Your breed of dog and why
- Thread starter RoosterTim
- Start date
jeffstally
Member
I have always found it weird how people act about their chosen dog breed.
It is a lot like truck loyalties. Some people like Fords, some Chevys, and some Dodge. The bottom line is that they are all decent or the companies would not have been in business for all of these years. To argue about which is better is a waste of energy.
The same goes for hunting dogs. Over the years countless breeds have gone extinct, some because they lost a useful purpose. Obviously all of the hunting breeds we have left can get the job done, or the breed wouldn't be around because people would not have continued to breed dogs that could not put meat on the table back in the days before supermarkets. Some might be better specialists, and some might be better general purpose but each hunter makes his/her dog buying decision based upon their needs and desires.
Before I ever got into hunting, my family had labs, goldens, and setters at one time or another. When I bought my first bird dog I decided to go the Springer route. Then I bught another. After hunting for a few years, I decided it would be fun to get a pointing dog to mix it up a little. This will be my red setter's first year seriously in the field and I am really looking forward to it. I can envision situations where the seter will be the go-to dog and other areas where the springers will no doubt get the nod.
The next time I am looking for a new pup, which will be much sooner than my wife would care to know, I might mix it up a little and look into Brits or even GWPs. This isn't because I dislike one of my other dogs, I just think it is good to learn about other breeds and I like the diversity. If I ever got more serious about duck hunting, I would look into labs or goldens.
You can't say that there is a dog that is just an all around best dog to have.
It is a lot like truck loyalties. Some people like Fords, some Chevys, and some Dodge. The bottom line is that they are all decent or the companies would not have been in business for all of these years. To argue about which is better is a waste of energy.
The same goes for hunting dogs. Over the years countless breeds have gone extinct, some because they lost a useful purpose. Obviously all of the hunting breeds we have left can get the job done, or the breed wouldn't be around because people would not have continued to breed dogs that could not put meat on the table back in the days before supermarkets. Some might be better specialists, and some might be better general purpose but each hunter makes his/her dog buying decision based upon their needs and desires.
Before I ever got into hunting, my family had labs, goldens, and setters at one time or another. When I bought my first bird dog I decided to go the Springer route. Then I bught another. After hunting for a few years, I decided it would be fun to get a pointing dog to mix it up a little. This will be my red setter's first year seriously in the field and I am really looking forward to it. I can envision situations where the seter will be the go-to dog and other areas where the springers will no doubt get the nod.
The next time I am looking for a new pup, which will be much sooner than my wife would care to know, I might mix it up a little and look into Brits or even GWPs. This isn't because I dislike one of my other dogs, I just think it is good to learn about other breeds and I like the diversity. If I ever got more serious about duck hunting, I would look into labs or goldens.
You can't say that there is a dog that is just an all around best dog to have.
wesslpointer
New member
Uncle Buck Ive always found this story intersting. Even herd that it was 80 times. What it tells me how little POINT there was in the pointer back then. I believe thats its only been in the last 30 years are so that the hi intensity of point we all love has been breed in! I get a chuckle out of the claims by some "new" found OLD breeds that there A 100 yr "pure" breed. The pudel people have been smart enough not to buy in to that.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Excuse me wesslpointer but I think you mis-understood Uncle Buck's post. I don't think the breeding back of the Pointer so many times was due to "how little POINT there was in the pointer back then". The point was there, it was because the Pudel genes were so strong. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I have not hunted with a Griffon (Wirehairred Pointing Griffon) but I have seen one in the field. I considered the breed a few years ago when I was looking for another dog. They tend to be a little slower and closer working from what I've read. But the dog I saw in the field cover a lot of ground. There are a lot of Griffon owners on the VersatileDogs.com web site so that would be a good source for you. http://versatiledogs.com/
One of the Griffon owners on that site is "orhunter" from Oregon. I know him and his real name is Harvey. He could provide you with a lot of info. There are quite a few Griff breeders in Wisconsin. Not sure about Minn. I know Harvey could recommend some good breeders in this area.
