Road counts

UGUIDE said:
One of the data inconsistencies is how the overall percentage increases and decreases can be significant over the years but the bird per person harvest rate over the last 10 years has deviated very little for the 2 bird per person average.
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I have yet to meet a hunter who has had a pheasant survey sent to them I'm curious if anybody else has noticed this??? Every year I have baught a SD turkey tag I have got a survey in mail & on line...???

That 2 bird per day 4 day hunt average seem correct U will average 10-12 birds in 4-5 days in SD if u hunt hard even on public land limits can be had I just miss a lot sometimes lol
 
David 0311

What some seem to miss --is that the surveys (and I have acually done them--not in South Dakota however-- are not intended to tell you how exactly how many birds are out there (though that can be extrapolated to some extent) but the trend I numbers from year to year--and while local areas may not be definitive because of some local issues --the fact they are done over a large area with conditions as close to optimal that are about the only way to somewhat accurately measure trends and numbers--they are not perfect but are a whole lot better than some of the methods used on other species

JMO--fire away :eek:
 
David, I couldn't agree with you more. I've been coming to South Dakota for the better part of 10 years, and find that the trends shown by the survey correlate very closely to our experiences -- particularly as the compare to the year before, or the next year. My group doesn't make decisions about whether or not to come by the survey, but we are firm believers that they are a helpful guide as to regions that may have "recovered" somewhat, or may be in a down cycle. I don't look for anything more than that in the survey, but it's been good, general data for us, and sometimes fairly reflects our experiences in one region, over another.
 
blockade said:
David, I couldn't agree with you more. I've been coming to South Dakota for the better part of 10 years, and find that the trends shown by the survey correlate very closely to our experiences -- particularly as the compare to the year before, or the next year. My group doesn't make decisions about whether or not to come by the survey, but we are firm believers that they are a helpful guide as to regions that may have "recovered" somewhat, or may be in a down cycle. I don't look for anything more than that in the survey, but it's been good, general data for us, and sometimes fairly reflects our experiences in one region, over another.
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I figure u are good to ask a 10 year SD vet... Have you or any in your party been sent or completed a pheasant harvest survey sent to y by SD game & fish...??? I've maid 7 Trips since 2013 never seen a survey... A few guys a year I talk with ask wear do they get these numbers I never been surveyed ???

I agree with some of ur comment but in 1 part u agree trends in survey correlate very closely to ur experience ... Then last part u say only sometimes the survey fairly reflects ur experience in 1 area over another...

That also means sometimes these surveys are way off in numbers sometimes correct??? All just a guess... I'm sure if SD game & fish did not conduct survey there would still be loads of hunters heading to SD yearly there's 3-6 magazines that put out pheasant reports etc b4 the season kick off we would get our pre season count fix 1 way or another... I personally trust the guys on this site that have been pheasant farming for years vs the SD game & fish numbers ... Bad reports from SD game & fish loose the state of SD lots of $$$
 
David0311

small munsterlander owner said:
I figure u are good to ask a 10 year SD vet... Have you or any in your party been sent or completed a pheasant harvest survey sent to y by SD game & fish...??? I've maid 7 Trips since 2013 never seen a survey... A few guys a year I talk with ask wear do they get these numbers I never been surveyed ???

I agree with some of ur comment but in 1 part u agree trends in survey correlate very closely to ur experience ... Then last part u say only sometimes the survey fairly reflects ur experience in 1 area over another...

That also means sometimes these surveys are way off in numbers sometimes correct??? All just a guess... I'm sure if SD game & fish did not conduct survey there would still be loads of hunters heading to SD yearly there's 3-6 magazines that put out pheasant reports etc b4 the season kick off we would get our pre season count fix 1 way or another... I personally trust the guys on this site that have been pheasant farming for years vs the SD game & fish numbers ... Bad reports from SD game & fish loose the state of SD lots of $$$
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HUH???? Where do you think the magazines you speak of get those numbers and predictions from????
I have received survey forms many times over the past 25years
Also wardens are often tasked with keeping a count/estimate --regard success of hunter checked -at least in some states and I have no reason to believe
S.D. Would be any different
What is a Pheasant Farmer --that you refer to in your posts?
 
