True Environmentalists Campaign a Crock or Not

[UGUIDE]

Yep I think it is a great idea to try and kill the one shining sector of a horrible economy. Brillant idea.

Wirehairs, in Agweek paper this morning an article discussing 1- year outlook in Ag commodities has USDA forecasting a 30% decline in corn prices down to $4.35/bushel by next fall due to increased production in other world and developing markets in Europe and South America.

Do you think the US is the only player in the commodities market?

My friend works for Cargill and I asked him how they are doing and he says its tough and I alsed why and he says due to global economy.

 

[UGUIDE]

Been following this thread and thought I'd give my 2 cents for what it's worth. A couple of farmers I know does no-till and had to pull out the mold board plow to turn over a couple of fields they had. The reason they had to do this is because it's clay ground and got hard as brick.When they plowed it the highest gear they could go in is 2nd because it was that hard. The one was using a 1175 case trractor and the other one used an 1855 oliver.Ihave nothing against no-till but some of the farmers that I know don't use their head and do it right.

Phil V., thanks for posting. A couple things in your post that jump out at me are the statements "had to" and "don't use their head and do it right".

I have compaction readings at + 300lbs with the probe this fall but you don't see me breaking out the moldboard plow. There are better considerations, strategies and options.

 

[UGUIDE]

Good discussion here and not trying to replace mods job but encourage all to not direct comments at a person or address and individual but keep comments unemotional and focused on an issue not a user here.

This thread and any other can become a bashing thread only when comments are focused at a group or person and not the subject.

I find this thread to be very educational and productive. there are key people here that hold viewpoints that need to be heard as long a s the posts remain objective and issue focused.

One of the viewpoints I hold is I would like to see economy move back to the rural areas from the big cities where it has been migrating to for years. It may be hard for tose to move back to farm but at least there may be a move to economy close to the farms. Appears small towns are thriving in Ag communities.

I also feel that CRP has a long way to go to being fully optimized and deliver value to the taxpayers $. Taxpayer is just like a shareholder and was is corporate goal for shareholder? Deliver value to the shareholder. Our government can do a better job of this and it can start right here in this thread if we can remain objective and respect positions and viewpoints constructively. No one is right or wrong here and I would like to think that because we post on this forum we all share at least one common goal. We need one thing that unites us and will it be that common element or something close too it?

 

[UGUIDE]

See related articles in recently posted crops or conservation thread (also attached is an article related to the drain tile business boom)

http://www.ultimatepheasanthunting.com/forum/showthread.php?p=97421#post97421

Just bumping this for visibility as it is relevant content to this topic.

 

[mnmthunting]

Big ag needs support of the consumer and voters. Government programs are a huge part of agriculture as we all know. Like all political ads this is telling us what we want to hear. I like hearing this stuff, however such a small percentage of producers involved.
Remarks like the one, where no till organic matter approaches the organic matter in a native prairie. It probably does, but no more so then mold board plowing a freshly harvested corn field. In fact the fresh plowed field would have more organic matter going into the soil because of less weather deterioration.

So crock? kind of. But still, glad some producers care about benefits to wildlife.

 

[Wirehairs]

Wirehairs, in Agweek paper this morning an article discussing 1- year outlook in Ag commodities has USDA forecasting a 30% decline in corn prices down to $4.35/bushel by next fall due to increased production in other world and developing markets in Europe and South America.

Do you think the US is the only player in the commodities market?

My friend works for Cargill and I asked him how they are doing and he says its tough and I alsed why and he says due to global economy.

First of all $4.35 a bu for corn is still a great price and more in line with what it should be. Everything else ag related is more stable when corn is around $4.00 bu. Livestock feeders are better off, land rents are more in line and fertilizer prices don't flucuate as much.
The US is certainly not the the only player in the commodity world but it is the largest for Corn and Soybeans. The US grow's 40% of the corn in the entire world. China is the second biggest corn producer and their production is half of the US. The US grow's 34% of the world's soybeans. In the 50's 60's and 70's the US grew 75% of the soybeans in the world.
I don't have to hear it from a friend who heard from a friend I live it everyday. When is the last time you heard about Mass Layoffs at Cargill, ADM, Mosaic, or Potash Corp?

 

[UGUIDE]

Big ag needs support of the consumer and voters. Government programs are a huge part of agriculture as we all know. Like all political ads this is telling us what we want to hear. I like hearing this stuff, however such a small percentage of producers involved.
Remarks like the one, where no till organic matter approaches the organic matter in a native prairie. It probably does, but no more so then mold board plowing a freshly harvested corn field. In fact the fresh plowed field would have more organic matter going into the soil because of less weather deterioration.