Vizslas- When I first started looking for a dog, I was doing research on breeds and stumbled upon the vizsla. I loved their personality and their abilities. I spoke to my dad about it and he showed me a picture of my grandfather (who I never got to meet) working some Vizslas. That sold it. I was very fortunate to get a dog from a field trialer and things went from there. We hunted and he ran all over the country. I really enjoyed watching him run. We won a couple field trials, I got a couple more dogs, won some trials, lost some and had a great time doing it.I foster dogs for my vizsla club.
I want my dogs to run, run, run. I've never tried to rein a dog in and never will. The bigger running dogs excite me and make it fun for me. Quail are my bird of choice and my dogs suit me and my style. We hunted 40 some odd days last season, and I shot chickens, quail and phez over my dogs. In the end, its all about the dogs for me. Its not about how many birds I shoot, but rather how many points my dogs get and how they handle themselves on their game and watching them to what they were born to do. They have their faults and I love em all the same. So do I.
I find I'd rather shoot a camera then a gun sometimes. Because eventually, all I'll have is pictures and memories.
I want my dogs to run, run, run. I've never tried to rein a dog in and never will. The bigger running dogs excite me and make it fun for me. Quail are my bird of choice and my dogs suit me and my style. We hunted 40 some odd days last season, and I shot chickens, quail and phez over my dogs. In the end, its all about the dogs for me. Its not about how many birds I shoot, but rather how many points my dogs get and how they handle themselves on their game and watching them to what they were born to do. They have their faults and I love em all the same. So do I.
I find I'd rather shoot a camera then a gun sometimes. Because eventually, all I'll have is pictures and memories.
Uncle Buck
New member
Well, I was not around in the 1870s but presume they were getting too much Pudel and not enough point if they kept breeding the cross back to the
English. Certainly there were some staunch English pointers at the beginning of the 20th Century. As much as I like Pudelpointers, I could not honestly say they have the classic point of an English, but individual Puds can lock up impressively.
Probably the two oldest "purebreds" in the bird hunting breeds are the Munsterlander and the English pointer.
RoosterTim
Member
A buddy of mine in Nebraska had a griffon but he had to move away for work. Huge dog. He couldn't fit in my dog box so we took his truck all the time. I loved that dog. So easy going in the field. He had drive but he never showed it. Very aloof but you could tell he was hunting hard. Paired with my pointers they were a very good team. That dog didn't have as good of a nose as my pointers but he backed very well and retrieved his gigantic butt off. I mean it that dog was at least 90 pounds. Just a huge bird dog. Worked like a little like GSHP and always infront just with-in gun range. Great dog I would highly recommend them just not as big as this one.
kansasbrittany
Banned
This has been my experience w/ my wirehair. We don't know whether he's a German or a Griffon b/c we adopted him at 3 years old. Judging by pics on the internet, I'd say he's a Griffon and yes, he's a big-o-bird dog. "Very aloof", lumbering, big dopey looking wooly beast, but he's a hunting machine. The brits and GSP's noses are notably better, but he'll pick up a bird or 2 from time to time. He refuses to let another dog beat him to the retrieve. Since he's always working close (as you mentioned about your experience) he's always around to make the retrieve. Besides being a pleasure in the field he's a solid companion. Fun at the lake and creek and always trying to sit in my lap at the house
The boys take him out to the yard to play anytime of day. Doesn't matter who/what comes by, he just doesn't show excitement for much of anything and he wouldn't hurt a fly (unless I shot at it first). Don't expect him to cover 160 acres while you stand in the middle and wait for a point though! He ain't like V-john's dogs. He'll only work as hard as I do. That I find very entertaining, so long as I have a big running dog along to compensate.I hope the one thing everyone takes from this thread is that VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE. I plan to try one of each before my birding days are over.....same w/ trucks and women, I'd like to try one of every kind
:cheers:
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RoosterTim
Member
KB
that sounds just like a Griffon. They are fun dogs. The are big lumbering clowns that you just have to love. It's like they are your goofy grandpa that is hunting with you and is there just to have a good time. I would compare it to hunting with Larry the Cable Guy.