To Small Munsterlander Owner, yes, I've received the form and filled it out more than once over the years, for whatever that's worth. My point, though, was about the surveys -- they're generally not far off of our experiences. Sometimes they even are reflective of our experiences in one area over another, but generally speaking they're helpful on more of a generalized level -- on years the surveys show up numbers, we often shoot more birds. On down years, we sometimes see similar down numbers at the ground level. Nothing more or less, and don't really care to argue the point with you.
 
small munsterlander owner said:
I have yet to meet a hunter who has had a pheasant survey sent to them I'm curious if anybody else has noticed this??? Every year I have baught a SD turkey tag I have got a survey in mail & on line...???

That 2 bird per day 4 day hunt average seem correct U will average 10-12 birds in 4-5 days in SD if u hunt hard even on public land limits can be had I just miss a lot sometimes lol
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This will be my 8th year coming to South Dakota and I have been surveyed by SDGFP for the 2013 season. I'll be honest I don't remember much about what they asked, but obviously birds harvested was one of the questions. I believe they asked about hunting county, private or public, and some other questions I can't remember that well.

I tend the view the survey the same as analyst for the NFL. Sometimes they nail the predictions for the Super Bowl and not so much other times. It's factually based entertainment, but it's a bit of a guess as things can always change. Two thoughts come to mind is 2013 was my 5th year going to SD and the first time I bagged my limit (survey results weren't positive). Made 2 trips that year and got my limit both times. Then 2014 one trip and got my limit again. Then last year I missed it by a bird or two (surveys were real positive). I'm excited to see the bird reports and who analyst are picking for the Super Bowl. Both should be published this week!

Only 44 days 20 hours 32 minutes 42 second to go!
 
chriswhite22 said:
This will be my 8th year coming to South Dakota and I have been surveyed by SDGFP for the 2013 season. I'll be honest I don't remember much about what they asked, but obviously birds harvested was one of the questions. I believe they asked about hunting county, private or public, and some other questions I can't remember that well.

I tend the view the survey the same as analyst for the NFL. Sometimes they nail the predictions for the Super Bowl and not so much other times. It's factually based entertainment, but it's a bit of a guess as things can always change. Two thoughts come to mind is 2013 was my 5th year going to SD and the first time I bagged my limit (survey results weren't positive). Made 2 trips that year and got my limit both times. Then 2014 one trip and got my limit again. Then last year I missed it by a bird or two (surveys were real positive). I'm excited to see the bird reports and who analyst are picking for the Super Bowl. Both should be published this week!

Only 44 days 20 hours 32 minutes 42 second to go!
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Write on Chris white. My 1st year to SD was 2013 I limited daily 4 days strait could not hunt all 5 days... Predictions were doom & gloom I had a blast I could of limited every trip I either miss or my buddy's get the ez shot i should a took & miss some guys I took to SD missed 5-7 birds on a trip all part of the fun
 
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blockade said:
To Small Munsterlander Owner, yes, I've received the form and filled it out more than once over the years, for whatever that's worth. My point, though, was about the surveys -- they're generally not far off of our experiences. Sometimes they even are reflective of our experiences in one area over another, but generally speaking they're helpful on more of a generalized level -- on years the surveys show up numbers, we often shoot more birds. On down years, we sometimes see similar down numbers at the ground level. Nothing more or less, and don't really care to argue the point with you.
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Nobody argueing with u I was curious if u long time sd hunters actually have ever been surveyed or if it was another b/s survey conducted like road counts is all I see hunters are surveyed so like I said the 2 bird per day limits SD game & fish puts out seem correct... What ever that's worth?

As for ur opinion on road side counts thanks for them... I've seen the oppasit 2013 loads of birds 2014-2015 lots more hunters same amount of birds no collation with the road side counts I bagged about same amount of birds maybe few less...

Good luck & happy hunting in SD 2016... Whatever that's worth...
 
