Goosemaster
Well-known member
Sometimes I run like an olympic sprinter after my dog, sometimes I'm just not into it, and I just let him go and then I see where the birds fly.
Pointer or flusher debate
- Thread starter SDhunter86
- Start date
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Yes, senior citizen (& nearly senior citizen) pheasant hunters are known to be incredibly fast when there's a chance to shoot a rooster. Just like lightning.
Bob Peters
Well-known member
I sent my buddy a video clip last season. He is a huge duck hunter and responds back "you're breathing kinda hard." I wanted to tell him, "Yeah well I'm not sitting in a blind all day cooking eggs and bacon waiting for a bird to fly over my head. Humpin' through sloughs and snow-covered chisel-plowed fields is a lot of work!"
Bob Peters
Well-known member
Goose, I just had an idea and fleshing it out here in real time. You need to write a book, or I could ghost write it for you. Assorted chapters could be:
-How to find and hunt the best ranches in Montana
-What to do if you accidentally shoot a hen
-Famous people I've hunted with
-My life hunting and exploring the High Canadian
-Do's and Dont's when asking for permission
-Goose's world famous game recipes
-Big game hunters are Rubes (mostly)
-How to bag a gobbler in the western US
-Offseason in the ski boat
-My Cousin, the man the myth the legend
-You can't beat a good hunting dog: Why I love labs
-Gifts for farmers with good ground; PBR, sirloins and t-bones
-Tips to avoid mountain lions and grizzly bears while bird hunting
-The 28 is a great gun, but nothing hits like a 12ga hi-brass magnum
-Suburbans and the Gucci culture
-Don't pay to hunt
-These Video guys
-Trying to get my nephew a bird
-Losing birds, the lessons I've learned
-Don't hunt with an Ugly gun
Golden Hour
Well-known member
I think you're off to a flying start, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention the ultimate importance of a chapter dedicated to the finer points of dumping mud in the field.
Goosemaster
Well-known member
To be brutally honest, I rarely run anymore.Yes, senior citizen (& nearly senior citizen) pheasant hunters are known to be incredibly fast when there's a chance to shoot a rooster. Just like lightning.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
There were these 2 bulls. They were standing out in the pasture and the younger one says to the older one,,, hey dad let’s run down and poke one of them cows,,
The older one replies back ,,,nah son let’s walk down and poke them all!
Robert Duvall is great . I picture you more of a Paul Newman. Goose., Youre a real cool hand goose, a real cool hand.
Goosemaster
Well-known member
I think I told the story on here about my cousin stepping behind this farmer's house to dump The farmer's wife saw him, and we were not invited back...
Drew
Well-known member
This has been a very entertaining post. I have owned both pointers and flushers and have hunted beside them both my entire life. When I was a kid, my folks got a cocker spaniel as a house dog. I lived in eastern Oregon at the time in the 70's and 80's and there were lots of pheasants and quail. However there were stickers, burrs, cheatgrass and fox tails everywhere you went. I took that cocker spaniel hunting one day and it was an amazing hunting dog. It would get birdy, then it would freeze up for about 5 seconds or so and then it would pounce right in the middle of the bird or birds. It retrieved well too. The only problem was the fur on that dog attracted every possible sticker. It even had them in between its toes. If it wasn't for that drawback, I would probably still hunt with a cocker spaniel. I have never been more entertained by a dog that that one.
I have owned several labs and liked them all, however in thick cover and running birds, I would lose sight of the dog and suddenly it was on a runner and 50 yards out.
I owned a dratthaur once, and it was a fantastic hunting dog, however, it also like to hunt rabbits, deer, cats, skunks and racoons, porcupines and probably anything else it would come across. It was a top notch upland and waterfowl dog but, I never could break it's desire to kill skunks, porcupines and cats.
Right now I have a pointing griffon and a better all around dog, I have never been around. It's fur is incredibly resistant to anything stickery. It hunts 50 yards and in. It points well and slows down when scent gets stronger. It does kill a cottontail or two each year but I can live with that. Not to mention, it is a fantastic house dog.
I guess, this is the long way to say, I have tried all kinds of dogs and have enjoyed them all. The dog I have now is a pointer, but I didn't get her for that reason. I am not young anymore and I was tired of chasing my lab, so I googled "slow. methodical, hunting dog" and pointing griffon came up. One of these days I might need one even slower. Perhaps clumber spaniel.
I have owned several labs and liked them all, however in thick cover and running birds, I would lose sight of the dog and suddenly it was on a runner and 50 yards out.
