No More Public Land

I hear this about SD walk-in areas a lot.Crappy habitat,not worth hunting,etc.This depends on where your hunting interests lie.A piece of land that we fez hunters use as an example of dollars wasted, may be holding a Mulie buck to die for.It happened this year,a 200 plus inch Mulie off walk in land in Lyman Co. that most people look at from the highway and keep driving.

If you look at the GFP record of procuring top-shelf public land in recent years,you can only say, Bravo.Take a look at the public land and walk in maps for SW SD and NW SD,for instance.They have made some great trades on some very significant pieces of prime land,and worked with aging landowners who did not want to see rampant development on their lands,to take those lands into public trust at very minimal cost.We don't tend to pay attention to those lands because there aren't a lot of fez on them,but if you happen to be the lucky dog who draws an elk tag,your going to be hunting some Fall River Co land that a lot of people would throw-down thousands for access to.

I think that we South Dakotans,with the financial assistance of you folks who drive out here every year and spend your money,do our part to provide access to quality public land to anyone who wants to come here and hunt,fish,dirt bike/ATV,climb,bicycle,hike etc.I suspect,in fact after living in Wi I know,we provide a lot more opportunity than most states.Keep that in mind as we demonize the GFP.

A lot of times these no net gain trades are for the benefit of recreational users.An example I can think of was a trade our Black Hills neighbor made on his ranch.As development approached his dairy farm,he traded a piece that was owned by the Forest Service,between his place and the development and not accessible to the public because it was landlocked,for a 120 acre piece of prime deer country that he owned which bordered the Natl Forest.If the Forest Service had been allowed to sell their piece at market value,the money would have been squandered and there would have been,pardon the pun,no net gain.

Rancho, I agree with much of what you say. I just have a hard time with anybody possibly "dictating" what can take place with a private land owners wishes, should they want their land to be kept wild and sell it to a conservation group or the state, with the thought of it remaining in it's natural state with public access in mind

How about this, if the state, local, or U.S. government can only own so much land. How about we limit private ownership also? I would be OK with that. Fair is fair
 
Rancho, I agree with much of what you say. I just have a hard time with anybody possibly "dictating" what can take place with a private land owners wishes, should they want their land to be kept wild and sell it to a conservation group or the state, with the thought of it remaining in it's natural state with public access in mind

How about this, if the state, local, or U.S. government can only own so much land. How about we limit private ownership also? I would be OK with that. Fair is fair

This seems a bit contradictory,on the one hand we want to respect the landowners wishes,on the other, we propose to limit the amount of land he can own?

The Feds are by far the largest landowner West of the Mississippi.All this land was available under the Homestead Act and a lot of it was homesteaded.When the homesteader found he was unable to live on 180 acres of wasteland,his choice was to try to sell it to another private individual,try to buy more of it in order to run cattle,or default on the homestead agreement and let the Feds have it back.The National Grasslands in SD are comprised almost entirely of abandoned Homestead Act lands.Remember that initially the whole Louisiana Purchase was Government land(putting aside the Native issue) and Thomas Jefferson and the other players wanted it to grow the Country,provide for private land ownership,and to lock-up it's vast natural resources.I think that all in all it's worked pretty well.

A lot of folks,me included,like to dogpile on the Environmental crazies,but,if you take,for instance,John Muir(founder of Sierra Club),the sheepherders were grazing Yosemite to the roots,causing incredible erosion.He,along with people like Theodore Roosevelt were visionaries and we owe them alot for having the courage to stand up.My point here is that it takes everyone to create a balance.(That's as close as I can come to being a fan of Roosevelt as his racism was extreme,even for his day and age).
 
This seems a bit contradictory,on the one hand we want to respect the landowners wishes,on the other, we propose to limit the amount of land he can own?

The Feds are by far the largest landowner West of the Mississippi.All this land was available under the Homestead Act and a lot of it was homesteaded.When the homesteader found he was unable to live on 180 acres of wasteland,his choice was to try to sell it to another private individual,try to buy more of it in order to run cattle,or default on the homestead agreement and let the Feds have it back.The National Grasslands in SD are comprised almost entirely of abandoned Homestead Act lands.Remember that initially the whole Louisiana Purchase was Government land(putting aside the Native issue) and Thomas Jefferson and the other players wanted it to grow the Country,provide for private land ownership,and to lock-up it's vast natural resources.I think that all in all it's worked pretty well.

