Party hunting pheasants in Iowa?

[Chestle]

Yes quail are harder to sex than pheasant while hunting. However, the taking of quail hens never used to hurt the overall quail population. Of course, that was back when we had the fence row weeds, crop diversity, etc.

Quail, like everything else now, are suffering population wise but it's not because we still shoot quail hens. It's because the habitat sucks, the weather has been crappy during the hatch and then there's the unknowns about the various chemicals being used.

 

[Birdman2]

Recently I was reading in the Regs either in KS, IA, or ND, outfitters can't bring clients and hunt on public ground. I can remember times where busses would pull up to public grounds in KS and they would start the party hunting. Anybody else remember seeing that? Bet that isn't done anymore. Clients would demand their money back due to the lack of birds.

 

[birddude]

Roosters and Hens. Both legal to bag if they're quail but not if they're pheasant. Why is that?

Years ago I read a bit in Nebraskaland magazine I believe where one of the state biologists said it wouldn't make any difference in the bird population if hens were legal. He used the quail as an example.

I suspect he's right IF the habitat is very good and the weather is as well. Neither of those conditions seem to prevail lately anyhow.

Quail mate and stay mated with both sitting on eggs and protecting the chicks. Monogamous? Pheasants are not, so a rooster ill breed many hens a quail 1.

 

[remy3424]

Sounds like the quail population could benefit from a shorter season, less pressure to go with less habitat.

 

[birddude]

Sounds like the quail population could benefit from a shorter season, less pressure to go with less habitat.

All state ground has lowered the limit from 8 to 5. They also have done the same thing with quail season that they did with the grouse season. Took two weeks off the end and added it to the front to help the winter mortality. Then grouse basically went extinct here and they left the season open for years??

 

[Chestle]

Quail mate and stay mated with both sitting on eggs and protecting the chicks. Monogamous? Pheasants are not, so a rooster ill breed many hens a quail 1.

Quail cockbirds being monogamous and sitting on nests hens vs pheasant cocks being polygamous skirt chasers that won't sit a nest doesn't seem to affect the population of either species.

The taking or not taking of hens of either species doesn't really seem to make much difference.

Quail hens have been shot/taken for literally generations, yet when conditions are right (habitat/weather/chemical use/predation/etc) we have great quail hunting.

It's the same with pheasant; when conditions are right, we have great pheasant hunting.

 

[Birdman2]

Same thing in TN. We still have a Grouse season with very few left. Also we have a quail season, with little to no birds. They have shortened the Quail season also. Our Twra ignored calls for help for the birds. They were more interested in big game. So for the guys that are always quoting Biologist. Remember they are smart ones and some not so smart, like every profession.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Same thing in TN. We still have a Grouse season with very few left. Also we have a quail season, with little to no birds. They have shortened the Quail season also. Our Twra ignored calls for help for the birds. They were more interested in big game. So for the guys that are always quoting Biologist. Remember they are smart ones and some not so smart, like every profession.

Shortening the seasons won't help. It's all about habitat with upland birds. Here in Kansas we have less than half of the habitat we had 50 years ago. And what habitat we have left has changed. Dozers cleaned out old homesteads that concentrated birds with brush and is now in wheat and beans, timber cleared, fescue took over, etc. They won't come back unless you give them something to come back to. NR's and residents lease for deer hunting putting in food plots that provide no cover for game. Deer have the ability to survive anywhere and have less predators chasing them. Upland birds need cover to escape coyotes, foxes, bobcats, feral cats, hawks, owls, etc. Armadillos, skunks, coons, etc all raid nests so adequate cover is needed. Unless you can convence landowners to plant crp, or just leave 10 % of their ground idle, it won't be long til we fish year round. I just got back from Iowa, and if a farmer would just leave 4 feet on each side of a fence row, birds would have an excellent place to winter. Kansas is over ran with cattle. It's unbelievable the amount of hay sitting in fields. So greedy they bail the state owned ditches. On highways, some times the state owns 50-75 yds on each side and it is scalped. All chances to put a little back.

 

[Birdman2]

West, I agree 1000%. Habitat is everything.

 

[CDUBS]

I have to assume that it is due to hen & rooster quail are pretty hard to differentiate between in hunting situations, where pheasants are quiite easy for MOST to recognize. The PH article used rooster only harvest saying the population would stay the same after the next year's nesting. What I can't wrap my head around is in states where they release birds and they are shot about as fast as they are released...they allow hens to be harvested...why do they allow that? Are they not interested in getting a population established? I would think some of those hens would survive and reproduce...if not shot right off the trucks.

In Wisconsin we are able to shoot hens in some locations where birds are released. I was told the reason for this is that in Wisconsin:
A. The winters are too harsh for birds to successfully winter without the proper cover.
B. We don't have the nesting ground for them to reproduce anyway. Most public land in Wisconsin is Swamp and it's only public because it can't be farmed. We don't have the extensive flat land in Wisconsin similar to Iowa. We either have Hard Wood forest, Crop field or Swamp. Hardly anyone leaves anything in CRP.

Virtually all of the birds we hunt in Wisconsin are the year off releases. Very little if any carryover. This was the reasoning I was given anyway. I do think the comparison to Quale and Pheasants is like you said because of the easy distinction between the two.

 

[gimruis]

We either have Hard Wood forest, Crop field or Swamp

I agree, Wisconsin is not upland bird habitat. But it is tremendous deer habitat. Arguably some of the best in the entire country. Its also good turkey habitat.

 

[McFarmer]

“So greedy they bail the state owned ditches. On highways, some times the state owns 50-75 yds on each side and it is scalped. All chances to put a little back.”

Like many things, greed can be in the eye of the beholder.

I‘m certainly not saying my experience is universal but the folks I see baling ditches are generally smaller operations trying to get by, horse folks who don’t have enough to keep their hobby going or someone thinking they might make a quick buck. Large operations most likely wouldn’t depend on that for a feed source.

I do have a neighboring large operator that arranges for the ditches to be mowed and baled by local folks because his West Coast landowner likes to see the place kept neat. This would be three miles of ditches on one tract.

The best way to insure habitat is to acquire ownership of it and manage it for that purpose, my opinion. Someone who is going to divert productive land for wildlife use without compensation above farming it is a rare find. Even then it will need to be significantly above returns from farming it. Most operations don’t want to dick around with scattered wildlife plots. There is always the exception however.

 

[Chestle]

Yes, absolutely it is easier to distinguish a hen from a rooster pheasant than it is to tell a hen from a cock quail.

That's not the point I'm making.

My point is that for generations we have shot hen quail without damaging the quail population. It's not the shooting of hens that make quail scarce. Rather, as often discussed here, upland bird populations are really dependent upon conditions that are right for propagation (habitat/weather/chemical use/predation/etc.

I suspect making pheasant hens legal in the bag limit would not be the determinant factor in increasing/decreasing pheasant populations. Habitat, weather, etc. is the key. IMO.

 

[westksbowhunter]

“So greedy they bail the state owned ditches. On highways, some times the state owns 50-75 yds on each side and it is scalped. All chances to put a little back.”

Like many things, greed can be in the eye of the beholder.

I‘m certainly not saying my experience is universal but the folks I see baling ditches are generally smaller operations trying to get by, horse folks who don’t have enough to keep their hobby going or someone thinking they might make a quick buck. Large operations most likely wouldn’t depend on that for a feed source.

I do have a neighboring large operator that arranges for the ditches to be mowed and baled by local folks because his West Coast landowner likes to see the place kept neat. This would be three miles of ditches on one tract.

The best way to insure habitat is to acquire ownership of it and manage it for that purpose, my opinion. Someone who is going to divert productive land for wildlife use without compensation above farming it is a rare find. Even then it will need to be significantly above returns from farming it. Most operations don’t want to dick around with scattered wildlife plots. There is always the exception however.

McFarmer I don't know where you are from but here in Kansas there is an over abundance of hays. So much so that large bails have been sitting in CRP fields for 2 years, rotting. Driving the roads you see miles and miles of hay. Most of it seems to be going to Texas, but it is ridiculous to have emergency haying of Kansas CRP in a non drought year, and have the hay being shipped to Texas. Why bale hay on Kansas CRP when it is not being used in Kansas? Probably because some of the state representatives and senators own land in western Kansas. I understand that the last 2 years, millions of acres of CRP expired so much of it was baled but for the first time ever, I am seeing large bales stacked up with "For Sale" signs posted on them. They can't get rid of them. I just don't think all this hay is for a feed source for Kansas cattle. I think they can sell them in Texas for bigger money. This is what I see advertised locally, and this is just a few.
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[McFarmer]

As I’ve said before. When there is hay to be made it is in the DNA of livestock producers to make it. One never knows what tomorrow will bring.

I see the same thing, hay bales sitting for years. I say your beef (see what I did there) is with the policy makers, not the producers.

Now the policy makers see no downside to allowing the haying, make the producers happy and get the votes. Probably more producers than hunters.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Yes, probably more so with the policy makers. But what I see is, every way to take advantage of programs. For instance, a landowner wants the CRP money, but chomps at the bit for emergency haying, and still wants the WIHA money. If you take the emergency haying, then you should forfeit the WIHA money. Looked at a section of WIHA today, not a blade of grass, not one tree, and a one mile section all fenced with cattle. No one in their right mind would ever hunt it. But yet it is WIHA, and the land owner gets $6400 for the year of WIHA money and the property will never see a hunter. Those property's are a dime a dozen out here. I am sorry but that is greed. If you had 5 tracts 160 acres in all 105 counties state wide, you are talking close to $1,000,000 in WIHA money tossed away. I know in my county, there are way more than 5 tracts of WIHA that are worthless to hunting, and will not see a hunter on them all season. Hunters are starting to take pictures and send them in to the KDWP and to game officers to get them pulled out so landowners can't take advantage.

 

[McFarmer]

I guess we differ on the definition of greed. If a program is offered to a producer I don’t see it as greed to lawfully participate.

Again, ire may be best directed at the policy and policy makers.

 

[westksbowhunter]

I guess we differ on the definition of greed. If a program is offered to a producer I don’t see it as greed to lawfully participate.

Again, ire may be best directed at the policy and policy makers.

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[remy3424]

I suspect making pheasant hens legal in the bag limit would not be the determinant factor in increasing/decreasing pheasant populations. Habitat, weather, etc. is the key. IMO.

About once every year or two I witness a hen get shot...I just cringe and think that is maybe 5 less pheasants we won't have next year. I could never get behind shooting hens, I am sure it can't help populations, so it has to hurt them. If they would legalize shooting hens, I would say that someone wants to eliminate most of the population.

Habitat is needed, create some and you will have birds. Government is the best at this. Weather is the thing that is out of control that can practically eliminate populations, luckily locally it has been 15 years or so since we have had those condtions. We are better prepared when then it comes now....created better habitat, with more heavy cover including shrubs and conifers. WIll lose a lot, but not all, if we get 2 feet in an overnight wind blown snow storm. The catch is that you have to control land to create habitat.

Regarding the farming practices, they aren't necessarily greedy, but trying to survive with the tools and policies that have to operate within. The habitat is not important to 80% or so of the farmers, it makes little or no money....hard to pin this on the farmers. The government givith and taketh away.

 

[Chestle]

Well why hasn't shooting hen quail over the past 100 years or so eliminated that population?