I owned a dratthaur once, and it was a fantastic hunting dog, however, it also like to hunt rabbits, deer, cats, skunks and racoons, porcupines and probably anything else it would come across. It was a top notch upland and waterfowl dog but, I never could break it's desire to kill skunks, porcupines and cats.
Right now I have a pointing griffon and a better all around dog, I have never been around. It's fur is incredibly resistant to anything stickery. It hunts 50 yards and in. It points well and slows down when scent gets stronger. It does kill a cottontail or two each year but I can live with that. Not to mention, it is a fantastic house dog.
I guess, this is the long way to say, I have tried all kinds of dogs and have enjoyed them all. The dog I have now is a pointer, but I didn't get her for that reason. I am not young anymore and I was tired of chasing my lab, so I googled "slow. methodical, hunting dog" and pointing griffon came up. One of these days I might need one even slower. Perhaps clumber spaniel.
The answer is in the question itself…. Hunt 2 dogs….. if you want a good pointer don’t let him run up birds….let the flusher do that…. A good pointing dog isn’t going to put enough pressure on birds to get em up to speed most days. A good flusher is always watching for the pointing dogs stiff tail to go do his deal.
I’m sure there are endless variation on breeds for this but I have GSP’s for pointing and my 2 flushing dogs/dead bird dogs are a Chesapeake and a Springer. Takes a minute to get the team work down but get em in enough birds enough times and it can come together nicely.
Issues that arise:
Big running pointer spotted by undisciplined flusher …. Can’t close for the shot…. Fix this quick
Competitive pointers that don’t like getting upstaged by flusher….. fix this quick
Nothing worse than a big running, pheasant soured pointer when you go to quail hunt…until they know the difference it’s a hell of a cross training exercise.
My 2 cents anyway….
If forced to a one dog man I’d likely take the Chessie….. our temperaments are most inline, but I’d sure miss the pointing dogs.
I’m sure there are endless variation on breeds for this but I have GSP’s for pointing and my 2 flushing dogs/dead bird dogs are a Chesapeake and a Springer. Takes a minute to get the team work down but get em in enough birds enough times and it can come together nicely.
Issues that arise:
Big running pointer spotted by undisciplined flusher …. Can’t close for the shot…. Fix this quick
Competitive pointers that don’t like getting upstaged by flusher….. fix this quick
Nothing worse than a big running, pheasant soured pointer when you go to quail hunt…until they know the difference it’s a hell of a cross training exercise.
My 2 cents anyway….
If forced to a one dog man I’d likely take the Chessie….. our temperaments are most inline, but I’d sure miss the pointing dogs.
AKSkeeter
Well-known member
I started with pointers (English setters then Vislas) and then black labs.
I prefer the versatility of black labs and often hunt them way out of gun range like a pointer in big country.
When the lab gets birdy I use the vibrate function on the ecollar to sit the lab and move in position for the flush.
For huns, sharptails, a far ranging lab is much better than a lab that is always within gun range.
Big country and finding birds is a function of how wide the dog is searching.
On extremely steep slopes like blue grouse eating mountain ash berries on steep avalanche chutes,
I let my lab track way out of range. The slope is so steep, the grouse always flush down for exciting overhead shooting.
On steep chukar slopes, the same...the flush down as the lab tracks up the steep slopes.
Another example is scattered hawthorn bushes on a south facing slope....I let my lab hunt out of gun range and
the blue grouse flush from eating hawthorn berries headed to the douglas fir trees on the north-facing slope
for exciting crosser and overhead shots.
Where labs really shine is roosters in cattails. I can predict the direction of the running rooster by hearing
the crashing lab and hustle ahead to be in position when the rooster flushes.
I often hunt small spring creeks for roosters, and I love it when the lab scents pheasant and slides into the creek
swimming to the otherside and flushes a rooster towards me.
Other times I want my lab to sit behind while I walk into a cut bank of a spring creek to jump-shoot ducks.
The best thing about a seasoned lab is the ability to track a cripple while I stay silent.
It may take 20 minutes, but typically the lab comes back with the cripple.
The other thing I like about labs is training is easy with a couple of bumpers and they are so versatile...
everything from doves to geese.
I prefer the versatility of black labs and often hunt them way out of gun range like a pointer in big country.
When the lab gets birdy I use the vibrate function on the ecollar to sit the lab and move in position for the flush.
For huns, sharptails, a far ranging lab is much better than a lab that is always within gun range.
Big country and finding birds is a function of how wide the dog is searching.
On extremely steep slopes like blue grouse eating mountain ash berries on steep avalanche chutes,
I let my lab track way out of range. The slope is so steep, the grouse always flush down for exciting overhead shooting.
