Should my next gun be backbored?

B

BenBelly

New member
Browning talks about backboring as a benefit incorporated into their current shotguns. I didn't notice mention of backboring on the Beretta site and havn't looked to see which other makers use this "feature".

Are all non-backbored barrels exactly the same size within, lets say a couple thousandth inch? Does backboring employ a bore diameter at the high end of the tolerance allowed for a specific gauge or does backboring exceed the maximum specified bore diameter. If "backboring" by a given maker is merely a bore diameter at the high end of the spec., "backboring" might be a lot of hype over nothing. If backboring exceeds the maximum spec for a given gauge, is this causing performance problems that actually negate any benefit.

I'm just not sure how much weight I should give to backboring while looking for a gun. Is it a real benefit?

Has anyone noticed any notable differences between guns with and without backboring?
 
Guns w/backboring often cost more....one difference.

No one bore size = backboring...it is a range, as with choke constriction.

I would pass...on a competition scattergun I have seen backboring help patterns, not always and helps little else....toss up.
On a field gun, no practical benefit, imo.
I had a 12 gauge Stan Baker barrel decades ago that was the ne plus of backboring before backboring was cool...fine for clays and some clay loads.
Did help with Protector loads, I thought.
Cold weather and some wads tho would find less bore sealing and incomplete powder burn. Of course, some wads are better cold weather wads.
I've had it done on Perazzis and Berettas...eh, not much downside but cost with a more imagined upside than reality.
Trapshooters tho, traditionally, search out the odd for one...more...target.

I could see backboring helping if one was trying to improve on cramming a 3" 20 load down a barrel but, even then, it is just marketing a sales gimmick to a non-informed and often gullible hunting public, in general.
Would not hurt a 410 either within reasonable limits.

Anyone wants to concentrate on finding some ingredient that will make a difference on a scattergun...look to the trigger.
Fit is large but we all can adapt to a bad fit better than we think.
Trigger holds trump.
 
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BenBelly said:
Browning talks about backboring as a benefit incorporated into their current shotguns. I didn't notice mention of backboring on the Beretta site and havn't looked to see which other makers use this "feature".

Are all non-backbored barrels exactly the same size within, lets say a couple thousandth inch? Does backboring employ a bore diameter at the high end of the tolerance allowed for a specific gauge or does backboring exceed the maximum specified bore diameter. If "backboring" by a given maker is merely a bore diameter at the high end of the spec., "backboring" might be a lot of hype over nothing. If backboring exceeds the maximum spec for a given gauge, is this causing performance problems that actually negate any benefit.

I'm just not sure how much weight I should give to backboring while looking for a gun. Is it a real benefit?

Has anyone noticed any notable differences between guns with and without backboring?
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There are many, many far more important things to consider when choosing a new gun then weather or not it has a back bored barrel. #1 being the fit of the gun to you. Weather or not you need a gun capable of shooting steel or other hard non toxic shot. The price and quality that you have in your budget. Weather a auto, pump or double would most fit your needs. The gauge that would most cover your choice of game you pursue. Those are just a few examples. As OldDublin said, don't get all caught up in the bell's and whistles. Study them, ask question's like you are in this thread but worry about the most important things first. Then look at the add on's.

Good Luck, Onpoint
 
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Back-boring is not applicable IMHO unless you are a big-time skeet range shooter that reloads. OnPoint is right in finding the right gun fit v/s all the bells and sales gimmicks. Backboring is the process of reaming a shotgun barrel to produce a choke where there is none or to increase the restriction of an existing choke. Backboring alone will not have much, if any effect on recoil, however, it is usually done in conjuction with lengthing the forcing cone which does have an effect on felt recoil. I’m not sure of your shooting situation, but If you plan to shoot good ammunition, either factory or reloads, then back-boring may make sense for you. If you $2000 on a shotgun and then feeds it $5.00/box ammo, you could be disappointed.
 
It seems wad performance is key to a consistent benefit from backboring, insignificant as that benefit might be. Actually, like OldDublin mentioned, I read about how backboring improves a 20 gauge pattern and effectiveness with heavier loads and larger shot. This peaked my interest in overboring, and it makes sense but after thinking about it, a 16 Gauge is probably a better solution for me. I certainly won’t go out of my way for a backbored 12 o/u.