As for the survey's I've been surveyed numerous times in the last 17 years. Not everyone that buys a license gets a survey. That would cost way too much. Being how you have only been to SD three years you may not have gotten the luck of the draw to get a survey. Maybe this year you will get one. Again, not everyone does.
 
david0311 said:
HUH???? Where do you think the magazines you speak of get those numbers and predictions from????
I have received survey forms many times over the past 25years
Also wardens are often tasked with keeping a count/estimate --regard success of hunter checked -at least in some states and I have no reason to believe
S.D. Would be any different
What is a Pheasant Farmer --that you refer to in your posts?
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Pheasant farmer aka ranch/outfit that grows crops & pheasants to hunt not put & take canned hunts. Im talking Like uguide haymaker & any of the guides on the hunt directory...

The magazines I read mostly have a interview with a states biologist etc. & will give more info then just up%s & down%s. I like to hear how the spring Summer was & what they feel numbers are VS just numbers like I doubt SD had a 20% decrease from 2015 to 2016 but?

Good to hear hunters in SD actually get surveyed...
 
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small munsterlander owner said:
It would coast to much $$$ time energy & man power for the SD game & fish employ teams of guys to go push fields with dogs etc & flush birds wear good habitat & report the numbers they would need landowner permission & that's just not really a option I'd like them do something like that or ask landowner & or habitat owners there #s guess because that's all SD game & fish MN DNR are doing guessing...

In MN late season there are some research teams that go out & do winter counts on certain areas that's wear I got the go flush broods to get a good count technique did not pull it out my butt...

These college educated biologist did not invent these technique they are just doing what the last guy did most will tell u its not a exact method just gives us a idea... SD biologist says it paints a pretty good pictures etc of birds in the area...???

2 days driving around a small fraction of a area with no habitat won't tell u much like uguide say...

I'd say a winter late winter count early spring count & brood count mite could be more accurate then 2 days drive n around???
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Correct me if im reading this wrong but I would think that the roadside counts and brood counts would be more of an indication of how WILD birds are doing and throws out a multi-year trend. If private guides and preserves are putting out 500,000 plus birds, all roosters, then how would that play into the counts. You can send all the guys you want out to flush up the birds but maybe you just flushed 50 birds that were released last week from a farm 2 miles away. Ive had neighbors that are 4 miles away send me pictures of pheasants and chukars eating out of their bird feeders. And if the preserves are getting bombarded. Multiple hunts per day, the birds are gonna split, which is why they have to release more. I think the summer surveys give more of an indication of how the broods are doing as compared to other years. Some people dont like the driving around to take a survey, but how do we hunt? We drive around and when you see a bunch of birds in an area, you get out and hunt. Scouting to hunt is sort of surveying too. So game and fish do it pretty much like the hunters. My opinion.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Correct me if im reading this wrong but I would think that the roadside counts and brood counts would be more of an indication of how WILD birds are doing and throws out a multi-year trend. If private guides and preserves are putting out 500,000 plus birds, all roosters, then how would that play into the counts. You can send all the guys you want out to flush up the birds but maybe you just flushed 50 birds that were released last week from a farm 2 miles away. Ive had neighbors that are 4 miles away send me pictures of pheasants and chukars eating out of their bird feeders. And if the preserves are getting bombarded. Multiple hunts per day, the birds are gonna split, which is why they have to release more. I think the summer surveys give more of an indication of how the broods are doing as compared to other years. Some people dont like the driving around to take a survey, but how do we hunt? We drive around and when you see a bunch of birds in an area, you get out and hunt. Scouting to hunt is sort of surveying too. So game and fish do it pretty much like the hunters. My opinion.
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They don't count them released birds in the survey's now??? SD is full of guys putting birds out I pass big pens with all roosters in them less & less birds every time u pass lol. Guys put out hens in spring to try & have WILD chicks etc. So not sure what the private guide thing has to do with survey? Ive shot birds with blinder holes in nostril's on public land in SD maybe that bird was counted in survey maybe not ???

In SD I have employed the drive around see birds & hunt technique b4... In MN, NE & ND I always had spots A B C in mind & google map scouted prior to hunt now in SD I have a bunch of known areas I hit & check out a few new 1s each trip so no more road hunting really for me...

Brood counts are good things...
 