On steep chukar slopes, the same...the flush down as the lab tracks up the steep slopes.
Another example is scattered hawthorn bushes on a south facing slope....I let my lab hunt out of gun range and
the blue grouse flush from eating hawthorn berries headed to the douglas fir trees on the north-facing slope
for exciting crosser and overhead shots.
Where labs really shine is roosters in cattails. I can predict the direction of the running rooster by hearing
the crashing lab and hustle ahead to be in position when the rooster flushes.
I often hunt small spring creeks for roosters, and I love it when the lab scents pheasant and slides into the creek
swimming to the otherside and flushes a rooster towards me.
Other times I want my lab to sit behind while I walk into a cut bank of a spring creek to jump-shoot ducks.
The best thing about a seasoned lab is the ability to track a cripple while I stay silent.
It may take 20 minutes, but typically the lab comes back with the cripple.
The other thing I like about labs is training is easy with a couple of bumpers and they are so versatile...
everything from doves to geese.
TomU
Active member
AKSkeeter said, "On extremely steep slopes like blue grouse eating mountain ash berries on steep avalanche chutes,
I let my lab track way out of range. The slope is so steep, the grouse always flush down for exciting overhead shooting.
On steep chukar slopes, the same...the flush down as the lab tracks up the steep slopes."
I like the way you think! I'll have to give that a try.
I let my lab track way out of range. The slope is so steep, the grouse always flush down for exciting overhead shooting.
On steep chukar slopes, the same...the flush down as the lab tracks up the steep slopes."
I like the way you think! I'll have to give that a try.
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
I grew up hunting behind flushing dogs. We didn't kill many birds because the dogs were usually too far out and we didn't know what we were doing. Did many miles of sprints as the dogs got on scent.
Moved to Indiana and got invited to quail hunt with some good ol' boys who brought along a famous hunting basketball coach. They ran 7 or 8 English Setters. We hunted reclaimed coal mines in SW Indiana. Big areas of grass and thickets. To that point the only time I had seen pointing dogs was on Curt Gowdy's American Sportsman TV show.
The first points I saw i was sold. It was the coolest thing I had ever seen hunting.
For the types of hunting I do now, mostly ditches, filter strips, small patches of CRP, I love having a pointer. When a dog running full speed snaps on point the excitement is the best thing about the trip. I still duck hunt a little, so have always gotten versatile hunting dogs, but always dogs that point.
And I have never liked that lab's whippy tail that knocks stuff off the table, or the oily coat that ends up stinking to high heaven. I've learned what I want more over time. I was young and more stupid when i got my first dog. I've gotten progressively smaller dogs and one's that are easier to live with in the house, at least somewhat.
Wife wants pets but i have one rule, if we have a dog it has to hunt and if it hunts it's going to point.
Moved to Indiana and got invited to quail hunt with some good ol' boys who brought along a famous hunting basketball coach. They ran 7 or 8 English Setters. We hunted reclaimed coal mines in SW Indiana. Big areas of grass and thickets. To that point the only time I had seen pointing dogs was on Curt Gowdy's American Sportsman TV show.
The first points I saw i was sold. It was the coolest thing I had ever seen hunting.
For the types of hunting I do now, mostly ditches, filter strips, small patches of CRP, I love having a pointer. When a dog running full speed snaps on point the excitement is the best thing about the trip. I still duck hunt a little, so have always gotten versatile hunting dogs, but always dogs that point.
And I have never liked that lab's whippy tail that knocks stuff off the table, or the oily coat that ends up stinking to high heaven. I've learned what I want more over time. I was young and more stupid when i got my first dog. I've gotten progressively smaller dogs and one's that are easier to live with in the house, at least somewhat.
Wife wants pets but i have one rule, if we have a dog it has to hunt and if it hunts it's going to point.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Only on command.
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
How do you train that?
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
They have to have a good whoa and then a release command. Very handy but it takes a good dog with some time on them usually to do it right. I've always tried to train them to whoa, let me come past them if needed, then release them to hunt to me again then stop. Releasing them to go ahead and flush seems to be more useful in the quail thickets where only a dog is going to make it but I've had situations on pheasants as well. Now I say I train for that but it doesn't always go that way and it takes a good dog to grasp what you're trying to do. You don't want them to start doing it on their own
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Check cord (long leash) is the old standby. Some voltage if you like that sort of thing.
Some dogs just don’t like pressure from behind and you can just walk around in front of the dog and hopefully behind the bird until they get the idea that if they are patient they get feathers in their mouth.