When Gunner (the Nebraska dog) would point he held his head very high above the cover and just stood still. Not like a pointer that is hard and rigid but more like a pointing lab or retriever almost a mix of lab and setter point. Does this sound like your dog?
that sounds just like a Griffon. They are fun dogs. The are big lumbering clowns that you just have to love. It's like they are your goofy grandpa that is hunting with you and is there just to have a good time. I would compare it to hunting with Larry the Cable Guy.
When Gunner (the Nebraska dog) would point he held his head very high above the cover and just stood still. Not like a pointer that is hard and rigid but more like a pointing lab or retriever almost a mix of lab and setter point. Does this sound like your dog?
kansasbrittany
Banned
Yes Sir it does! He ain't nothin' fancy when he points. He just stops (like he does so regularly anyway) and stares.
One thing he doesn't do well (this dog has never had any formal training) is point quail. He ran in on V-Johns Vislas twice during the same hunt last season and busted a few coveys on my dogs as well. Once the covey is busted and we're hunting singles, he does just fine. He'll hold roosters too, but insists on busting coveys. Don't quite understand that one yet, but I think it's b/c he uses his eye sight as much as his nose and he just gets too excited. He's a real team-player on all other counts.
Oh, and he's the double-retrieve king of my kennel. I've seen him pick multiple birds up on more than one occasion. He's got such a big mouth he may as well put it to use right?
RoosterTim
Member
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Zeb,
Thanks for the info. I have been looking hard and talking with some people over there too. Thanks to everyone else for their info as well. Always good to hear from the more experienced guys on the site!
koja48
New member
Had the pleasure of hunting over my best friend's year-old Griff last year. Sofie needs some work yet, but she does hunt close & points like a pro; great nose. She scares the hell out of my pup, but she's tall & rangy and Griffs look rather imposing, anyway. Better yet . . . she loves me. Good pooch.
wesslpointer
New member
I said I find it interesting! Bob Farris of Cedarwoods kennels Boise Id who raises some of the best there is. Says in his history of the pudelpointer That Von Zedlitz started with 90 "pointers" and only 7 " Pudel's" IF he line breed at all he would have gotten all the "point" there was out of his pointers. Witch by the way MAY have been the Spanish pointers. The first English pointer did not come in tell 1881. If you look how they "pointers" were trained back then I just don't feel they had near the point of todays pointers.
beaglebob1
New member
History of the English Pointer
Believed to have originated in the sixteenth and seventeenth century from Europe. There are known records of the Pointer in England dating back to as early as 1650, when Pointers were used to find HARE. Most sources indicate that the Pointer was developed by crossing these baseline breeds: Greyhound, Foxhound, Bloodhounds and Bull Terriers. A few other sources include the Italian Pointer, the Setter, Newfoundland and the Bulldog.
Gatzby
Well-known member
Get a hold of Joe Mix in Grand Rapids MN. He has some really good quality field Griffons. They aren't cheap......but they are good.
PM me if you have trouble locating his phone number.
Steve
I love comments like this. I don't want this to start a peeing match, but A "show" dog doesn't have to have any hunt in them at all. However, "dual" dogs have to win both Show and Field Trials. As far as Field Trial dogs not being able to hunt wild birds, from what Ive seen that is one of the biggest misunderstandings there is in the dog world. Most guys who make these statements don't realize that many, if not most of the FT dogs (at least the good ones) spend summers at camp in the Dakota's hunting wild birds. There is a misconception that because most trials are run on released birds, they don't know how to handle wild birds. This is so far from the truth its almost laughable. My Field Trial pointing dog has probably pinned more wild birds by the age of three, then most dogs will in a lifetime. A big running pointing dog that doesn't have a lot of wild bird experience is a nightmare. But a big running pointing dog who has been run on lots of wild birds is a thing of beauty. And Id gladly run my pointing dog against any pointing lab in the field. From what Ive seen, the pointing labs have a hard time keeping up.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbsup: My Brittany that I run in NSTRA trials has big wheels and I'd run her against any dog on wild pheasants. Of course she gets a ton of wild pheasant exposure here in South Dakota.