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Dakotazeb said:
Is the survey accurate? Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of factors that can vary the outcome. But the GFP has been doing it this was for a lot of years so if you change the method or criteria then all the previous results are useless. Take it for what it is. I think it's an attempt to paint a broad picture of the current year's bird numbers. And don't get too caught up in the percentage of increase/decrease. If bird numbers in an area go from 0.7 ppm to 1.2 ppm that is a 71% increase. However, the actual increase is really only 0.5 ppm. Hardly anything to crow about.

Overall, SD should have a fair increase in the number of birds. We had a mild winter and pretty good weather during the hatch. That should bode well for numbers. But it's still likely to vary quite a bit by area. Again, lots of factors. Some areas have had some pretty severe hail storms and that never helps the pheasants.

Go out, hunt with the dog and have some fun. After all, that's what it's all about. Not getting a limit every day.
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George,

Another factor to point out with the road surveys is yes they are the same routes every year. But you also have to consider the habitat along that route. If there was any amount of habitat that was taken away from that area it will have a greater impact on the numbers than prior years.

I just spent five days out at the house and spent mornings and evening scouting for birds. Three of the five days numbers were pretty thin. I was actually getting kind of nervous with what I was seeing. The last couple days after branching out more we were able to find larger broods of birds.

There will always be birds no matter what the count says. SD you will see more birds than you can any where else in the country by my opinion. SD isn't the grand shootout, how many birds is enough? SD is about the experience, dog work, and the satisfaction your research paid off to find the birds. If I am wrong with my opinion please chime in....

The wet spring also had a impact on crops in the area. This is the first time I can remember in my 20+ years in SD seeing barren fields where farmer weren't able to plant. I am guessing in some areas I scouted 15% of the field were bare. I also noticed that it's rotation time for some public grounds to be hayed. There are multiple areas that were good hunting that look like your mowed front yard. To look at this in a positive fashion when the corn comes down the limited habitat it should hold larger numbers of birds. The negative part of that is trying to get close to them groups.

Like every season it will depend on the area you hunt, being mobile will be key this year just like in past years to have success. I am sure there still are comparable to larger numbers when looking at last year. Boots on the ground and good dogs will get you into birds eventually.

The season is fast approaching and the excitement is in the air. Let's all remember to be safe out there and enjoy the moment. Good luck!
 
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Road Counts?

I saw this thread title and it made me think of where all this data is ever taken from and what it is relevant to and what it really tells us.

Road Counts are taken from the road, in a vehicle , that is moving down the road. The same road, the same method, for decades.

Maybe this information should only be pertain to "road hunters"? :D:rolleyes::thumbsup:

I drive around my farm a lot on the "road". I don't see that many pheasants from the road. Not as many as you think you would or should. But then I do see and hear a lot when I am sitting in my deer blind in the mornings and evenings. I hear a whole lot when one cackles real loud and the others sound off. Or when a fighter jet flys over on a training mission on a calm cool evening and a sonic boom is experienced. Every rooster in audible range cackles in for roll call. A veritable Rooster Cacophony.

Maybe you only see pheasants on the road when there is not much room for them in the field?

Nonetheless, roads don't make for much good habitat for pheasants. I usually find a bird dog looking for pheasants in the grass and not on the roads. I think I will follow the dog.:cheers:
 
Nice way to lighten it up Uguide. :D I agree follow the dog. Call me stupid, or what you will, I go for the dog. If I could get in the dogs head and hear what she thinks after she locks down, the bird is flushed, and I unload the scatter gun ,but the bird keeps flying. She probably wants to put me on the leash and feed me the same diet day after day :eek:

Are you serious about the fighter jet? That would be so cool to hear all the roosters lighting off after the big bird passes.

The last week in October isn't coming fast enough!!!!!
 
I agree maybe the road hunters mite have a tuff season??? Way to much faith in the road counts... If we listen to every other couple guys friends or land they hunt we will on have a couple weeks good hunting maybe? BS most these guys go to SD 4-5days a year & just regurgitate what friends tnink or say... If u have the habitat u will have birds...


Yup loud noises often shock a rooster into crowing herd crow into December last year

Its all about the dog work & memories for me not just ez limits & trophy pics with a pile of dead birds...
 
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