Land price$$$$$$

Onpoint, you are on the point.

However, I'm not advocating hunting for free. Regardless of past homestead "freebies", the farmers now privately own their property so hunting access payment via a national easement/purchase program would be in order.

The only way to restore our National Pheasant Hunting Treasure is to permanently provide habitat and access by purchasing these from the landowner - similar to how the freeway system was built.

This would be a National Program but administered locally by the States with assistance from PF. 60 million acres of PERMANENT CRP grass should be the goal. And this would be an ASSET of OURS - not an expense.

Think of it as........... a NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE to passed down from one generation to the next......FOREVER.

See my recent posts in the thread about Trespass.
 
RK Special K, is it special or special:)? Interesting idea, how would you keep it off limits to haying, grazing etc and in perpetuity.

Heres another wrinkle, Have Archer Daniels Midland, Cargill, Monsanto, Dupont, Dow, Caterpillar, John Deere, Corn Growers Assn, Farm Bureau, all Ethanol Producers pay for 50% of it to actually show they really care and ag interests and big ag care instead of those ads with "original environmentalist" "original stewards of the land" "more corn grown on less acres in SDak" "smaller carbon footprint today" MISDIRECTION/DEFLECTION baloney ads they freakin air. We're not all gullible by those lines of half truths they spew, in other words put up or shut up.

Dan
 
Ofer2........

The same way we keep haying and grazing off from freeways........we own it and prohibit the pavement from being torn up.

The same with CRP. The Federal Government purchases 60 million acres of land for grass - NOTHING ELSE! A PERMANENT habitat/environmental Right-of-Way.

We take $200 billion in cash and substitute it for $200 billion in land. Not only are there tremendous benefits to us Americans environmentally and preserves our NATIONAL PHEASANT HUNTING TREASURE but it's a decent investment financially for all uf us. I'd rather own a piece of land than a dollar bill anytime.

It is NOT an expense. It's an ASSET - I call it the NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE. It "costs" us NOTHING. It probably gives us a decent return financially to boot!

Just plain old common sense!
 
onpoint said:
Quote
"The first of these, the Homestead Act, provided, in Carl Sandburg's words, "a farm free to any man who wanted to put a plow into unbroken sod."

How did a good share of long time resident land owners get their land?

Handed down from generation to generation...back to when their relatives "Homesteaded" it for "FREE"

Now when today's generation want's anything free, even to walk a piece of ground for a bird. They are called fee loaders, lazy, a weight on the system. "Free" is a dirty word...use it and you will be labeled a liberal but some won't talk about the "free" things they receive. That's different...and something we don't talk about or disclose how much "free" they get. What they get for "free" they deserve and it is right in their mind. What others get for "free" is flat out wrong.

People should learn to work on the "free" system of doing things more. It's amazing how much more pleasant it is.

A coarse a man is going to smile and treat you kindly when you just handed him $250 for the day to walk his land for a Pheasant.

Then you have the man who lets you hunt for "free", he smiles and treats you kindly

Which one do you think is more honest and meaningful?

The next time you b!tch about those who want things for free, maybe check back and see what great grandpa paid for that ground. Then you can call him a free loader too. Maybe they should have been told to go back home to Norway or Germany where they came from, like so many say to the Mexican's or any others who recently came to this country.

People want the money out of Washington politics but yet they covet the same greed themselves. We best all learn to not covet the mighty buck and pay more attention to being a descent human being to our fellow people. Doing some things for free just out of the generosity of ones heart. Does more to ones inter workings then money could ever do. Try it and try it often. It becomes easier and easier...and the joy greater with each time.

Land prices?

New Trespass Laws?

That should tell the atmosphere around here real quick and it does for some.
Click to expand...

Putting a plow to unbroken land around here had to be tough, with all the rocks we have. On our land there are several cellar holes from homesteaders sod houses. I don't know what percentage of the people that filed for a homestead actually made a go of it, but not all of them and for one reason or another over the years people have either threw in the towel or when they retired sold it. That trend is still continuing unfortunately. I have a 60 year old neighbor that has two sons that have no desire to farm so when he retires there will be one less farmer and a couple of other farms will get a little bigger. That has been going on since homesteading started. The people that are still here had determined and probably creative ancestors to get through the tough times. My grandmothers memoirs are full of hardship. Whether the land was homesteaded or purchased I believe those people earned it. Now the fruits of there labors are being rewarded and guys like me are benefiting from it. I am grateful.
 
60 million acres of CRP would completely restore pheasant hunting to the "glory days" in almost all of western pheasantland. Even the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles would be very good.

Just a small example: In NE Nebraska, pheasant numbers have dropped 85% in the past 25 years. With lots of grass, this area would again BOOM with pheasant hunters in the fall.

My gosh, if South Dakota had 2 million acres of CRP, we would have 3 million+ bird harvests almost every year. Limits would need to be raised to 6 per day, maybe more.

I hunted the extreme northern part of this area in 2007. I barely got a limit after hunting HARD all day. But today, I wouldn't bother with it - it's down 50-75% from 2007. The reason - continual loss of CRP. (The southern area(even in 2007) was too intensely farmed to hold birds - Norfolk area - not worth hunting).
 
RK Special K said:
Ofer2........

The same way we keep haying and grazing off from freeways........we own it and prohibit the pavement from being torn up.

The same with CRP. The Federal Government purchases 60 million acres of land for grass - NOTHING ELSE! A PERMANENT habitat/environmental Right-of-Way.

We take $200 billion in cash and substitute it for $200 billion in land. Not only are there tremendous benefits to us Americans environmentally and preserves our NATIONAL PHEASANT HUNTING TREASURE but it's a decent investment financially for all uf us. I'd rather own a piece of land than a dollar bill anytime.

It is NOT an expense. It's an ASSET - I call it the NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE. It "costs" us NOTHING. It probably gives us a decent return financially to boot!

Just plain old common sense!
Click to expand...

I guess I don't see how this could ever be a good business decision for America. I would hate to think about what taking 60 million acres off of local property tax roles would do to the rural school systems and the cost of controling noxious weeds on those acres. Not to mention what it would do to the cost of food everywhere. This may help some middle class guys be able to hunt for free but I think it would cost the middle class and poor a lot more than it would ever help.
 
Wirehairs said:
and the cost of controling noxious weeds on those acres.
Click to expand...


Were all you folks born with a chemical sprayer? Do you think they spray for weeds on the millions of acres of wilderness in Canada? I have lived in Minnesota my whole life, from 30 miles south of the metro to near the Canadian boarder. I have NEVER! been told or required to control weeds on one single place. I think people have went bonkers on this spray weeds thing. Learn to live with the weeds. They are part of the natural prairie. I'm sure they were there when the settlers rolled across in their wagons. I have farmed for near 20 years and I have never owned a sprayer or sprayed anything.
 
Thank heaven we all weren't born with a sprayer! All these "farmers" had to be taught to spray by the land grant universities who developed it, and the chemical companies who enjoy the profits. We showed them the way in the 1920's , remember the " rain follows the plow", according to the president of Kansas University! Got us the dust bowl, and 10 years of reprogramming to make them stop! We forgot all that now, the mantra is, " we are so technically advanced, that this won't happen again." Tiling doesn't cause water issues, chemicals are better because we use less yield per acre spray than we did 20 years ago, we need artificial fertilizer, because we have quadrupled the seed in an acre, and of course we need those certified gene spliced hybrids, to grow, so we can pay 10,000 and acre for land and have a chance to justify it over a long night of lamp oil to work under.
 
Sprayers, Brush hogs and mowers. All have been a disaster to our North American pheasant populations. :eek:
 
I don't know. I am in process of establishing 200 new CRP acres and the grass does not stand a chance without setting back the weeds via mechanical or herbicide weed control. I am getting away from the chemicals and going mechanical. I also had to clip quite of few acres of existing CRP that had canadian thistle in it pretty bad. I don't think "letting it go" is a good management practice for thistle.
 
Wirehairs.......

There have to be compromises to accomplish a reasonable balance and a greater good.

!. Buying our own land for conservation/habitat/hunting is that compromise to all-out aggressive farming methods that only have lower costs and higher profits as a motive. Nothing wrong with this but we should have some other considerations and priorities that protect the environment and restore and preserve our NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE. Private enterprise has very little motive to help with this. Compared to everything else we piss money away on, I'll put this use of OUR tax dollars in the top 5%.

2. Let's provide price support to farmers in a way that provides us taxpayers a benefit and return. The farm aid programs today are a farse. So is Ethanol. The soil bank years stabilized the soil AND provided price support to crops AND created tremendous hunting(A NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE).

3. Weeds are GOOD! We had them in soil bank years - let the farmers spray all they want on crops. That's what Roundup is for.

4. Nothing is "free". Remember, WE take OUR tax dollars and purchase OUR land. Got it? I'm talking about restoring and maintaining tremendous hunting opportunities in America. The hunting iceberg we are floating on is shrinking in the equator sun. With the projected course we are on, except for VERY, VERY tiny isolated pockets, wild pheasant hunting in America WILL BE GONE in less than 50 years.
 
You can bash all the weed control you want, but anyone that thinks all weeds are good for birds needs to be educated. Do you even know what noxious weeds are? They are the weeds that take over and choke everything else out. I would love to see you hunt some leafy spurge, or hoarycress. Even better find me a pheasant nest in a patch of Bindweed or Canada Thistle. These weeds kill the grass that you cherish. Even pheasants forever controls these invasive weeds in their projects. If you are going to establish grass you are going to have to control them otherwise no grass. Yes it is that simple. Even the organic farmer knows you have to control noxious weeds or you have nothing. This weed isn't a noxious weed but does anyone like hunting sandburs?


The bigger point though, that most have seemed to miss, because the vast majority of you wanting this land grab don't live where it would take place is, the federal or state government will not pay local property taxes and now our rural schools are really up the creek without a paddle.
 
onpoint said:
Were all you folks born with a chemical sprayer? Do you think they spray for weeds on the millions of acres of wilderness in Canada? I have lived in Minnesota my whole life, from 30 miles south of the metro to near the Canadian boarder. I have NEVER! been told or required to control weeds on one single place. I think people have went bonkers on this spray weeds thing. Learn to live with the weeds. They are part of the natural prairie. I'm sure they were there when the settlers rolled across in their wagons. I have farmed for near 20 years and I have never owned a sprayer or sprayed anything.
Click to expand...

I don't believe I said a single thing about chemical, I said CONTROL. Perhaps you could reread what I wrote. In all your 20 years of farming have you never mowed, cultivated, disc or plowed? Those things cost money also. If you have never controlled a single weed I would venture a pretty strong guess your farming operation has been a success making you happy(which is honestly the most important thing) and you feel good about it, but it hasn't returned finacially enough to expand the operation and conserve a couple thousand acres in the old pheasant range of southern MN or NW IA. If you have never had a noxious weed on your land good for you. If you have and haven't done anything about shame on you and if you had them and were never given notice to your county weed inspector should be fired.
 
Wirehairs said:
I don't believe I said a single thing about chemical, I said CONTROL. Perhaps you could reread what I wrote. In all your 20 years of farming have you never mowed, cultivated, disc or plowed? Those things cost money also. If you have never controlled a single weed I would venture a pretty strong guess your farming operation has been a success making you happy(which is honestly the most important thing) and you feel good about it, but it hasn't returned finacially enough to expand the operation and conserve a couple thousand acres in the old pheasant range of southern MN or NW IA. If you have never had a noxious weed on your land good for you. If you have and haven't done anything about shame on you and if you had them and were never given notice to your county weed inspector should be fired.
Click to expand...

We don't have a county weed inspector:laugh:
 
onpoint said:
We don't have a county weed inspector:laugh:
Click to expand...

Yes you do, there is one in every MN county, educate yourself.


Minnesota Noxious Weed Law



The Noxious Weed Law affects growing plants. Some plants are noxious because they can harm people, animals, the food we eat, and nature. County, city, and township officials inspect land and ask owners to destroy their noxious weeds. Destroying them stops them from spreading and harming neighbors. Land owners that refuse to destroy their noxious weeds can be forced to do so.

Laws & Rules:
■Minnesota Noxious Weed Law. Minnesota Statutes, sections 18.75 to 18.88 (PDF: 1.25 MB / 10 pages)

Noxious Weeds:
■Twenty-six plant species are regulated as noxious weeds and specially regulated plants in Minnesota (PDF: 430 KB / 2 pages). There are currently 21 species on the prohibited noxious weed list ? 11 on the eradicate list and 10 on the control list. These species must be eradicated or controlled on all lands within the state;
■4 species are on the restricted noxious weed list and cannot be sold or transported without a permit in the state; and,
■1 species is on the specially regulated plants list and eradication or control can be enforced under specific conditions.
■Identification of noxious weeds in Minnesota

County, City &Township Officials:
■A County Agricultural Inspector/County Designated Employee must be appointed by law for each of the states? 87 counties by the board of commissioners. These inspectors also assist the Minnesota Department of Agriculture with laws regarding seeds, feeds, fertilizers, pesticides, and plant pests.
■Local Weed Inspectors are the mayors in the states? 861 cities and the supervisors on the states? 1,788 township boards. An assistant weed inspector may be appointed by the city mayor or the township board to act in their behalf as local weed inspectors.
 
Wirehairs.......

I agree that "modern" CRP together with its special mixes and management techniques is better than the old fallow field soil bank cover. But let's face it, we a LOT of birds during those years so it had VERY possitive effects. Has the weed problem gotten worse since then? Invasive weeds may have taken hold - I agree.

If we've figured out how to "supercharge" the grass habitat by controlling weeds, I'm all for it. So just like freeways need maintenance, so would the Federal CRP program.

I don't agree with the term "land grab". That implies "stealing". Property is purchased at fair market value for the greater common good of all. Some compromises HAVE to be made between all interests that are affected based upon the benefits and costs.

Our habitat is SURELY disappearing. It began in the East. Iowa and large parts of other states "out that way", have also now surrendered the "treasure". A good example is NE Nebraska. Not to long ago, this was a great destination for fall pheasant hunting. Those 5-10 counties are now practically dead. The I-29 corridor in SD is losing the battle. It's like a cancer, spreading east to west. The island IS slowly but SURELY shrinking.

What's your plan?
 
Wirehairs said:
Yes you do, there is one in every MN county, educate yourself.


Minnesota Noxious Weed Law



The Noxious Weed Law affects growing plants. Some plants are noxious because they can harm people, animals, the food we eat, and nature. County, city, and township officials inspect land and ask owners to destroy their noxious weeds. Destroying them stops them from spreading and harming neighbors. Land owners that refuse to destroy their noxious weeds can be forced to do so.

Laws & Rules:
■Minnesota Noxious Weed Law. Minnesota Statutes, sections 18.75 to 18.88 (PDF: 1.25 MB / 10 pages)

Noxious Weeds:
■Twenty-six plant species are regulated as noxious weeds and specially regulated plants in Minnesota (PDF: 430 KB / 2 pages). There are currently 21 species on the prohibited noxious weed list ? 11 on the eradicate list and 10 on the control list. These species must be eradicated or controlled on all lands within the state;
■4 species are on the restricted noxious weed list and cannot be sold or transported without a permit in the state; and,
■1 species is on the specially regulated plants list and eradication or control can be enforced under specific conditions.
■Identification of noxious weeds in Minnesota

County, City &Township Officials:
■A County Agricultural Inspector/County Designated Employee must be appointed by law for each of the states? 87 counties by the board of commissioners. These inspectors also assist the Minnesota Department of Agriculture with laws regarding seeds, feeds, fertilizers, pesticides, and plant pests.
■Local Weed Inspectors are the mayors in the states? 861 cities and the supervisors on the states? 1,788 township boards. An assistant weed inspector may be appointed by the city mayor or the township board to act in their behalf as local weed inspectors.
Click to expand...

Well, if so. none of my neighbors or I have ever seen him/her in the past 20 plus years. I say job well done. Give the man/women a raise. :cheers:
 
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I was a DNR forester for 34 years in MN. Did you know that poison ivy is a noxious weed, and who sprays for that in all of the roadsides? Ummmm hardly anyone unless the adjoining individual does. Some counties, mostly northern, use the county land commissioner as the county weed inspector.

Obviously spurge, certain thistles, spotted knapweed and others MUST be sprayed in ag areas, whether or not all landowners do or individual weed inspectors show up or not can vary.

Have you also seen the ads by DOW "discussing" herbicide tolerance (glyphosate) to Round-Up? In other words this chemical has promoted rapid mutation and adaptation of many weeds. So once again being so reliant on one treatment has caused major changes to the negative, whether you are trying to control weeds or not which hurts ALL of us and ALL the land.

Even the Sand Lake USFWS Sand Lake Wetland Mgmt District (most of NE SDak) has begun to let Round-Up ready crops be planted on the upland portions of their WMAs in order to set back brome and bluegrass.

They could have used buckwheat or rye without the round up ready crops. IDIOTS. They went with the easy and ag promoted route. I have yet to see the USFWS do it anywhere else in MN SDak or NDak

Dan
 
SDJIM said:
How can CRP rent at about $140 an acre compete with that? --it can't and that is very sad---$7200 an acre--WOW:eek:
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Jim, I think CRP rent completes more closely with cash rent. I am not sure cash rent has hit $140 in our area yet but probably could be getting close..

On a side note I was looking at selling a small parcel for buildable site. Maybe 7-8 acres right on the highway. Was flabergasted to learn that a local realtor said if you sell it in a 40 with some farmland you could sell at $6000/acre. If you just sell the 8 acre piece probably about $3500/acre. ??????

Thats bassackwards where I come from. Usually as parcels reduce in size price per acre increases.

Makes no sense as if it is included with surrounding acres it is worth $6K/acre.

As always it is always about what the market will pay.
 
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