be the pheasant hunters best friend. The pheasants just don't stay where they are hatched. Natures way of ensuring genetic diversity I guess.
captaincoot
Banned
If the gov't would run the crp program like you haymaker it would really be something. You got to have the total package for it to work right. Like on my crp I'll have a cattail slough 4-5 acres and i'll plant a food plot for them on my own dime. Having a hard time with the trees though don't know if I want to put the ground aside. gov't says I can't have trees on the crp. I think they should pay farmers to leave crops by the public areas and maybe make it so the public can hunt it.tough sell I know.
Don't give me too much credit. The trees were planted for livestock protection. We knew it would benefit wildlife too. It never ocurred to us that wildlife would ever become a cash crop. The government can not figure out much when it comes to CRP or wildlife. They get lobbied by some wildlife group and the next CRP looks a certain way. Then a different group lobbies them and the next version looks like something different. They are more of a hinderence than a help, but somebody has to run it.
UGUIDE
Active member
Mike, there's a whole lot of assumptions in your statement so can you please elaborate a little further?
moellermd
Super Moderator
I guess it depends on what type of CRP program your ground is in. My assumption is that that we where talking about general signup stuff. Stuff that was offered in CRP sign up 39. My contention is that with $3.50 to $4.00 plus corn CRP can not compete. Now if we are talking about marginal land that does not produce a crop every year that is another story.
For example we have 7 acres in filter strips at $140. We could probably farm 6 of that. At commodity prices the last 4 years we could have made more money farming it, (it was a pain in the behind).
The stuff we put in this year was marginal crap that did not yield well. That makes monetary sense. But big tracks of farm-able ground does not.
For example we have 7 acres in filter strips at $140. We could probably farm 6 of that. At commodity prices the last 4 years we could have made more money farming it, (it was a pain in the behind).
The stuff we put in this year was marginal crap that did not yield well. That makes monetary sense. But big tracks of farm-able ground does not.
Well we wore out this thread. It seems pretty simple to me. you can have maximum income for now, in the short run, or you can have pheasants, other wildlife, cleaner water, less erosion, but you can't have both! In 3 years or less the corn price will be bumpkus and $100-$150.00 an acre for CRP might look pretty good. I really question whether it's fair to compare share lease income, with all the risk and expense, with CRP income, a fairer comparison would be cash rent, which admittedly is through the roof this year, but historically is very close to the CRP payment offered, with no risk at all, and the obvious, at least to the members of this forum, benefits. Someday, maybe this year, somebodies share income may evaporate in a wet cold spring, or a dry June and July. Factor the odds of that into the equation. Farmer mentality has always been, unbridled optimism, higher rent, bigger yields, higher commodity prices, are always just around the corner. The hog producers have been sure that prices would rebound by now as well. History paints a different picture. Short cycles of big profits followed by longer cycles of giving it all back to stay afloat.