For me, the overboring choice, although subordinate to the more obvious things we need to choose, is important to thoroughly understand.
 
Back boring I have no opinion on. I shoot a browning bps or my favorite gun the benelli superblack eagle 2. As far as fit the sbe2 gives you a lot of options drop and cast of the stock with a provided shim kit. 1 ounce loads to the sky is the limit. I love the easy cleaning and simple mechanics of the gun. I shoot the cylinder or skeet tubes when hunting or enjoying sporting clays.
 
Put me also in the indifferent camp. Theoretically it makes sense, but if taken to the extreme I also think the gas seal may suffer in cold weather as mentioned above. Too much of a good thing. It certainly wouldn't be a deal maker or breaker if I liked the shotgun.
 
BenBelly said:
Browning talks about backboring as a benefit incorporated into their current shotguns. I didn't notice mention of backboring on the Beretta site and havn't looked to see which other makers use this "feature".

Are all non-backbored barrels exactly the same size within, lets say a couple thousandth inch? Does backboring employ a bore diameter at the high end of the tolerance allowed for a specific gauge or does backboring exceed the maximum specified bore diameter. If "backboring" by a given maker is merely a bore diameter at the high end of the spec., "backboring" might be a lot of hype over nothing. If backboring exceeds the maximum spec for a given gauge, is this causing performance problems that actually negate any benefit.

I'm just not sure how much weight I should give to backboring while looking for a gun. Is it a real benefit?

Has anyone noticed any notable differences between guns with and without backboring?
Click to expand...

Many if not all of the current manufacturer's are now producing guns with oversized bores. The nominal bore size which stood as a standard for years was .729 . Beretta with it's mobil choke guns had a standard bore size of .722 as did many Italian gun makers. Today the Beretta shotguns using the Optima or Optima Plus and the newer yet Optima HP barrels, all incorporate a .732 bore size, which when compared to the earlier .722 bore is considered overbored.

Browning in past years had their original invector system mic out near that nominal .729 and later came the Invector Plus which runs very close to .742 .

Manufacturer's started back boring (over bore) their shotguns back in the late 80's in large part due to the popularity of sporting clays. Many shooters taking up the game where having their guns back bored from aftermarket services that also spawned due the the sporting craze and the demand to buy a gun already overbored soon became the rage. Whether or not there is an advantage to back boring is subject to the individual. The claims made back then were less felt recoil and improved patterns... I dunno... I will say this, I have a couple Beretta autoloaders, one with the smaller bore (mobil choke barrel) and one in the newer Optima plus (overbore) and for the life of me I really can't see much of a difference. At least from a standpoint of improving my shooting anyway.
 
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Gee, it's tough getting' back to work after a couple weeks off. I need to retire!!

My brief summary of what I’ve learned, with your help, is that backboring or overboring the entire length of the barrel might be beneficial. Benefits could be improved velocities plus better patterns. Also, lengthening the forcing cone, transition from the chamber to the bore, will usually reduce felt recoil as well as further improve patterns.

The fact that a competent gunsmith can do any of these modifications to improve performance of any gun really does make this subject moot when shopping for a gun.

I appreciate the informative input - Thanks
 
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BenBelly said:
....My brief summary of what I’ve learned, with your help, is that backboring or overboring the entire length of the barrel can be beneficial. Benefits are improved velocities plus better patterns. Also, lengthening the forcing cone, transition from the chamber to the bore, will usually reduce felt recoil as well as further improve patterns....
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Benefits?...maybe, maybe not :)
That is my read of the comments.
 
Yes, reading about features and benefits is one thing but where is the supporting data. And nobody here admitted to realizing a benefit, I know. Most of us understand that marketing departments thrive on emotions that embrace the theoretical differences to protect against regret, this is a big part of it.

I still won’t go out of my way for a backbored 12 o/u or any other backbored gun. - Bill


OldDublin - I changed words on my previous post beacuse I didn't mean to sound so certain that the "benefits" are there. Remember, it's Monday
 
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BenBelly said:
Yes, reading about features and benefits is one thing but where is the supporting data. And nobody here admitted to realizing a benefit, I know. Most of us understand that marketing departments thrive on emotions that embrace the theoretical differences to protect against regret, this is a big part of it.