So crock? kind of. But still, glad some producers care about benefits to wildlife.

Wayne, good post. To your point I liked the message too! I have one farmer who runs a pheasant camp that farms like the message talks about and has drank the conservation kool-aid and makes it work financially. But for every one that is that way there is probably 20 or more that are just in the opposite camp.

I would argue that the moldboard plow of corn stover can increase OM in soil. My understanding is the the tillage is too aggressive and fuel the release of carbon and burns up the OM before it bonds into soil. One of the management tradeoffs of no-till vs. till.

 

[quail hound]

Good thread Uguide. I don't mean to lump all farmers together, I just know what I see. Where I live makes up 1% of Americas ag land and produces 8% of Americas ag products. Believe me you don't produce that much without adverse effects on mother nature. What's not in permanent crop in my county is a rotation of winter wheat, corn, corn, corn then back to wheat, sprinkled with the occasional crop of Sudan and even more occasional milo. Alf alpha is never rotated but sometimes grazed by sheep in winter. Up north you can see for miles in the rice country without a tree to block your view. The pacific fly way is a shadow of its old self since the damning of rivers and levees to keep water from flooding land that was once marsh.

Look up J.G. Bosworth and how he dried the biggest natural lake west of the Mississippi (tulare lake) for the sake of progress. Good bye tule elk, antelope, grizzly bear, and the largest waterfowl wintering on the pacific, we need to grow more cotton.

Those of you farmers who truly are conservationists are my heroes, don't let your state become California.

 

[Phil V.]

Uguide

I know and understand what you mean. The guys that used the plows had broke their chisel plows and had a 2 week wait on parts because they were off brands of chisel plow. The one I used to milk cows for and did majority of the plowing for him.They were just too impatient to wait for parts to fix the chisel plows.

 

[TAC in CT]

As someone who writes about (and consults on) environmental issues and sustainability for a living, I found this video very deceptive. Just for starters, it focused entirely on traditional family owned farms -- if it wanted to present a true picture of today's agriculture, it would have interviewed corporate executives. As other members of this forum have noted, corn production has become very destructive environmentally in the U.S. as ethanol subsidies have promoted production at any cost. That has led to destruction of hedgerows, grassland areas, etc. that used to serve as wildlife (e.g. pheasant) habitat. "Round-up ready" genetically modified crops such as modern corn hybrids have led to widespread pollution of water resources with chemicals that act like hormones to distort the growth and reproduction of wildlife.
I worked on small farms while I was growing up and I have a lot of respect for farmers as group -- farmers of the traditional sort. But today's agriculture is dominated by agribusinesses that care only about squeezing maximum returns out of the land with no regard for environmental (or human) costs. It's really sad and something we need to change.

 

[moellermd]

Just for starters, it focused entirely on traditional family owned farms -- if it wanted to present a true picture of today's agriculture, it would have interviewed corporate executives. .

Around 95% of all farms are family owned, so yes the video is represenitive of who producers are. When people complain about farming pratices and its destructive nature they are complaining about the job "family farms" are doing.

 

[niceshot]

If you have to tell everyone that you are a "true environmentalist" you're probably not.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Not all are looking to till every acre, but I would tend towards the majority. It was pretty wet for a couple years and some need to catch-up. We could be in drought status here pretty quick.
Yet, the are pushing a 15% ethanol mandate---farmers getting the government to push their product. Not good for your boat. Last week there was an article re the pollution coming out of the e-plants? Who knows what to believe.
Who is this ad campaign directed at? We are back to the point where one agency is paying to drain the swamp and another preserve it.

 

[haymaker]

Not all are looking to till every acre, but I would tend towards the majority. It was pretty wet for a couple years and some need to catch-up. We could be in drought status here pretty quick.
Yet, the are pushing a 15% ethanol mandate---farmers getting the government to push their product. Not good for your boat. Last week there was an article re the pollution coming out of the e-plants? Who knows what to believe.
Who is this ad campaign directed at? We are back to the point where one agency is paying to drain the swamp and another preserve it.

Boy you hit nail on the head with that last sentence. Get the government out and let us do our own thing.

 

[oldandnew]

Boy you hit nail on the head with that last sentence. Get the government out and let us do our own thing.