A lot of folks,me included,like to dogpile on the Environmental crazies,but,if you take,for instance,John Muir(founder of Sierra Club),the sheepherders were grazing Yosemite to the roots,causing incredible erosion.He,along with people like Theodore Roosevelt were visionaries and we owe them alot for having the courage to stand up.My point here is that it takes everyone to create a balance.(That's as close as I can come to being a fan of Roosevelt as his racism was extreme,even for his day and age).

Who are the Feds? I would say it's us tax payers..all of ours.

Didn't the government give the rail roads millions of acres for building their tracks across the west? Nothing wrong with folks owning some land but when a single person as he puts in his own words, has a sickness to swallow up several million acres and lock it away for ones self. then saying, he's not done yet(check out top 100 land owners in America #1). I have a problem with folks like that, too much control by a small segment of the population becomes more of a dictatorship by their overwhelming amount of power and money. they run the government. I don't believe that those folks you speak of with the Homesteading act, had that kind of thing in mind. They wanted EVERYBODY to own some land. Not just a select few. More public land IMO only benefits everybody. There for us all to enjoy.
 
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Of course there's now a strong "cut my taxes" movement across the country...In order to promote this agenda, they call it "starve the beast", in other words, cut government spending in every way, federal, state, county and city. In their view, all government is evil and all capitalism is wonderful.

Most of these folks see environmental and land preservation expenditures as something evil. They don't hunt or fish, don't use national parks, and want those things done away with because it might lower their taxes by a few dollars.

They also want to privatize our public schools, privatize Medicare and Social Security, privatize highways and turn them all into for-profit businesses.

There's even a proposal to sell Yosemite to private interests for development.

God help us if the crazies succeed in destroying public ownership of everything.

TR is rolling in his grave.
 
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Of course there's now a strong "cut my taxes" movement across the country...In order to promote this agenda, they call it "starve the beast", in other words, cut government spending in every way, federal, state, county and city. In their view, all government is evil and all capitalism is wonderful.

Most of these folks see environmental and land preservation expenditures as something evil. They don't hunt or fish, don't use national parks, and want those things done away with because it might lower their taxes by a few dollars.

They also want to privatize our public schools, privatize Medicare and Social Security, privatize highways and turn them all into for-profit businesses.

There's even a proposal to sell Yosemite to private interests for development.

God help us if the crazies succeed in destroying public ownership of everything.

TR is rolling in his grave.

:thumbsup::cheers:

Question, would you rather drive by 50 miles of land privately owned, posted and inaccessible by the public or would you rather drive by 50 miles of public owned ground that is open to hunting, hiking, ATVing, snowmobiling, Etc?

The answers pretty simple to me. I LIKE PUBLIC OWNED LAND. It's massive tract's of land swallowed up by a single individual that I have a problem with.
 
Of course there's now a strong "cut my taxes" movement across the country...In order to promote this agenda, they call it "starve the beast", in other words, cut government spending in every way, federal, state, county and city. In their view, all government is evil and all capitalism is wonderful.

Most of these folks see environmental and land preservation expenditures as something evil. They don't hunt or fish, don't use national parks, and want those things done away with because it might lower their taxes by a few dollars.

They also want to privatize our public schools, privatize Medicare and Social Security, privatize highways and turn them all into for-profit businesses.

There's even a proposal to sell Yosemite to private interests for development.

God help us if the crazies succeed in destroying public ownership of everything.

TR is rolling in his grave.

Well you've done it again. Called me crazy. Told me I do not hunt, fish or care about the environment. Want to sell Yosemite etc. The old "bitterly clinging to guns and bibles" routine. Pretty hard to take given my presonal conservation efforts over the years. I belong to the IKES, the NRA and the TEA PARTY. The only crazies are the lefty tree hugging atheist elitist occuopiers who do not know how to spell Constitution. You try to paint with too large a brush to push a political agenda.

For those of you who do not know, the J bros and I have had these discussions before.
 
What's to say anything would be different if our gov't owned all our lands?

Would our politicians suddenly no longer take bribes or lobbyist $ because the gov't owns all our land? Of course they'll still be bought off. That's the nature of gov't since it's founding. Money and power. When it comes to gov't there's never enough.

Look at what our politicians did to us earlier this month with the signing of a bill/contract for purchasing 30,000 drones to patrol U.S. airspace (by 2020). $63 Billion was the price tag for a product used to watch you and I and everyone else in this country.

Why should we trust such people (entity) with 100% ownership of our lands who are willing to spend so much of our $ to watch/spy on us?

I think the answer lies within a balance consisting of public and private lands with a overdue reintroduction of laws passed after the dust bowl era in favor of habitat.
 
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Well you've done it again. Called me crazy. Told me I do not hunt, fish or care about the environment. Want to sell Yosemite etc. The old "bitterly clinging to guns and bibles" routine. Pretty hard to take given my presonal conservation efforts over the years. I belong to the IKES, the NRA and the TEA PARTY. The only crazies are the lefty tree hugging atheist elitist occuopiers who do not know how to spell Constitution. You try to paint with too large a brush to push a political agenda.

For those of you who do not know, the J bros and I have had these discussions before.

Chill out, Uncle Buck. You are reading words which I did not say. Of course I know that you hunt and fish and care about the environment. I don't care whether you're a Tea Party person or not, and I don't care whether you cling to your guns and Bibles. Those are your personal choices. I said nothing about YOU and nothing about the Tea Party. You missed the point. There are many people now demanding tax cuts of everything. Some of them are Tea Party, some are not.

What this group does have in common, is they want to cut everything which does not benefit them personally.

IF they do not hunt or fish, they want all tax money stopped for those activities.

IF they have no children in public schools, they want to get rid of teachers.

IF they are employed, they want to stop unemployment payments.

IF they are young, they want Medicare and Social Security taxes stopped.

IF
they care nothing about space exploration, they want NASA defunded.

and on and on.....
 
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Chill out, Uncle Buck. You are reading words which I did not say. Of course I know that you hunt and fish and care about the environment. I don't care whether you're a Tea Party person or not, and I don't care whether you cling to your guns and Bibles. Those are your personal choices. I said nothing about YOU and nothing about the Tea Party. You missed the point. There are many people now demanding tax cuts of everything. Some of them are Tea Party, some are not.

What this group does have in common, is they want to cut everything which does not benefit them personally.

IF they do not hunt or fish, they want all tax money stopped for those activities.

IF they have no children in public schools, they want to get rid of teachers.

IF they are employed, they want to stop unemployment payments.

IF they are young, they want Medicare and Social Security taxes stopped.

IF
they care nothing about space exploration, they want NASA defunded.

and on and on.....

:10sign: Hit the head on the proverbial nail on that post
 
Chill out, Uncle Buck. You are reading words which I did not say. Of course I know that you hunt and fish and care about the environment. I don't care whether you're a Tea Party person or not, and I don't care whether you cling to your guns and Bibles. Those are your personal choices. I said nothing about YOU and nothing about the Tea Party. You missed the point. There are many people now demanding tax cuts of everything. Some of them are Tea Party, some are not.

What this group does have in common, is they want to cut everything which does not benefit them personally.

IF they do not hunt or fish, they want all tax money stopped for those activities.

IF they have no children in public schools, they want to get rid of teachers.

IF they are employed, they want to stop unemployment payments.

IF they are young, they want Medicare and Social Security taxes stopped.

IF
they care nothing about space exploration, they want NASA defunded.

and on and on.....

Good post. In the spirit of not turning this into a nasty debate I will refrain from adding to this list.
 
Chill out, Uncle Buck. You are reading words which I did not say. Of course I know that you hunt and fish and care about the environment. I don't care whether you're a Tea Party person or not, and I don't care whether you cling to your guns and Bibles. Those are your personal choices. I said nothing about YOU and nothing about the Tea Party. You missed the point. There are many people now demanding tax cuts of everything. Some of them are Tea Party, some are not.

What this group does have in common, is they want to cut everything which does not benefit them personally.

IF they do not hunt or fish, they want all tax money stopped for those activities.

IF they have no children in public schools, they want to get rid of teachers.

IF they are employed, they want to stop unemployment payments.

IF they are young, they want Medicare and Social Security taxes stopped.

IF
they care nothing about space exploration, they want NASA defunded.

and on and on.....

A+ and they want it now.:10sign:
 
still lost

God help us if the crazies succeed in destroying public ownership of everything.

[/QUOTE]

Jnormanh asking God for help ?
I never thought I would see the day. Truth
 
Who are the Feds? I would say it's us tax payers..all of ours.

Didn't the government give the rail roads millions of acres for building their tracks across the west? Nothing wrong with folks owning some land but when a single person as he puts in his own words, has a sickness to swallow up several million acres and lock it away for ones self. then saying, he's not done yet(check out top 100 land owners in America #1). I have a problem with folks like that, too much control by a small segment of the population becomes more of a dictatorship by their overwhelming amount of power and money. they run the government. I don't believe that those folks you speak of with the Homesteading act, had that kind of thing in mind. They wanted EVERYBODY to own some land. Not just a select few. More public land IMO only benefits everybody. There for us all to enjoy.

Yes,of course Fed means public.I love having access to to those millions of acres but we need someone to pay the taxes to maintain it.That's where private ownership comes into play.I don't like the hording of land in the West,just for the sake of hording it,but you can't do anything about it in a society that treasures private ownership.Some could say that your house,no matter how modest,is way more than you need to get by.Would you be willing to share it? Or have to sell,or give it to the govt. or some other private individual because the govt made this determination?

Too much control by govt elitists is a far bigger threat than any private landowner.Talk about picking the winners and losers.Just look at the abuse to eminant domain since the latest Supreme Court ruling!You don't want the govt, either local,state,fed or New World Order having any more power than they already do over private land.

Also,with all it's problems,our country has more people of modest means who own house and property than any other on the planet.

Oh ya,the railroad,arguably, was worth the investment for the public good.Hell,I hunt the abandoned lines they still own,so it's still a good deal for me.
 
Chill out, Uncle Buck. You are reading words which I did not say. Of course I know that you hunt and fish and care about the environment. I don't care whether you're a Tea Party person or not, and I don't care whether you cling to your guns and Bibles. Those are your personal choices. I said nothing about YOU and nothing about the Tea Party. You missed the point. There are many people now demanding tax cuts of everything. Some of them are Tea Party, some are not.

What this group does have in common, is they want to cut everything which does not benefit them personally.

IF they do not hunt or fish, they want all tax money stopped for those activities.

IF they have no children in public schools, they want to get rid of teachers.

IF they are employed, they want to stop unemployment payments.

IF they are young, they want Medicare and Social Security taxes stopped.

IF
they care nothing about space exploration, they want NASA defunded.

and on and on.....

Then there are those of us,myself included,who just want to know how your going to pay for it?

We always make the assumption that if the Gov't just had more money,they'd spend it wisely.
 
Oh ya,the railroad,arguably, was worth the investment for the public good.Hell,I hunt the abandoned lines they still own,so it's still a good deal for me.

Just to let you know, hunting Rail Road land since the Patriot Act was implemented is a crime.

http://www.citizensforrailsecurity.com/law_enforcement.html

No trespassing

It is unlawful for anyone to enter or remain on railroad property without the consent of the owner. Not only is it dangerous, but walking on any railroad property is also against the law. Any person who crosses the tracks while the gates are down or even walks between the tracks is trespassing. Most trespassing deaths and injuries occur in or near major metropolitan areas or areas where significant railroad activity occurs, such as rail yards.

Police officers can prevent loss of life and catastrophic derailments by enforcing grade crossing laws. By monitoring crossings and enforcing grade crossing laws you play a big part in preventing death and injury.

The Railroad warns everyone to stay off the tracks and property by placing “No Trespassing” signs along railroad property.

Railroad police will provide written authorization to community police enabling them to enforce trespassing statutes on railway property.
Preventing terrorism

As you go about your daily patrol routine, you too can do your part in the prevention of any terrorist attack. When you receive a report of any out of the ordinary events or incident, you investigate it further.

If on Railroad property, you too can investigate it further and contact the ROCC for a railroad police officer in the area for assistance.

Every person can do their part in the prevention of any terrorist attack. Reporting out of the ordinary events or incidents so that a police officer can further investigate or look into the matter will determine if an act of terrorism could have been prevented.

Be on the lookout for activities such as unusual conduct in your neighborhood around railroad tracks and rail yards. Report and investigate suspicious packages, luggage or mail abandoned at railroad stations and along railroad tracks.
 
A+ and they want it now.:10sign:

I thought we were talking about land. Not social security, not un-employment,etc. I made a remark re who I was and I did not need to be lumped into your narrow view(J-Bro) of who is alledgedly calling for the destruction all public lands.
Of course everyone follows their own agenda---my point in the first place.
 
[QUOTE=onpoint;104828]Just to let you know, hunting Rail Road land since the Patriot Act was implemented is a crime.

http://www.citizensforrailsecurity.com/law_enforcement.htmlQUOTE]


I had know idea this was in the PA. It seems the more I learn about this act the more I despise it!!!

Thanks for posting.
 
Just to let you know, hunting Rail Road land since the Patriot Act was implemented is a crime.

http://www.citizensforrailsecurity.com/law_enforcement.html

No trespassing

It is unlawful for anyone to enter or remain on railroad property without the consent of the owner.QUOTE


As long as the owner consents you are good to go.I doubt the mighty Dakota Southern is at the top of the terror hit list.It's been abandoned since the 80's.

Politicians on both sides are real good about knowing what's best for us.The so-called Patriot Act was a joke.If you just saw the swank "Homeland Security" chopper that hovers over the campgrounds at Sturgis all week,it's occupants having stageside seats for the tittie shows,you'd sleep so much better.
 
Bottom line is that private land is great, if your a hunter and have access to it. Almost universally, the people I know, including myself, inherited the farmground they own. Maybe used the equity to add acres to the holdings. Largely a happy accident of birth, not some accquisition scheme, to own the world. Those "own the world guys", are out there, no doubt. My point is without land to hunt, people stop hunting. It's a true misfortune to be a hunter who has no land, and no access. Even those of us on the forum, who own land, either don't own enough to keep us busy, or travel for other species and hunt on public ground, WIHA, etc. Without public ground, there is no universal ability to hunt, irregardless if it's legality or the participants desire. How can there be such a thing as to much? If hunting is limited to the landholders, or the rich to buy access, it will vanish. Do you want to put your faith in the generousity of private landowners to allow access? Let's examine that, in South Dakota, a rural state with a larger than normal public land percentage, limits access to the public land for 10 days or 2 weeks or something like that, so the locals, who live there, and would interact with the landowners on a daily basis, can have a place to hunt because their neighbors don't allow it, or reserve it for sale to the highest bidder. If Joe who works on cars down at the garage in Huron, and known to be a reliable and likeable life long resident can't get access and relies on public hunting, what chance do you have? Local governments whining about lost tax revenue, doesn't impress me much, spending far exceeds value, whether in Missouri or South Dakota, Locals get outbid for ground? doubt it happens much, but even so, buyers get outbid all the time. All these claims are solvable. Agree to a higher tax base, we have that here in Missouri, no net loss in revenue to the county, Offer the opportunity to farm the acquisition to the neighboring farmers, at cash rent, long term. In all things there are winners and losers, the losers in the limitation on public ground it would seem obvious are sportsmen.
 
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Bottom line is that private land is great, if your a hunter and have access to it. Almost universally, the people I know, including myself, inherited the farmground they own. Maybe used the equity to add acres to the holdings. Largely a happy accident of birth, not some accquisition scheme, to own the world. Those "own the world guys", are out there, no doubt. My point is without land to hunt, people stop hunting. It's a true misfortune to be a hunter who has no land, and no access. Even those of us on the forum, who own land, either don't own enough to keep us busy, or travel for other species and hunt on public ground, WIHA, etc. Without public ground, there is no universal ability to hunt, irregardless if it's legality or the participants desire. How can there be such a thing as to much? If hunting is limited to the landholders, or the rich to buy access, it will vanish. Do you want to put your faith in the generousity of private landowners to allow access? Let's examine that, in South Dakota, a rural state with a larger than normal public land percentage, limits access to the public land for 10 days or 2 weeks or something like that, so the locals, who live there, and would interact with the landowners on a daily basis, can have a place to hunt because their neighbors don't allow it, or reserve it for sale to the highest bidder. If Joe who works on cars down at the garage in Huron, and known to be a reliable and likeable life long resident can't get access and relies on public hunting, what chance do you have?

This is just one of many reasons I support the legal hunting of public rights-of-way in SD.If Joe the mechanic gets turned down when he knocks on the door,he still has a place to hunt where he does not have to answer to anyone.My first question to out-of-staters who are anti is "How much are you willing to pay for a hunting license and access"?Just ban road hunting and see how much your license fees rise when the thousands of locals and out-of-staters who do it,stop coming.When you take Joe and his Bro from Mn Jack out of the game,common sense says the ones that have a place to hunt are left have to take up the slack.Besides,it's our business,so just take care of business at home.You know,live and let live.
 
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