I still won’t go out of my way for a backbored 12 o/u or any other backbored gun. - Bill
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Whether you want a back bored shotgun or not may be a moot point as many of the manufacturer's shotguns already come with over bored barrels, at least in recent times. It's quite common place now to find them not only on target shotguns but field as well.
 
Well in the 1880's the rage was jug choking. Now overboring. If you buy a new gun today, you probably don't get a choice! Chances are it's overbored to some degree. Foreign guns have traditionally been bored tighter to begin with. Essentially we now have 11 bore guns, with 12 bore chambers, which we then cram down with screw in chokes in the last 4 inches of barrel. Recoil advantage would be felt more in fixed breach guns as apposed to gas auto's. It has been demonstrated repeatedly, that the vast majority of shooters, when shooting 12 gauge guns, are far more effective with short barrels and open choke guns, at all reasonable ranges. In smaller gauges this is not the case. it can be argued that overboring supports that theory. Over-bored with cyl or imp cyl choke, is going to provide quite a uniform pattern, absent of flyers and very effective at 30 yards where most game is actually shot. The advent of the plastic shotcup with it's endless permutations, ushered in the demise of most necessity of choke. Now it can all be done with a plastic wad. Overboring in an odd way takes us back to the begining of shotgunning, I have a number of best grade percussion british shotguns, all over bored, 12's measuring 11, to almost 10, in some cases, all 30"barrels and bored cylinder. In closng I would say overboring matters almost nothing in a modern gun. it's a marketing gimmick, first one manufacturer does it, sells the idea to an adoring public, is successful, then everybody has to do it to maintain market share and avoid the " overbored gap" between them and the competition. Now if we could just get rid of rolled on engraving, and cheesey gold birds!
 
look ahead

I think we need to look ahead soon all upland well be notoxic shot!! Ive found big steel shot and a lot of them kills "actually stunes" as well as lead. So for a new Pheasant gun I would take a look at a Backbored.
 
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wesslpointer said:
I think we need to look ahead soon all upland well be notoxic shot!! Ive found big steel shot and a lot of them kills "actually stunes" as well as lead. So for a new Pheasant gun I would take a look at a Backbored.
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I hate the cost, but I shoot tungsten matrix, bismuth, and now nice shot, I use old timey guns which can't take steel and I'm not going to change now. But I agree the ban is coming. I have already gone that way. I wish you guys would use no-tox alternatives to steel and drive the cost down,and help me out!
 
wesslpointer said:
I think we need to look ahead soon all upland well be notoxic shot!! Ive found big steel shot and a lot of them kills "actually stunes" as well as lead. So for a new Pheasant gun I would take a look at a Backbored.
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I fret the day but agree. Non toxic shot is being pushed by those who believe that lead is much more of a toxin then it is. If that does happen, many classic fixed choke guns will become obsolete instantly. a majority of people can not afford most non lead alternatives. WAY! too expensive for this guy. It also achieves the goal of many anti gun proponents. The ability to keep gun owners from stock piling ammunition. Nobody could afford to buy up and stock pile it.
 
onpoint said:
I fret the day but agree. Non toxic shot is being pushed by those who believe that lead is much more of a toxin then it is. If that does happen, many classic fixed choke guns will become obsolete instantly. a majority of people can not afford most non lead alternatives. WAY! too expensive for this guy. It also achieves the goal of many anti gun proponents. The ability to keep gun owners from stock piling ammunition. Nobody could afford to buy up and stock pile it.
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Each shot charge of 1 ounce of nice shot is about 2.25 per shot! bismuth is slightly less if you can find it. Nice shot is slightly harder than magnum lead shot and ballistically nearly the same. In my experience bismuth is inferior, but better than cintered iron,(steel). I shoot targets with lead, game with nice shot, since I shoot so few anyway!
 
oldandnew said:
Each shot charge of 1 ounce of nice shot is about 2.25 per shot! bismuth is slightly less if you can find it. Nice shot is slightly harder than magnum lead shot and ballistically nearly the same. In my experience bismuth is inferior, but better than cintered iron,(steel). I shoot targets with lead, game with nice shot, since I shoot so few anyway!
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Compared to premium steel shot loads costing less then a $1.00 per shot. Pretty tough to swallow and that's if you load it yourself. A majority of factory loaded premium non toxic loads are $3.00 to $4.00 + per shell.
 
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