Been hearing get the govt out of farming since I was 15, I'm 57 now. No govt subsidy,equals no ethanol immediately, ( a good thing), corn prices at 1.80 per bushel, great for livestock producers, corn growers not so much. With the dramatic collapse of farm land values, as a result of the lack of demand, no need to farm every corner, for something nobody will pay for. Nobody to subsize tiling and swampbusting, no price supports, lots of birds, lots of bankruptcies, cheaper food prices,at least till all the producers go broke. Problem is the free market is an illusion, it just doesn't exist on the world scene. All foreign countries subsidize, and protect with tariffs their domestic agriculture. There seems to be a theory espoused here that we are a great exporter of agricultural products, we are, but we have now become an even greater importer of agricultural products. We import 30% of our beef, right now, and a sizable percentage of our beef processing is owned by a foreign corporation. What we need is moderation, and some common sense, less govt in some cases, more in others. Instead of this nonsense of fostering one segment to the detriment of others based on strength of political clout. I grew up being taught that our form of govt made decisions based on the overall welfare of it's citizens, that's not what we have now.

 

[haymaker]

Been hearing get the govt out of farming since I was 15, I'm 57 now. No govt subsidy,equals no ethanol immediately, ( a good thing), corn prices at 1.80 per bushel, great for livestock producers, corn growers not so much. With the dramatic collapse of farm land values, as a result of the lack of demand, no need to farm every corner, for something nobody will pay for. Nobody to subsize tiling and swampbusting, no price supports, lots of birds, lots of bankruptcies, cheaper food prices,at least till all the producers go broke. Problem is the free market is an illusion, it just doesn't exist on the world scene. All foreign countries subsidize, and protect with tariffs their domestic agriculture. There seems to be a theory espoused here that we are a great exporter of agricultural products, we are, but we have now become an even greater importer of agricultural products. We import 30% of our beef, right now, and a sizable percentage of our beef processing is owned by a foreign corporation. What we need is moderation, and some common sense, less govt in some cases, more in others. Instead of this nonsense of fostering one segment to the detriment of others based on strength of political clout. I grew up being taught that our form of govt made decisions based on the overall welfare of it's citizens, that's not what we have now.

You said two things that my father talked about. He wanted the government out and he believed in moderation. I know that ag will not be government free unless we have a total collapse. But we do things to cause problems while we are diong things to fix the problems that we are still creatin at the time. Hence less gov. smaller problems. Crop insurance is a prime example of taxpayer dollars promoting the destruction of wetlands in the prairie pot hole region while Fish and wildlife is spending money to save the wetlands. I take very little gov. money these days. I do have some CRP which the gov is renting for less than the market price so I think they are getting a fair deal with out having publc access. My life is simpler and most of my income comes from some market. The blenders credit is about to go away so we will see what that does to corn prices and gas prices. Happy New Year.

 

[oldandnew]

You said two things that my father talked about. He wanted the government out and he believed in moderation. I know that ag will not be government free unless we have a total collapse. But we do things to cause problems while we are diong things to fix the problems that we are still creatin at the time. Hence less gov. smaller problems. Crop insurance is a prime example of taxpayer dollars promoting the destruction of wetlands in the prairie pot hole region while Fish and wildlife is spending money to save the wetlands. I take very little gov. money these days. I do have some CRP which the gov is renting for less than the market price so I think they are getting a fair deal with out having publc access. My life is simpler and most of my income comes from some market. The blenders credit is about to go away so we will see what that does to corn prices and gas prices. Happy New Year.

Well said, and a Happy New Year to You as Well. I'm going to have a glass of aged corn liquor that escaped the feed mill and gas tank! I'll have a toast to you all.

 

[niceshot]

oldandnew, please keep posting in 2012. Your wisdom and insight really helps make this board worthwhile. It should be obvious to everyone by now that you can't have pheasants without corn, but you can have corn without pheasants. The blenders credit may slowly decrease, but the federally mandated use of ethanol remains the law. The bitter irony, ethanol is a lot like drugs and cigarettes in that the people who make and sell it are smart enough not to use it themselves.

 

[UGUIDE]

Happy New Years Everyone. I am drinking wine tonight to help drive up corn prices.

I sure enjoyed reading all the great posts. A lot of wisdom here.

Keep em coming.

Another 2 cents on the video is I have a problem promoting the minority (truly sustainable producers) as if it were the majority.

The guys on the video can't be more than 10% of the state IMO. Maybe way less than that.

I got 2 sections across from my farm that are rented by the hutarian colony and they are losing it next year. Not sure why but it is stroon with water ways that have eroded so much some you can't drive across with planter or combine. They drain into lake andes creek and lake andes national wildlife refuge. It is silted in by the way.

How much is it worth to the taxpayer for clean water, clean air, energy independence and natural spaces? ?????

 

[mnmthunting]

Best wishes to You All in 012.

Buy the way I have killed many a rooster that have never tasted or seen corn.:cheers: